Health Care

[ariscus99 1]

ariscus "medical wasteland"? You're a stitch! At this point I just have to laugh.

Yeah, I thought George was your boy. You speak in Bushisms. The thoughts you post are line by line what the Bushyheads have fed you. If you didn't vote for him it's probably because you didn't vote. But I don't expect you to admit that. Or you brilliantly voted Independent, which was a non-vote in its' own way.

But the fact that you are so consumed with taxes and big government and you're vocal about it NOW and not when Bush was in office should really tell you something. It tells me a lot.

It's kind of amusing, you hate Bush so much, and only(quite obviously) pay attention to the left wing media, your to busy to notice that, even amongst the right Bush doesn't have a whole bunch of fans. Sure most conservative's don't hate him like liberals do. It wasn't the right wing media who made up stories about Bush having mental disorders, autism, and all the other things the left made up. But he still wasn't much liked by the right, mainly because he screwed up their chances for re-election of a republican president in 08. But also because of the banking fiasco, believe it or not, some republicans actually lost some money too, it wasn't all the poor liberal democrats who lost. Conservatives, and republicans, lost their children and parents and brothers and sisters in a war they weren't sure had any meaning. But now that Iraq is doing "better", it's obama's accomplishment. Neat how that happened. They suffered through the real estate burst too. But they are capable of seeing that it wasn't all just one person, and the republicans never had a filibuster proof house and senate, so, the republican party isn't the only one to blame for the things that have happened since 2000. Liberals, who talk about conservatives short term memory, seem to forget this quite often. Oh well.

I am consumed with big taxes and big government. Thats not how America was founded, it was founded on the basis of government doing as little as possible. Isn't there a quote that goes something like "the government is best which governs least." I don't feel that I shouldn't pay taxes, I gladly pay my taxes, but there are millions of American's who don't, and not just the rich. I live in one of the highest taxed states. And to now have to pay even more, I'm not a fan of that. Most people I know, don't mind paying taxes, they just don't think they should pay all the taxes. Don't the top 1% pay something like 80% of all the taxes? How is that fare? When it comes to taxes, I'm huge fan of the flat tax. put a 15% tax on everyone and everything, no exemptions whatsoever. I think it would be awesome, would reduce the tax code by 20,000 pages or so, and make everything easier on everyone.

[BJean 16]

ariscus so now you want to bring up state taxes and bitch about that? Bitching about the United States government and the Internal Revenue Service isn't enough for you?

Would you feel a whole lot better about yourself if we did away with public schools (yeah, you probably home school), the police department, the health department, the fire department, the Water department, city government, help for funding colleges, and each and everything that makes this country the best country on earth? Why don't you live in the U.K. where you'd be paying a heckofa lot more in taxes? Or a South African country where you might not have clean water?

Where do you want to start cutting - oh yeah - it's medical care, right? You like the system we had that politicians and intelligent people have been trying to change for 50 years because it is so lousy. Great. We keep that. What's next? Public schools?

[ariscus99 1]

Texas doesn't have "state taxes", we pay "property taxes" based on the value of our property.

California does have state taxes, and we also pay property tax. So things are little different tax wise here, believe it or not.

[LeighaMason 19]

Don't the top 1% pay something like 80% of all the taxes? How is that fare? When it comes to taxes, I'm huge fan of the flat tax. put a 15% tax on everyone and everything, no exemptions whatsoever. I think it would be awesome, would reduce the tax code by 20,000 pages or so, and make everything easier on everyone.

I LOVE the flat tax, I got to get to work right now but I do want to continue with the top 1% discussion. Be back shortly...

(You have something I agree with!!)

[ariscus99 1]

Really?

That is an incredibly myopic and ignorant view of history. The unjustified and unnecessary war in Iraq created more terrorists than any recruiting drive Al-Qaida could have conceived of. The war in Iraq also created a tremendous opportunity for Iran to become the nemesis they are today. The illegal torture techniques, Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo (Cheney still defends these today) are all used by our enemies as a justification for everything they are doing. The ongoing doomed to failure approach in Afghanistan is doing nothing more than propping up a corrupt drug dealing dictatorship and a civil war that is of no business of ours.

Thats fine. I agree we shouldn't be there, I don't want to be there, I have friends and family who are, I've lost friends over there. Your not gonna get me to say go kill em all, we should be there now. If thats what you think my stance is. My point was simple. Under Bush, post 9/11 myself and my country were safe. We were not attacked on that scale or any real scale here in our country, which is all I said.

[BJean 16]

Easy to say that you aren't a big fan of Bush now that the proof of his disasterous presidency has become so public. That and after the disasterous elections that took the Republicans out of control of not only the presidency but the House and Senate.

When Bush was president the Republicans had control most of the time. The current political climate and bad economy and housing bubble that burst and all the rest happened because of that 8 years. You just can't change that. Even when you say you didn't support it, that doesn't change it.

I don't feel sorry for Republicans at all. They are reaping what they have sown. And the constant effort to re-write history makes them vulnerable in November. How much do you think Americans can take?

The Democratic party isn't perfect. They certainly have their stinkers that deserve scorn. But as a whole, the Replicans do not have the best interests of the United States in their hearts. There is no room in their hearts because of the self-love that consumes them.

Sorry, but after the many years I've spent in politics, that's the way I see it.

You can stay delusional as long as you want. It won't affect me and I'm done with arguing with you. It is a worthless waste of my time.

[KartMan 58]

Thats fine. I agree we shouldn't be there, I don't want to be there, I have friends and family who are, I've lost friends over there. Your not gonna get me to say go kill em all, we should be there now. If thats what you think my stance is. My point was simple. Under Bush, post 9/11 myself and my country were safe. We were not attacked on that scale or any real scale here in our country, which is all I said.

Did I miss something? Has Obama “caused” us to be attacked during his time in office? In fact, I think the data shows that under his (Obama’s) watch more high level Al Qaida and Taliban have been killed or captured at a faster rate than under the last administration.

[ariscus99 1]

ariscus so now you want to bring up state taxes and bitch about that? Bitching about the United States government and the Internal Revenue Service isn't enough for you?

Would you feel a whole lot better about yourself if we did away with public schools (yeah, you probably home school), the police department, the health department, the fire department, the Water department, city government, help for funding colleges, and each and everything that makes this country the best country on earth? Why don't you live in the U.K. where you'd be paying a heckofa lot more in taxes? Or a South African country where you might not have clean water?

Where do you want to start cutting - oh yeah - it's medical care, right? You like the system we had that politicians and intelligent people have been trying to change for 50 years because it is so lousy. Great. We keep that. What's next? Public schools?

Again, your ignorance is just outrageous. Read my post. I'm fine paying taxes. Yeah I complain about all of them, there's a lot. And a lot of the money is misappropriated, and that pi$$es me off. Let’s see cut schools? No my wife works for the schools. Cut fire? No I work for fire. I UNDERSTAND THAT TAXES NEED TO BE PAID!!!! I UNDERSTAND WE CANNOT FUNCTION WITHOUT THEM!!!!! Where did I say get rid of any of these programs???? Oh wait I didn't, you’re just rambling on the liberal talking points. Someone says I hate taxes your rebuttal "oh you hate roads? You hate schools? You hate police departments, fire departments? Local government, you hate it all you want it all free, and you want the poor people of America to pay for it for you" Put your talking points aside for a second. I pay more than most in taxes. But I know I'm lucky to have a great job, and to have a wife with a great job, so we understand we pay more then some, when that number jumps, there's a problem with that. If more people would do their part by being active working contributing people to our society, taxes could be lowered on everyone. If we had a flat tax, taxes could be lowered on everyone. Why don't I live in the UK? Because I choose not to. Why not a South African country? Because I choose not to. If I was born there and miserable I would try my hardest to leave, like many do, and go through the process to legally become an American citizen. These are silly and ridiculous questions. I've said time and again, that the health care system is no good, so no; I don't want it to stay the same. However I don't like obamacare either. I think there are other better methods that I've talked about ad nauseam, ad infinitum here. Stop being ignorant.

[ariscus99 1]

Did I miss something? Has Obama “caused” us to be attacked during his time in office? In fact, I think the data shows that under his (Obama’s) watch more high level Al Qaida and Taliban have been killed or captured at a faster rate than under the last administration.

Did I miss something, let me go back and check were I said we were attacked under obama. Aww man I can't find the post where I said that, can you show me it real quick.:smile: Other than the underwear bomber, who by dumb luck didn't succeed and depending on how you take the fort hood incident.

[ariscus99 1]

Sorry, but after the many years I've spent in politics, that's the way I see it.

This interests me, what is your political background, please enlighten me to what you did during your many years in politics? The way spat off about random nothingness I've got to say, I don't really believe you've had much to do with politics other then maybe supporting your local dem at a rally or helping his campaign for an hour or two a week. Though you do have the talking points down pat so maybe I'm wrong.

[KartMan 58]

However I don't like obamacare either. I think there are other better methods that I've talked about ad nauseam, ad infinitum here. Stop being ignorant.

You’re right. A better method would be to asses an appropriate Medicare tax on ALL earned income and provide Basic Universal Coverage to everyone - Medicare for all. Under basic coverage everyone would have access to well doctor visits, medically necessary procedures, chronic disease coverage, and catastrophic illness protection. Everything above basic coverage could be covered under supplemental insurance that could be purchased on the open market. Why is this such a hard concept to understand?

[ariscus99 1]

You’re right. A better method would be to asses an appropriate Medicare tax on ALL earned income and provide Basic Universal Coverage to everyone - Medicare for all. Under basic coverage everyone would have access to well doctor visits, medically necessary procedures, chronic disease coverage, and catastrophic illness protection. Everything above basic coverage could be covered under supplemental insurance that could be purchased on the open market. Why is this such a hard concept to understand?

Socialized medicine, with a splash of free market, that would undoubtedly fail pretty rapidly. That is what you want. Thats fine, however the majority of America does not agree with you. Myself included. If you want this type of coverage, move somewhere it is offered. No one else in the world can do that at the scale that we would have to do it. So it would undoubtedly fail eventually as well. Canada has trouble with it on a scale 1/10th of America. Sweden? 1/30th of America I believe. So unless someone like China, does it and it works well for everyone, not just some, lets not be the guinea pig, when the consequence is so large, and the outcome is so certain.

[KartMan 58]

Did I miss something, let me go back and check were I said we were attacked under obama. Aww man I can't find the post where I said that, can you show me it real quick.:smile: Other than the underwear bomber, who by dumb luck didn't succeed and depending on how you take the fort hood incident.

Then we agree, Obama is at least as good as Bush in protecting us from attack. The underwear bomber is exactly the same as the shoe bomber, both were neutralized in the same way. The Fort Hood incident “appears” to be a lone kook that was in some ways influenced by religious extremism. There were several cases like this during the Bush administration as well, so again I think they cancel out. I don’t think it is so much that either Administration has “protected” us from terrorists. There are a plethora of law enforcement organizations that are doing their job in that respect.

I don’t think Bush caused 9/11 – he just happened to be president at the time. He did though make a colossal mistake in taking us into an unjust war and taking his eye off the real prize (Al Qaida). Taking us into that war and all of the cowboy tactics used by him and his administration have destroyed all of the good will the world had for us after 9/11. When 9/11 happened, the world was behind us in condemning that heinous act of terrorism. Instead of harnessing that good will, we started a war that had nothing to do with 9/11 then granted ourselves rights to do whatever we wanted to to whoever we wanted to. That war and those tactics have created more terrorists than Al Qaida could have dreamed of building form any grass roots initiative. Unfortunately, Obama has continued down the same path by ramping up the war in Afghanistan. Why can’t we understand that every innocent civilian we kill in Afghanistan has the potential of creating 10s or 100s of terrorists? I know that if a bomb came out of the sky form an unmanned drone and killed my family, I would personally go to war on the people that caused that – that would make me a terrorist.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And this is a perfect example of selective reading. What did I say in the passage that you quoted? Here let me refresh your memory; verbatim: Protected me and my country from additional terrorist attacks. Now unless I've missed where I said 9/11 happened under someone else's watch.....

He didn't protect this country when it counted. Under no other president did 3000 people die from a terrorist attack. So it is hardly something to brag about that he kept us safe from 9/11 on. So what? So did all the other presidents under whom 3000 people didn't die.

[BJean 16]

I'm not arguing, you understand. But you are wrong about my role in politics and government. And you are wrong about a lot of things. You speak of my use of "talking points" but your use of them is what prompted my anti-tax rant.

So I understand now. If YOU think it is important, you don't mind paying taxes for it. But since YOU have a good health care plan (for why else would you be arguing the way you have been against what is it you call it? "Obamacare") since YOU have a decent health plan, YOU don't think that the system needs to be changed.

How very open-minded, thoughtful and generous of spirit. Not.