Building a house without a hammer

[ElfiePoo 109]

If you were building a house and had a hammer in your toolbox, but someone locked it away and wouldn't let you use it...would you passively accept it and continue to try to build that house without the hammer, knowing you were eventually doomed to failure and, worse, blaming yourself because "if you just tried harder" you could've built that house without the hammer? I doubt it.

Then why do so many people here passively accept that their doctors 'lock away' the very tool they obviously needed to lose this weight and keep it off instead of demanding that the doctor 'unlock' that tool?

It is obvious from the numerous postings on this board and others regarding the practices of numerous doctors that you don't need to wait months for your first fill, nor does there have to be months between fills. On almost every single site related to the band, it says that fills are deemed necessary based on the amount of restriction and the degree of hunger.

So, if you are hungry...and you have no restriction meaning you can eat to excess...and most particularly if you are eating to excess...talk to your doctor and demand an explanation for why you have paid so much and gone through so much, taking on the risks of surgery and having a foreign object implanted in your body, if you're still required to lose weight and keep it off in the same manner you did prior to surgery.

Take control...and if you have a doctor who won't work with you...find another one. They are not God and they aren't irreplaceable.

.

[soocalchic 1,087]

I need to chime in on this one. All doctors have different approaches when it comes to fills. Just like they do with post op diets. Some doctors are conservative and slowly get you to your sweet spot while others want to get you there as fast as possible. Now with that said, people do your homework figure out what your doctors MO is. Prior to surgery i asked my surgeon a ton of questions and i researched the lapband very arduously. My surgeon was actually impressed with all the questions i asked of him. He was like "wow you did do your research". I told him that i like to be an informed buyer that i wouldn't buy a car with out figuring out if it was satisfactory to my needs and expectations, and I wasn't going to have something implanted in me wiothout doing the same. The OP stated that you should fire your doctor if he doesnt comply with filling you as often as you would like. Keep in mind that he is the doctor not you and that he knows best.

[ElfiePoo 109]

The OP stated that you should fire your doctor if he doesnt comply with filling you as often as you would like. Keep in mind that he is the doctor not you and that he knows best.

Actually, that is not what I said. I said that you should fire your dictor *if* you are hungry and have no restriction and *if* he is more concerned with sticking to his arbitrary policies and not listening to his patient...who knows their body better than anyone else can.

The doctor always knows best? Hmmm...my husband's first wife died of breast cancer because she took that approach. Her doctor wrote in her chart that she was imagining that 'lump' in her breast and was just a post-pregnant woman looking for attention.

By the time she learned that the doctor doesn't always 'know' what's best and went to another doctor, the cancer had metastisized to her spine and brain. She died when her sons were only 2 and 3 years old.

No, the doctor doesn't always know what's best but too many people put them on pedestals and assume that 'if the doctor said it, then it must be right.'

The band is a tool...not a placebo. If you're making good food choices...If you're hungry...If you have no restriction and are able to eat to excess...then there is no reason you should have to wait six weeks for a fill just because that's your doctor's 'policy'.

.

[Mimilou2004 13]

Elfie, I agree with you and wish you had written your post a year ago. My surgeon has a God complex and a 6 week rule. Had I been more ballsy I would have fired him a long time ago. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars and 14 months later I finally got restriction.....ridiculous.

Mimi

[JoJo1 0]

I also believe Doctors are not God. Someone suggested in another thread that they are out to get the money, and even though not all of them are, some definitely are. Who knows, maybe a lot of them are. Anyway, we as overweight individuals, are often less forceful because we think we are not worth it. That is hard to overcome. In my case, my Doc have me more of a fill than I thought was standard. It turned out to be perfect, so thumbs up to him.

[soocalchic 1,087]

Actually, that is not what I said. I said that you should fire your dictor *if* you are hungry and have no restriction and *if* he is more concerned with sticking to his arbitrary policies and not listening to his patient...who knows their body better than anyone else can.

The doctor always knows best? Hmmm...my husband's first wife died of breast cancer because she took that approach. Her doctor wrote in her chart that she was imagining that 'lump' in her breast and was just a post-pregnant woman looking for attention.

By the time she learned that the doctor doesn't always 'know' what's best and went to another doctor, the cancer had metastisized to her spine and brain. She died when her sons were only 2 and 3 years old.

No, the doctor doesn't always know what's best but too many people put them on pedestals and assume that 'if the doctor said it, then it must be right.'

The band is a tool...not a placebo. If you're making good food choices...If you're hungry...If you have no restriction and are able to eat to excess...then there is no reason you should have to wait six weeks for a fill just because that's your doctor's 'policy'.

.

So what are your qualifications to argue with a doctors policies? I'm not looking for an argument, It is true that you should listen to your body. But as we all know we are a society that is focused on instant gratification. Sadly I think thats what your mentality is based on. I question some of you becauseI feel that If you think your doctor is not a good one why are you still seeing him? It's an unfortunate thing that happened to your hubbys exwife. But we are not talking about cancer here. Were talking about a band beeing progressively filled to give you less room in your tummy to fill. I think that we banded folk need to learn how to use our tool and that takes time. There are alot of bandsters on here who have had complications because they never adapted to their new way of eating. Most of them live with an overly tight band, product of beeing filled too fast. How many pbs have you had? Why do you think that might have happened? Hmmm.. Along with the band beeing used as a tool there has to be some sort of behavioral adjustment. What do you think?

[LollyMoe 1]

As a retired nurse that has worked with many different doctors and interns, I can certainly tell you one fact.....doctors don't always know best. Most of them do the best they can under any given circumstances. The medical field is so huge now, it's hard to keep up even in their own specialty field. Some have the God complex, especially surgeons & neurosurgeons, some have horrible bedside personalities and treat nurses like dirt. However, there are many many physicians that really care about the quality of their work and the comfort of the patient. They want to educate the patient and will take the time to do so, either themselves or with a PAC's help. Some are actually smart enough to listen to a nurse's theory on a matter. Some are just plain dumb too! They are smart with the books but hands-on care is terrible.

As a patient, you have rights. The right to ask questions & receive answers. If he/she can't answer your questions, you have the right to ask them to find out the answers for you. Don't assume anything. Educate yourself. In this day & age, the internet is a very valuable tool.

Remember, you have rights...it's your body.

[ElfiePoo 109]

So what are your qualifications to argue with a doctors policies?

My qualifications are that I am an intelligent human being who ultimately has the total responsibility for any care this body receives. It is my responsibility to do all the research I can (and the doctor is one of those research tools) and make the final decision in what is done to it.

Doctor's are not God. Some are very good, yes...but some are very bad. To just accept what they say because "oh my goodness, he's a doctor so he must be right" is asking for some fraud to kill you with his lack of knowledge.

But as we all know we are a society that is focused on instant gratification. Sadly I think thats what your mentality is based on.

Perhaps our 'society' is...but I am not. In any case, getting our band to the point where it's doing the job it was designed to do is not instant gratification.

I got this band for it to do a specific purpose. It is apparent from reading the many forums around the web, personal blog spots, etc. that the time you wait for your first fill, and the time between fills, is up for grabs. Some doctors fill at 2 weeks...some at 4...some not for 5 months. Follow up fills are sometimes 2 weeks apart, a month apart or even 6 weeks to 2 months apart.

So unless a doctor can give a good reason why he's not doing a fill on one of his patients who is hungry, eating to excess (or struggling not to on their own) and has no restriction, then he should be questioned regarding his reasons.

I question some of you becauseI feel that If you think your doctor is not a good one why are you still seeing him?

Ding. The reason I wrote my OP is because there are many people that don't realize they can fire their doctor and find another one to do their fills. They're 6-7 months down the line and still have no restriction because their doctors are using the band as a placebo...or as a reward...rather than in the manner it was intended.

It's an unfortunate thing that happened to your hubbys exwife. But we are not talking about cancer here. Were talking about a band beeing progressively filled to give you less room in your tummy to fill.

No...we are not talking about a band being progressively filled either. We are talking about putting total control of your body in a doctor's hands and not questioning him.

I think that we banded folk need to learn how to use our tool and that takes time.

Ok...so you're never given the hammer, but you're supposed to still build that house because we have to learn to use it 'virtually'?

We learn to use our tool when the tool is given to us. Installing the band is just putting the hammer in the box. Can I build my house better just by virtue of that hammer being in my box? No. Can I have any more success at not eating to excess just because that band is in my body? No. If I could lose weight without the band...I would not have gotten the band.

There are alot of bandsters on here who have had complications because they never adapted to their new way of eating. Most of them live with an overly tight band, product of beeing filled too fast.

Each of us is unique. There are also many people on many forums who were filled 'too fast' and had no problems.

Hmmm.. Along with the band beeing used as a tool there has to be some sort of behavioral adjustment. What do you think?

I've never denied that we will have to modify our behavior. The band is just that...a tool. We still have to learn to 'step away' from the table when full...but until we are given that tool, full is still 'excess'.

.

[ElfiePoo 109]

As a patient, you have rights. The right to ask questions & receive answers. If he/she can't answer your questions, you have the right to ask them to find out the answers for you. Don't assume anything. Educate yourself. In this day & age, the internet is a very valuable tool.

Remember, you have rights...it's your body.

Not only a right, but a responsibility.

You know, over the years I've been told that I am 'fortunate' to have such good doctors...not just for the bariatric stuff, but my Internal Medicine, pediatrician, etc.

I always tell these people, no I'm not just fortunate. My doctor choices are the result of a lot of hard work. When I needed a new doctor because mine retired, I interviewed doctors...made appointments...and came in with a list of questions. First question on the list was "How do you feel about a patient questioning your diagnosis/medication choices and possibly rejecting them or bringing you alternate possibilities?"

I did the same with my bariatric surgeon and clinic. I 'interviewed' 6 or 7 of them before making my final choice. I wanted one that would work with me...not dictate my care and give me no say.

.

[soocalchic 1,087]

My qualifications are that I am an intelligent human being who ultimately has the total responsibility for any care this body receives. It is my responsibility to do all the research I can (and the doctor is one of those research tools) and make the final decision in what is done to it.

Doctor's are not God. Some are very good, yes...but some are very bad. To just accept what they say because "oh my goodness, he's a doctor so he must be right" is asking for some fraud to kill you with his lack of knowledge.

Perhaps our 'society' is...but I am not. In any case, getting our band to the point where it's doing the job it was designed to do is not instant gratification.

I got this band for it to do a specific purpose. It is apparent from reading the many forums around the web, personal blog spots, etc. that the time you wait for your first fill, and the time between fills, is up for grabs. Some doctors fill at 2 weeks...some at 4...some not for 5 months. Follow up fills are sometimes 2 weeks apart, a month apart or even 6 weeks to 2 months apart.

So unless a doctor can give a good reason why he's not doing a fill on one of his patients who is hungry, eating to excess (or struggling not to on their own) and has no restriction, then he should be questioned regarding his reasons.

Ding. The reason I wrote my OP is because there are many people that don't realize they can fire their doctor and find another one to do their fills. They're 6-7 months down the line and still have no restriction because their doctors are using the band as a placebo...or as a reward...rather than in the manner it was intended.

No...we are not talking about a band being progressively filled either. We are talking about putting total control of your body in a doctor's hands and not questioning him.

Ok...so you're never given the hammer, but you're supposed to still build that house because we have to learn to use it 'virtually'?

We learn to use our tool when the tool is given to us. Installing the band is just putting the hammer in the box. Can I build my house better just by virtue of that hammer being in my box? No. Can I have any more success at not eating to excess just because that band is in my body? No. If I could lose weight without the band...I would not have gotten the band.

Each of us is unique. There are also many people on many forums who were filled 'too fast' and had no problems.

I've never denied that we will have to modify our behavior. The band is just that...a tool. We still have to learn to 'step away' from the table when full...but until we are given that tool, full is still 'excess'.

.

I love how you picked my post apart.. a bit neurotic aren't we? I know forums are for people who have different opinions and i will take your post as just that. Your personal opinion. I'm not an e- thug lol!! So I think I will leave this one alone. Have a good time with your soon to be tight band.

[ElfiePoo 109]

I love how you picked my post apart.. a bit neurotic aren't we? I know forums are for people who have different opinions and i will take your post as just that. Your personal opinion. I'm not an e- thug lol!! So I think I will leave this one alone. Have a good time with your soon to be tight band.

No, I responded to your post. You apparently didn't take my post as someone who has a differing opinion since you felt the need to make a personal attack and accuse me of being neurotic...and 'picking apart' your post. If you don't like it when people disagree with you, this is the wrong place to be.

Read the forums. Not just this one, but the many others that exist on the internet. The fact is that you can end up with a too tight band whether you get fills every 2 weeks or every 3 months because it has nothing to do with how often you get fills and everything to do with how your body reacts to them.

We are unique individuals with unique requirements and should not be treated by our doctors as if we're little gingerbread men punched from a cookie cutter.

The authority over your body and care rests in your hands. If you choose to relinquish that authority to the doctor, that is your choice. Mine was to become an equal partner in my care with my doctor. With his knowledge and experience of the human body and bariatrics...and my knowledge and experience of my own body and bariatrics...we make a good team.

My doctor told me he wished all of his patients took such an interest in their own care, but I'm sure (because I've run across them) that there are just as many who want their patients to just shut up and do as they're told and not ask questions.

.

[HotToddy 0]

This is a very good topic that addresses alot of important points. Unfortunately due to the negative overtones of the posts many people will not participate in the discussion. Isn't the purpose of this forum to help and encourage each other through this life changing transformation?

Good Luck to everyone.

[Guest austrolatrishy]

I second that HotToddy

[lisa6 0]

hey ladies, i just wanted to say a thing or two. i was banded in august at the third leading hospital in our nation. i had a lot of confidence in that.i went through about a year of visits at this hospital to prepare for this surgery. up until 5 days ago i had not had any restriction. and of course did not lose. i did not have a 52,ooo.00 surgery to completely try to lose the weight on my own. i think she's right about the fact that i was hungry and struggling for the past 4 months, but i had to follow the guidelines my surgeon set for fills.so i put some thought into this as i was really frustrated and thought i was a failure. my first thought was that my health proffessionals didn't care whether this worked for me. that they probably just were earning a great deal of money. but then i thought, this doesn't make sense. if they really wanted to just make a buck, they could and would fill and over fill and re-fill as many times and as frequent as a patient complained. they certainly would make more money if they didn't make their patients wait every 4 weeks for a fill,? right? i do believe that yes, we have to do our part but no, none of us should have to go too long without a fill to offer some help on our Quest. those fills do not have to be aggressive ones, but just something so were not waiting months, and we feel were actually getting somewhere. also i'm sure that doctor's who are less aggressive with fills are probably concerned about problems arising from pb'ing and slippage. they don't want to be sued. yes some act like they are high and mighty and ultimately you are paying them for their service so if you don't agree with them-go elsewhere. i was thinking of this and i wish i too would of realized this a few months back. but now i am finally feeling this band at work. so maybe if you're trying to get fills to quickly and going in too often, then yeah that's probably not the way to go. but also, if your doc only allows fills for extended periods of time and there's no restriction there you should have some say as to when you can slowly build the saline up. waiting 4 months out to feel anything is too long. so i think somewhere there has to be a happy medium. maybe the rules for fills should be made on a patient to patient basis. and the time between fills based on your progress. we certainly all have different sized bands and we've all beeen told that our amount of cc's is different for the sweet spot person to person. so maybe they should treat us as individuals. thanks for listening. lisa6

[ElfiePoo 109]

maybe the rules for fills should be made on a patient to patient basis. and the time between fills based on your progress. we certainly all have different sized bands and we've all beeen told that our amount of cc's is different for the sweet spot person to person. so maybe they should treat us as individuals. thanks for listening. lisa6

Thank you...that was the whole point of my OP. :thumbup:

We are individuals with individual needs and our doctors should be treating us as such. If they aren't, and they refuse to work with us, it is our right to find another doctor who will.

.

Edited December 7, 2009 by ElfiePoo