Health Care

[pattygreen 5]

Thank you all for your concern. I appreciate it. Even though she is still in the Critical care unit, I have seen an improvement today. Thankfully. She actually got up into a chair for 2 hours and they turned off the breathing tube that she has down her throat for one half hour. She breathed on her own for that time. They may remove it tomorrow. They must wean her off it.

I know that we spar on and off in these threads, and I want you all to know that even though we don't agree on many issues, I genuinely care for all of you. Thanks. Patty

[LeighaMason 19]

I have a new health care plan, as I have stated earlier, when I left my corporate job (escaped my indentured servant status) I had to pass on the $1000 a month cobra insurance, so I don't have health insurance. Because of the new debt in starting my business I needed more life insurance. So I applied and they sent a nurse to my house to take blood, urine, blood pressure etc. A full health screen and a house call to boot! So every year I am just going to apply for a new life insurance policy. :thumbup:

[pattygreen 5]

I have a new health care plan, as I have stated earlier, when I left my corporate job (escaped my indentured servant status) I had to pass on the $1000 a month cobra insurance, so I don't have health insurance. Because of the new debt in starting my business I needed more life insurance. So I applied and they sent a nurse to my house to take blood, urine, blood pressure etc. A full health screen and a house call to boot! So every year I am just going to apply for a new life insurance policy. :thumbup:

That's a great idea! You were getting the life ins. anyway. There was a free dental clinic set up in Hartford, CT temporarily with volunteer dentists. They do this 2X a year. Anyone without ins. could go and get free care. It was first come first serve, and there was a long wait, but it was worth it for those who needed it.

[BJean 16]

Glad that the news about your mother is good today, patty.

[BJean 16]

Leigha, when my husband left his corporate job (a major defense contractor) and started his own business, we were faced with what to do about health insurance. What we had wasn't fabulous, but what we could get was even more expensive with less coverage.

Now (you may have read this earlier) we insure our employees which is very expensive for us but their coverage is better than ours. The carrier refuses to insure us because we have both had surgery within the past 5 years which they call a "preexisting condition." And they call it that as if we are going to be facing a similar surgery in the future. But both our surgeries were one time things, not ongoing problems.

He had to pass a very rigorous health screening exam too in order to get new life insurance. Not a bad idea to let them do the blood work. Man, if you can figure out a way to beat this lousy system, it's very cool.

I love your earlier post about the health care stats in the U.S., Canada and "England" (they may just be talking about England and not all of the U.K. I guess.) I received an email like that too (not sure if it was exactly the same one.) Your post script was awesome and the most relevant information Americans need to understand.

[Devana 0]

Thank you all for your concern. I appreciate it. Even though she is still in the Critical care unit, I have seen an improvement today. Thankfully. She actually got up into a chair for 2 hours and they turned off the breathing tube that she has down her throat for one half hour. She breathed on her own for that time. They may remove it tomorrow. They must wean her off it.

I know that we spar on and off in these threads, and I want you all to know that even though we don't agree on many issues, I genuinely care for all of you. Thanks. Patty

I hope she's continuing to improve, patty. My beloved MIL went through a similar thing, a bad gut bleed due to blood thinners. I was with her and I called everyone because I really thought she may not make it through the night. She did.

The thing to remember through this is to make sure YOU get looked after. I know when a loved one is in trouble we tend to put ourselves last, sometimes to the detriment of our own well being.

[BJean 16]

Devana, my DH's father would probably be dead by now if we hadn't moved his mother to an assisted living home. She's had several strokes. She does have all her mental faculties, but does have some memory loss. She also lost the use of her left arm and leg and consequently is wheelchair bound and she has some difficulty eating as well.

She wanted to stay at home with her husband, which we tried for a couple of years. But she had 3 different falls, which resulted in broken bones, when she tried to do things without asking for help.

We were told by people who work with aging people that since he's so frail, if he continued to try to take care of her at night (they had help during the day) that he would die long before she did.

We all tried to push that out of our minds, but then we began to see it happen. He got very sick, had several small heart attacks and other digestive issues. We took him to the ER relatively frequently. So the kids made the very hard decision that she needed to go to an assisted living home.

Once he was out from under the stress of her waking him up several times a night, with him trying to assist her physically when he wasn't really capable, his health has improved dramatically.

She is very unhappy and complains about not being able to be in her own home, but she needs someone to help her who is schooled in taking care of someone who can't help lift herself in and out of chairs, beds, bathroom, etc.

It is very sad that after over 50 years of being married and thinking that you're always going to be there for each other, to realize that you must not only accept outside help but that you may have to live in an unfamiliar environment not only without your spouse, but also without the physical furnishings that you've accumulated and loved.

But the family caregiver for someone with serious health limitations or illness is often the one who suffers the most. People need to keep that in mind when making the hard decisions that surround aging, declining loved ones.

[pattygreen 5]

I hope she's continuing to improve, patty. My beloved MIL went through a similar thing, a bad gut bleed due to blood thinners. I was with her and I called everyone because I really thought she may not make it through the night. She did.

The thing to remember through this is to make sure YOU get looked after. I know when a loved one is in trouble we tend to put ourselves last, sometimes to the detriment of our own well being.

Thankyou. It was my dad that I was mostly worried about. He would sit by her bed for days on end and I wasn't sure if he was eating. Then I left 3 meals in the waiting room fridge for him and every time the nurses asked him to leave for a while they worked on her, he would go and eat something cause it was there. She is much better now. 8 days in ICU and then, sunday she was moved to another room on another floor. She has a way to go to get better, but she is improving and isn't critical any more. That's a blessing!

[pattygreen 5]

Is Health Care a right?

By Walter Williams (economics Professor at George Mason University)

Most politicians, and probably most Americans, see health care as a right. Thus, whether a person has the means to pay for medical services or not, he is nonetheless entitled to them. Let's ask ourselves a few questions about this vision.

Say a person, let's call him Harry, suffers from diabetes and he has no means to pay a laboratory for blood work, a doctor for treatment and a pharmacy for medication. Does Harry have a right to XYZ lab's and Dr. Jones' services and a prescription from a pharmacist? And, if those services are not provided without charge, should Harry be able to call for criminal sanctions against those persons for violating his rights to health care?

You say, "Williams, that would come very close to slavery if one person had the right to force someone to serve him without pay." You're right. Suppose instead of Harry being able to force a lab, doctor and pharmacy to provide services without pay, Congress uses its taxing power to take a couple of hundred dollars out of the paycheck of some American to give to Harry so that he could pay the lab, doctor and pharmacist. Would there be any difference in principle, namely forcibly using one person to serve the purposes of another? There would be one important strategic difference, that of concealment. Most Americans, I would hope, would be offended by the notion of directly and visibly forcing one person to serve the purposes of another. Congress' use of the tax system to invisibly accomplish the same end is more palatable to the average American.

True rights, such as those in our Constitution, or those considered to be natural or human rights, exist simultaneously among people. That means exercise of a right by one person does not diminish those held by another. In other words, my rights to speech or travel impose no obligations on another except those of non-interference. If we apply ideas behind rights to health care to my rights to speech or travel, my free speech rights would require government-imposed obligations on others to provide me with an auditorium, television studio or radio station. My right to travel freely would require government-imposed obligations on others to provide me with airfare and hotel accommodations.

For Congress to guarantee a right to health care, or any other good or service, whether a person can afford it or not, it must diminish someone else's rights, namely their rights to their earnings. The reason is that Congress has no resources of its very own. Moreover, there is no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy giving them those resources. The fact that government has no resources of its very own forces one to recognize that in order for government to give one American citizen a dollar, it must first, through intimidation, threats and coercion, confiscate that dollar from some other American. If one person has a right to something he did not earn, of necessity it requires that another person not have a right to something that he did earn.

To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept. A better term for new-fangled rights to health care, decent housing and food is wishes. If we called them wishes, I would be in agreement with most other Americans for I, too, wish that everyone had adequate health care, decent housing and nutritious meals. However, if we called them human wishes, instead of human rights, there would be confusion and cognitive dissonance. The average American would cringe at the thought of government punishing one person because he refused to be pressed into making someone else's wish come true.

None of my argument is to argue against charity. Reaching into one's own pockets to assist his fellow man in need is praiseworthy and laudable. Reaching into someone else's pockets to do so is despicable and deserves condemnation.

[katklaws 0]

For Health Care Reform, seriously, I don't get people who aren't. It's fear based on misinformation, for the most part. Educate yourselves with primary unbiased information, and don't read every email you get as fact. Geesh.

FactCheck.org is a good start.

I know too many people with pre-existing conditions who can't get insurance, or it's completely cost prohibitive. I remember working 4 jobs with no insurance. Not a good time.

It's cheaper when you pool people together. The co-op idea is a good compromise.

But as is?? Get real.

Even the Public option ISN'T socialism folks. If I see one more misspelled sign that says, 'Keep the government out of my medicare' I will throw up again a little in my mouth.

[pattygreen 5]

For Health Care Reform, seriously, I don't get people who aren't. It's fear based on misinformation, for the most part. Educate yourselves with primary unbiased information, and don't read every email you get as fact. Geesh.

FactCheck.org is a good start.

I know too many people with pre-existing conditions who can't get insurance, or it's completely cost prohibitive. I remember working 4 jobs with no insurance. Not a good time.

It's cheaper when you pool people together. The co-op idea is a good compromise.

But as is?? Get real.

Even the Public option ISN'T socialism folks. If I see one more misspelled sign that says, 'Keep the government out of my medicare' I will throw up again a little in my mouth.

If you would read the article that was posted just above your last post, you will understand why people are against the kind of Health Care reform that Obama wants. People want reform, just not his plan for reform. His plan is not reform at all. It's bankruptcy!

[LeighaMason 19]

If you would read the article that was posted just above your last post, you will understand why people are against the kind of Health Care reform that Obama wants. People want reform, just not his plan for reform. His plan is not reform at all. It's bankruptcy!

I assume you mean the article written by Walter Williams (economics Professor at George Mason University), in his own words, He is also occasional substitute host for the "Rush Limbaugh" show.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Right now the healthcare industry is for profit. That is mistake number one. It should be not for profit. That's why we need a public option or single payer or medicare buy in.

Secondly, the way that a person accesses healthcare is dependent on their ability to pay for it. So, the rich can afford healthcare while the poor can't. Mistake number two.

Or a person who is lucky enough to be employed and have an employer who can afford to pay for healthcare can have access but those who work without healthcare can't. Mistake number three.

Healthcare is a matter of life and death and therefore ought to be available to all. And affordable to all.

Imagine if all education was for profit private education (a goal of the neocons, by the way) - then only the rich could afford to send their kids to school. The poor would be shut out. But we have access to free public education for all. That's the way healthcare should be.

My taxes are spent on the military, on war, on corporate welfare. Lots of things I don't necessarily support. But that is how our government works.

So, if the government uses some of my taxes to help someone afford healthcare, I am okay with that.

Also, another lie about the healthcare reform is that Pres. Obama wants the government to takeover healthcare. Well, that actually happened a long time ago. Medicare, Medicaid and other government programs already pay for almost half of American healthcare, while private insurance pays for barely more than a third of healthcare, the rest being out of pocket.

[BJean 16]

Cleo's: "Imagine if all education was for profit private education (a goal of the neocons, by the way) - then only the rich could afford to send their kids to school. The poor would be shut out. But we have access to free public education for all. That's the way healthcare should be."

One reason private schools are fine with the neocons is because it will keep those poor people in their place - doing the neocons laundry, polishing their shoes, picking up their trash, planting and harvesting their crops, etc.

8 years of the Bush administration - which included a Republican dominated congress - has brought this country into a phase where the rich has been getting richer and the poor poorer and the middle class shrinking. Now we need to get things back on track for most Americans or we're going to end up like Mexico with just two classes, the very rich and the very poor. Have you been watching what's going on down there?

If people keep supporting policies that the Bush administration got going or strengthened, then we will keep getting the results that brought us to the brink. How stupid, how very very stupid, is that?

We need changes all the way around. Not to make this a socialist country, but to make this a country where everyone gets a fair shake. That's what our founders worked for and that's what we Americans have been promised by our Constitution and Bylaws. And it's also what people who flee to this country have been promised. At least the ones who come here legally.

I am thoroughly embarrassed by the greed displayed by the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Mr. Williams, quoted above. Wanna bet how wealthy Mr. Williams is? I don't know but I'll be willing to bet on it.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Here is a video of teabaggers showing their true colors. It is beyond disgusting. About 50 seconds into it you will see them shouting at a man with Parkinson's disease who supports and needs healthcare. They actually throw money at him:

Dispatch Video | The Columbus Dispatch