Why do liberals Hate Sarah Palin?

[pattygreen 5]

Judges and Esther are old testament, the same one that contains Leviticus. Do you live by that as well? specifically Leviticus 15, 19-30?

So, you are trying to say that the old testament is irrelevent today? The 'whole' scripture is there for us to learn from, not just a portion of it.

The verse you are refering to relates to women who have their period not having sex or they will be considered unclean. They are not sinful, only unclean. When someone in a Levite’s family died, God commanded them to bury the body, and they would be unclean until evening. Becoming unclean is different from being sinful, as proved by God commanding them to become unclean in certain situations. Do these laws apply to us today? No, they do not. Why? It is important to remember the purpose of the Old Testament laws concerning blood. In the sacrificial system, blood was sacred (Leviticus 17:11). A woman’s “uncleanness” during her period was symbolic of the value placed on blood. As a result, contact with a woman who was having her period was forbidden.

Christians today are not under the Old Testament ceremonial law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:15). There no longer is a sacrificial system. Jesus’ blood sacrifice paid the penalty for sins once and for all. The Levitical ceremonial laws do not apply today.

Women deacons are mentioned several times in the New Tcstament (Rom 16:1-2; I Tim 3:11; and perhaps Phil 1:1); Deacons are leadership positions.

Romans 16:1: Paul refers to Phoebe as a minister (diakonos) of the church at Cenchrea.

Philemon 2: Paul writes his letter to "Apphia, our sister" and two men as the three leaders of a house church.

[btrieger 21]

So, women should attend a sacrificial ceremony every month after their Aunt Flo leaves?

[LarraineM 6]

I hate when one suggest she represents women..........she represents what ever gets her the biggest check. We don't support her because she stands for nothing,, she is an embarasment not a leader. I can't support someone because she is simply a woman.

[LarraineM 6]

Hey, Patty is that Sen. Joe Liberman of CT one of yours too? He seeks BIG CHECKS too. Whats with this pay to play game? His wife even seeks big checks.

[pattygreen 5]

Two phrases that are often tossed around these days by supposedly intelligent people are "a woman's right to choose" and "a woman's reproductive rights". These are considered acceptable expressions while discussing abortion. They have become a way of taking the ugliness out of the process of denying life by those who feel burdened by the outcome of the intimacy they enjoy at will. They also excuse the actions of the male participant in the intimate activity who doesn't want to be bothered with the reslting responsibility. The observation one can draw is these phrases are indicative of people who view human conduct only in terms of animal yearnings. To consider human life has value beyond this level is to give life for humans a greater significance. But to do so is to limit a person's conduct choices in kind of an absolute way, which is inconsistent in the current relativistic attitude held by many. I haven't figured out how those who use these phrases reconcile their having made it into the world, and are enjoying the fruits of their labor, to their wanting to prevent new life from experienceing the same enjoyment. Perhaps you morally challenged people will explain it to me.

Just because her daughter got pregnant as a teenager doesn't mean that she didn't teach her about what is right. (not having sex before marriage) How do you explain all the teen pregnancies from parents who taught their children the right thing? How do you explain the child who stole from the stoire, yet was taught that stealing is wrong? How do you explain the child who hit someone elses child, when he was clearly told that physical violence is not acceptable? It called the sinful nature. Just because someone is a Christian and truly loves God does not mean that they are automatically sinless now. ALL do wrong. Christians as well as unbelievers. The differnece is that with the Christian, the Holy Spirit dwells within them and convicts them of their wrongs, so they are more apt to reconsider doing things that contradict God's will. They are more apt to desire to obey God than unbelievers and therefore will do the right thing more often than a nonchristian. They are willing to adhere to God's righteousness, whereas a nonbeliever makes up what he feels is right in his own eyes.

However, the more she's in the public eye the less likely it is that she will be elected to high office.

This quote from bjean is like how conservatives feel about Obama. The more he does in office the less likely he will be reelected agin. And the less and less the people like him.

[pattygreen 5]

So, women should attend a sacrificial ceremony every month after their Aunt Flo leaves?

Once again, Christians today are not under the Old Testament ceremonial law . They should however follow other old testament laws. "Thou shalt not murder" was given to us in the OT, and it is still significant now, as are many of the OT laws.

[pattygreen 5]

Hey, Patty is that Sen. Joe Liberman of CT one of yours too? He seeks BIG CHECKS too. Whats with this pay to play game? His wife even seeks big checks.

Yes, Liberman is CT. Most politicians are corrupt. Just look at that Nebraska senator, Ben and The cornhusker kickback. But that isn't all his fault. He fell for the dangling worm. Obama is the man in leadership. He should not have allowed such bribery at the expense of every tax payer to get what he wants and the American people are clearly against. He's supposed to work for us, not himself and his cronies in Congress. And this from a man who said that there would be no more of that if he were elected. Yeah right!

[tdslf1 0]

PG,

You hit the nail on the head.

The bulk of people in this country don't think of it as murder and they never will. That is and will be a divide never crossed and I thank God that I stand on the right to choose what I do with my body. Just so you know, no person who truely wants to be POTUS will run on that platform.

Oh still and forever, Palin is a bobblehead.

[BJean 16]

patty, where in the Bible did God "say" that the Old Testament rules should be totally ignored because they don't apply to people nowadays? And that nowadays began at exactly what point in time?

[Desdemona 48]

Oh Brother! Please! This link is supposed to be about PALIN --not this YAWN of subject of the Bible again! But for openers--the New T, does indeed, say that the Old Ts laws fell under a previous "method" made up of "laws" and behaviors for "man" to use to get right with God again. That's where all those laws come from. But then in the New T (written by a special sect of Jews and Gentiles) say -- God saw that it wasn't working and had mercy because he understood that mortals weren't going to have a prayer (sos to speak) so there is a New Covenant to replace the old one. The new T: 1) includes Gentiles; and, 2) sends the son of God to be a sacrificial lamb so that the impossible task of "man" working his way back to God could be replaced with forgiveness of sin. Now if you're gonna start on the 10 commandments -- let me just mention that the Old T was written by Jews for Jews. The orthodox Jews follow the letter of all the laws. They also never saw 10 "special commandments" in the Old T. The Old T never says there are 10 "special" commandments. In fact, the New T never says that either! I'm not aware that the Jews have (so far) given permission to Gentiles to scarf up their religious writings and start claiming ownership to them. However, in reality, perhaps that is not such a terrible injustice after all because anyone who is open enough or cares enough to actually do proper research into world scriptures will find that pretty much ALL the stories in both the Old and New Ts (including Adam and Eve, the creation, virginal births, miraculous cures by Messiahs, resurrections etc) are, in fact, very ancient recycled stories whirling around the Middle East, Far East and Africa long before the Old or New T was ever thought of. Nevertheless, there were some nice additions and angles contributed to those old stories that both the Jews and Christians added. Now we have everybody and their mother doing there own interpretation of what is written -- and of course THEY claim to KNOW the mind of God. How very convenient for them!! By-the-way --how did God get to be MALE? I mean male and female is about genitalia. So what would a spirit be doing with genitalia?? Somebody answer THAT one!! Isn't this REALLY because all world Bibles were actually written by males? And isn't that really the reason you have to search with a fine-tooth comb to find the few female heroines that appear in the Bible? And doesn't that really lead us back to what laws and mores really are applicable and useful for TODAY's culture? Are you aware of how much the Bible (Old and New T alike) actually supports and promotes slavery??!!! That alone is enought to tell a logical rational person that we need to seriously rethink who wrote the Bible, who it was written for, and what does and doesn't make sense for our culture today. In fact, these same ancient stories are told in a very different way before people realized that men had something to do with the birth of a baby. Prior to that - God was female! I guess life (and judging how other people ought to be living their lives) is a lot easier if you can believe that you have the answers. Look! I'm out here --just trying to be a decent human being and doing the best I can. From where I sit -- Palin (remember Sarah Palin???) is about as Christian as an Alaskan wolf. And a dumb but very cute one at that!

Edited January 2, 2010 by Desdemona

[pattygreen 5]

patty, where in the Bible did God "say" that the Old Testament rules should be totally ignored because they don't apply to people nowadays? And that nowadays began at exactly what point in time?

Christians today are not under the Old Testament ceremonial law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:15). There no longer is a sacrificial system. Jesus’ blood sacrifice paid the penalty for sins once and for all. The Levitical ceremonial laws do not apply to us today. The moral laws tend to be what Christians should adhere to.

This link is a long read, but if you're interested in learning about applying OT law to today, then you may read it.

"Applying the Old Testament Law Today" by J. Daniel Hays

[pattygreen 5]

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?"

Answer: The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).

In place of the Old Testament law, we are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor. At the same time, to say that the Old Testament law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.

“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.

[Desdemona 48]

That's all exactly what I just said. I've read it too! And in addition, I also said ---you and the rest of us are all believing whatever we NEED to believe. People are on this board trying to tell us that we need to VOTE for American laws and American leaders and live our lives according to THEIR beliefs about who wrote the Bible, to what extent THEY think it's literally true, and what THEIR interpretation is. All I'm saying is that NOBODY knows the mind of God. NOBODY can PROVE who wrote the Bible and people who have certain beliefs about it do not have the right to make their beliefs into laws that the rest of us have to be subjected to. I'm a liberal -- which means if you don't agree with me you still get to live your own life according to your own beliefs even when my politician wins an election. When people like Palin get elected -- I and most other Americans LOSE our FREEDOM to choose. Those of us who have a different understanding of the Bible than you do must live in a society ruled by people who want us to live according to beliefs that we don't agree with. That is my point. That is why I don't like to see religion brought into political discussions.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Desdemona

[pattygreen 5]

Oh Brother! Please! This link is supposed to be about PALIN --not this YAWN of subject of the Bible again!

We can talk about any subject that the thread veers off on.

But for openers--the New T, does indeed, say that the Old Ts laws fell under a previous "method" made up of "laws" and behaviors for "man" to use to get right with God again. That's where all those laws come from.

Where does the new testament say that?

But then in the New T (written by a special sect of Jews and Gentiles) say -- God saw that it wasn't working and had mercy because he understood that mortals weren't going to have a prayer (sos to speak) so there is a New Covenant to replace the old one.

Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. The old does not replace the new, it enlightens it. It clears up the missing points. It reveals the Savior that God has sent and shows mankind their need for him.

The new T: 1) includes Gentiles; and, 2) sends the son of God to be a sacrificial lamb so that the impossible task of "man" working his way back to God could be replaced with forgiveness of sin. Now if you're gonna start on the 10 commandments -- let me just mention that the Old T was written by Jews for Jews. The orthodox Jews follow the letter of all the laws. They also never saw 10 "special commandments" in the Old T. The Old T never says there are 10 "special" commandments. In fact, the New T never says that either!

Exodus chapter 20 verses 1-17 states 10 of God's commandments. (these are what we call the 'Ten Commandments" today). The NT repeats them in various chapters and verses throughout.

I'm not aware that the Jews have (so far) given permission to Gentiles to scarf up their religious writings and start claiming ownership to them.

God wrote the bible for all of mankind, not just the Jewish people. They have no legal ownership to it. God, who is the same God of the jews, is the Creator of ALL.

However, in reality, perhaps that is not such a terrible injustice after all because anyone who is open enough or cares enough to actually do proper research into world scriptures will find that pretty much ALL the stories in both the Old and New Ts (including Adam and Eve, the creation, virginal births, miraculous cures by Messiahs, resurrections etc) are, in fact, very ancient recycled stories whirling around the Middle East, Far East and Africa long before the Old or New T was ever thought of.

Not true. These stories are form the actual bible that we have today.

Nevertheless, there were some nice additions and angles contributed to those old stories that both the Jews and Christians added. Now we have everybody and their mother doing there own interpretation of what is written -- and of course THEY claim to KNOW the mind of God. How very convenient for them!!

Even you can know the mind of God. he actually wants you to know his mind. All you need to do is read his words for yourself, and you will get to know him.

By-the-way --how did God get to be MALE? I mean male and female is about genitalia. So what would a spirit be doing with genitalia?? Somebody answer THAT one!!

The scripture teaches that God is our 'Father'. Fathers to humans are male, so we apply that gender to God. The scripture teaches that there is no male nor female in heaven, but all are spirit. Therefore, God is Spirit.

Isn't this REALLY because all world Bibles were actually written by males? And isn't that really the reason you have to search with a fine-tooth comb to find the few female heroines that appear in the Bible? And doesn't that really lead us back to what laws and mores really are applicable and useful for TODAY's culture? Are you aware of how much the Bible (Old and New T alike) actually supports and promotes slavery??!!!

God does not promote slavery. He spoke of slavery in the scripture because mankind had slaves at that time. They were actually servants. Some indentured. Because the bible speaks on slavery, does not mean that God condoned it. Man deffinitely did, though.

That alone is enought to tell a logical rational person that we need to seriously rethink who wrote the Bible, who it was written for, and what does and doesn't make sense for our culture today. In fact, these same ancient stories are told in a very different way before people realized that men had something to do with the birth of a baby. Prior to that - God was female!

Really? When?

I guess life (and judging how other people ought to be living their lives) is a lot easier if you can believe that you have the answers. Look! I'm out here --just trying to be a decent human being and doing the best I can. From where I sit -- Palin (remember Sarah Palin???) is about as Christian as an Alaskan wolf. And a dumb but very cute one at that!

I disagree. She is a good Christian woman who loves God and has great virtue and charachter and morals.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I, too, am weary of EVERY thread morphing into a long, winded analysis of the bible.

So, Pattygreen, might I suggest that you start a new thread perhaps titled: " Pattygreen's interpretation of the bible". And limit your religious/bible interpretations and suggestions to that? And not subject those of us who want to engage in a SERIOUS debate about a topic to the constant religious/biblical angle? If you can't debate a topic without that then perhaps stay out of it.