Health Care

[loserbob 11]

I fogot, I called into a local radio station, the subject was healthcare. I told the host I couldnt understand why the people of the "Tea party were protesting socialized healthcare", most, majority look to be seniors and i would assume on medicare. He told me they didnt want medicare affected(ie sean hannity/glenn beck, scaremongers). I told him "so socialized medicine is ok for them but nobody else should have it. Seems hypocritical to me.You listen to hannity and beck(crying so dramaticaly) they will have you believe the world is going to end tomorrow, we need to bomb everybody.I know none of you listen to or watch rush,hannity,beck but you all say the same things they say. My buddy and I argue about this and I tease him about the rush thing, he says he doesnt listen to these guys but when i use his truck the only channel programed on radio is 104.7(rush, hannity,beck,savage).Im not putting anyone down for it, i listen once in awhile, but just admit you get your info there no matter how skued it might be.

[BJean 16]

Lb, I've even heard people justify war by saying that the military people WANT to go to war. And some who say: Hey, they knew what they were getting into when they joined up!

And you shake your head in disbelief because it doesn't seem possible in this day of high speed internet, cable television and the extent to which people are exposed to world events, that they can stick to such ignorant thoughts and words.

But then you can't get away from the fact that they think it is patriotic to go to war and that men and women dying for our "freedom" is the righteous American way... because people like Dick Cheney, Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the like tell them it's that way every day. And after all, if they say it on the radio and television, it must be true, right?

God help us.

[loserbob 11]

I keep remembering things after i post so here goes again. I have my own plumbing company, i drive a 1998 suburu impreza,2000 honda accord, so im not wasting my healthcare money on big cars,(just off topic for a minute while i remember,speaking of people wanting what they cant have,or afford. You wouldnt believe the people who buy big houses but cant afford to furnish them, i see it every day empty bedrooms,no furniture in game rooms but they have the big house and cars).I agree with bjean your stats are for people with healthcare you (clearly republican), thats probably not fair im sure i sound clearly democrat but im not (indepedent) use polls figuring nobody will call you on it. How can rasmuesson and cnn polls be so far apart, you guys seem to swear by rasmuesson.

[loserbob 11]

These people who say this where probably never in the military.

why do you think its never discussed by vets, its easy to sit in a chair with potato chips and a beer an watch sean hannity glorify war , picture yourself looking through the scope of your sniper rifle, pulling the trigger, having it become so upclose and personal you can see the expression on your enemys face when he takes his last breath. (enemy or not how would it make you feel knowing you killed a human being,21 years old scarred for the rest of your life, not a day goes by you dont think about it and there is no medicine that can help you get over this big empty void you carry for life!!! thats glory. The shame of it is we have alot, thousands of hardened, ruined souls who no matter how they act when in the presence of other people,will always feel that void that i can assure you the average human being god willing, will never get to experience that feeling. I assure you it isny glorious at all! Sorry i dont know where this all came from,not for lapband, please dont glorify war having to kill or maime, or break up families unless its "ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY"

[pattygreen 5]

I get coffee every morning before work. The guy who works there(7-11) is a republican, we discuss politics alot. First off he told me "he aint voting for no bleepin bleep(you get the picture). Then hes mad at the credit card companies and doesnt pay the cards because they raise his interst rates. He also says he doesnt want healthcare(now in present state, pre-reform)because in America we cant be denied medical coverage(going back to pattys response). I explained to him if he has major medical issues he could end up paying health bill forever, he told me he doesnt pay the bills anyway.Who do you think pays them, wonder why healthcare is so expensive and keeps going up! He also said "soldiers should have to go to war, you cant join the military just to have college paid for". Theirs your moral party!

he blames the world for the problems created by himself.

leave it to a liberal to take the least educated person and classify him with the conservative group and say he represents the whole of us. wrong. First of all, I believe that paying my bills is my responsibility whether I agree with the companies policies or not. Personally, I wouldn't use credit cards myself. 2nd, I did not use going to the ER as a reason to not have the HC public option. My reason was mainly to NOT have the government involved in it. As for the 'reform' part of HC, If the bill was so great that they are putting together, then why does everybody fight for a special exemption from it. It must stink. His last statement,

"soldiers should have to go to war, you cant join the military just to have college paid for" I don't even understand what he's trying to say here. If you're a soldier and it is required of you to go to war, then to war you will go. Maybe he means that people shouldn't join the military just to get a free education.

[loserbob 11]

Glorify the soldiers who "should have to go to war" because they joined the militarty, not the war itself. By the way your beer is getting low, you might wanna grab another during next commercial!

[loserbob 11]

yah and my point to him was we dont have to go to war just because we have the most powerful military in the world.(first gulf war, justified Iraq invaded Kuwait). Afghanistan, justified! Operation Iraqi freedom,no proof to justify the origional reason, we didnt, in the begining go in to liberate Iraq, are we better for it today, i say yes but at what cost,ask a family who lost a loved one what they think. Now we dont have a buffer to Iran who will probably have a bomb soon. Not a lot we can do in this politically correct world(what i mean is using all resources at our disposal to deal with iran)because now we are trying to nation build in Afghanistan where there is no concrete plan or solution to get out anytime soon and stretched thin because of 2 wars. Bin laden said in the begining, the way to take down a superpower was to get them into a long drawn out war,ruin their economy, and the will of the people. Remember this idea was pretty effective against another superpower in the 80s. Now 9 years after 9-11, look at the economy of the last real superpower,I dont believe we will suffer same fate, but the terrorists have a very effective war-plan.

going back to my point and 2nd Iraq war.

[loserbob 11]

Also you complain nobody seems to know about the healthcare plan because its 2000 pages. You( "leave it to a conservative" )seem to know an awful lot about it with all your poll results and opinions, how can you have such strong opinions about something you know absolutely nothing about yet(as youve already admitted)even though you contradict yourself every time you put down healthcare with your so called poll results which could be very misleading to someone who doesnt follow it closelyl.( again typical scaremongering tactics to try to get less educated on your side) I "Typical Liberal" dont give so called facts about it because i dont have the inside sources you have who already know much about it.where do you get the inside info? I can tell you status-quo isnt working either, thats why i will wait until the info "given by the anti-christ",(not rush,hannity beck,but again, if beck cries< I might be swayed) is official and complete. Your the moral party who doesnt believe in abortion(Idont either) but my view is I dont have the right to tell a women what to do with her body, I dont know all the circumstances of every or any situation involving abortions although i cant comprehend a situation which requires killing a baby at any stage). But a soldier should have to go to war if he joins the military!

[loserbob 11]

Patty,since you and i seem to be "going at each other", I do appreciate the debate because really i dont have anyone knowledgable to debate with(7-11 guy).I just want to say i probably do lean towards obamas views but i became interested in politics during the 2nd GW election and i did vote for him which taught me that i probably wont vote for lame duck candidates too many times.It will depend on who else is running of course.But i definitely didnt want Kerry either. 2 major differences i have with dems, global warming(biggest scam, money for corrupt, useless United nations). U.N. ok 3, Diplomacy with iran.,ok here is one more, not as much support for Israel as bush admin.(our only true ally in the world).In some of the post im referring to "you" as rep,not you personally. And some remarks are made to dramatize the articles"typical republican"(example)(moral party) there really are no moral people in politics,at least at the federal level,I try to vote for who will benefit me best at the time.I dont expect everyone to agree because everyone has different needs, wants and beliefs. Thanks again for the healthy debate and dont take our differences to heart, You have to admit,its fun reading other people posts about politics and giving a response based on your immediate emotions at that time (then reading later and feeling bad about possibly offending someone).But again thanks for the healthy debate.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

leave it to a liberal to take the least educated person and classify him with the conservative group and say he represents the whole of us. wrong. First of all, I believe that paying my bills is my responsibility whether I agree with the companies policies or not. Personally, I wouldn't use credit cards myself. 2nd, I did not use going to the ER as a reason to not have the HC public option. My reason was mainly to NOT have the government involved in it. As for the 'reform' part of HC, If the bill was so great that they are putting together, then why does everybody fight for a special exemption from it. It must stink. His last statement,

"soldiers should have to go to war, you cant join the military just to have college paid for" I don't even understand what he's trying to say here. If you're a soldier and it is required of you to go to war, then to war you will go. Maybe he means that people shouldn't join the military just to get a free education.

Actually, the 7-11 guy is more representative of those who think like you than you are willing to admit. I have yet to see one factual sign or statement coming from the protesting teabaggers concerning healthcare.

All I have seen is emotional buzzwords meant to incite, inflame and distort.

Words like: socialism, nazi, death panel, rationing, government take over, the "n" word, etc..

Of course there are no concrete citings of any of these things in the actual bill. There doesn't have to be. Just keep saying these things over and over, have the media report on them and stupid people will begin to believe them.

Now, if you want a concrete case of the government coming between a person and their healthcare there isn't a more glaring example than the Terry Shiavo case.

Across the country, everyday, people make the decision to take a family member off of life support. This is a difficult decision but it is made in private and without media attention.

Not so with Terry Schiavo. When her husband tried to remove life support, the republicans in CONGRESS, flew back to D.C. for a SPECIAL SESSION to address this issue. Sen. Frist (a doctor) tried to diagnose Terry from afar, going so far as to say she could talk (no true), sing (not true) and move around (not true). They tried to stop her husband from removing the life support.

When her autopsy was done, it showed that she had no brain activity and hadn't for a long time, something her doctors had said all along.

But here is an example of the GOVERNMENT COMING BETWEEN A PERSON AND THEIR HEALTHCARE and where where all those teabaggers then protesting that? HMMM.

Once again, I will say: If it weren't for hypocrisy, the republicans would have nothing.

[pattygreen 5]

Also you complain nobody seems to know about the healthcare plan because its 2000 pages. You( "leave it to a conservative" )seem to know an awful lot about it with all your poll results and opinions, how can you have such strong opinions about something you know absolutely nothing about yet(as youve already admitted)even though you contradict yourself every time you put down healthcare with your so called poll results which could be very misleading to someone who doesnt follow it closelyl.( again typical scaremongering tactics to try to get less educated on your side) I "Typical Liberal" dont give so called facts about it because i dont have the inside sources you have who already know much about it.where do you get the inside info? I can tell you status-quo isnt working either, thats why i will wait until the info "given by the anti-christ",(not rush,hannity beck,but again, if beck cries< I might be swayed) is official and complete. Your the moral party who doesnt believe in abortion(Idont either) but my view is I dont have the right to tell a women what to do with her body, I dont know all the circumstances of every or any situation involving abortions although i cant comprehend a situation which requires killing a baby at any stage). But a soldier should have to go to war if he joins the military!

All I needed to know about HC reform was that the government wanted to have their own plan and be in charge of it and eventually get rid of all other HI plans and be the only option that the people had. That's all I needed to know to be against it! That's socialism. Never mind the fact that now that it is not going to happen, they are meeting behind closed doors to reform what's left and giving the unions and others opportunity to be exempt from their plans through 'deals'. It's been one corrupt bribe to the next with these democrats! All Obama wants to be able to say is "Look! I reformed Health Care!" Even if the reform stinks.

[loserbob 11]

Bjean could you please elaborate, because im already as scared as the next person and had to really convince myself,im scheduled for march 3rd. My dr told me they dont get too many people as healthy as me.I have a poor family history and wanted to avoid problems.I do have doubts an uncertainty so any info greatly appreciated. Thanhs

[BJean 16]

Didn't mean to scare you. Just wanted to encourage you to read everything you can get your hands on and talk to some people in your area who have had the band and even those who have had problems with their band. You just need to go into it with all the information you need to make the best decision for YOU.

When I decided I wanted the band, all I read about or allowed myself to read, were the glowing reports of huge weight losses and people saying it was the best thing they ever did. If there was one hint of negativity, even from my doctor's office, I totally shut my mind to it.

My regular doctor told me not to do it, but I thought he was just enjoying treating me for all the side effects from obesity. How's that for stupidity on my part!

There is an entire website for people who have had the band and due to some pretty horrendous side effects from the band, they're either having them taken out or having them taken out and getting some other bariatric surgery, like the sleeve.

You don't have to go far to read some glowing reports here at LBT too. Some people think of their band as their best friend. A lot of people have had life-changing success and are at or below their goal weight because of the help that the band gave them.

So I was only trying to encourage you to learn all you can so that you won't have any surprises. Know that you will still have to do the work of dieting and exercising to make the band work for you. No one claims that it is a magic bullet to shoot the fat off your body. Everyone agrees that it takes some hard work and determination to get the job done. And those were some of the things that I closed my mind to.

Best of luck to you on your road to health and well-being!

I have enjoyed reading your posts, by the way. You make some good points.

[BJean 16]

And Bob, when your doc told you that you're one of the healthiest people seeking the band, is he talking about your weight? If you don't have a lot to lose, try to focus on being healthy - not losing weight. The band is a pretty drastic step if you can be healthy without it.

But I no longer believe in dieting. It never works forever. Eating healthy is what works. And getting your motor running - increasing the rate of your metabolism - is what will help you become healthy, wealthy and wise. I added those last two because they sound good. :-)

[Cleo's Mom 257]

All I needed to know about HC reform was that the government wanted to have their own plan and be in charge of it and eventually get rid of all other HI plans and be the only option that the people had. That's all I needed to know to be against it! That's socialism. Never mind the fact that now that it is not going to happen, they are meeting behind closed doors to reform what's left and giving the unions and others opportunity to be exempt from their plans through 'deals'. It's been one corrupt bribe to the next with these democrats! All Obama wants to be able to say is "Look! I reformed Health Care!" Even if the reform stinks.

I'm calling you out on this PG. I want you to cite specific language in any of the proposed healthcare reform bills where it says the plan was to have ONLY a government option and put all the other private plans out of business.

If you say that it wasn't in the bill, but that was their intent, then it's just so much more BS.

Fact: The public option was going to be available to those who were uninsured. That was about 5% of the people.

Fact: The government already runs healthcare via medicaid and medicare. Neither one has put the private insurance companies out of business and medicare is very popular among the recipients.

Fact: The republicans used every procedural roadblock at their disposal to stop this bill, causing delay after delay and requiring the 1AM senate vote in order to meet required timelines.

Fact: The democrats are now using procedures at THEIR disposal to get this bill reconciled. Since the republicans have nothing to offer but obstructions, there is no need for them to be included.

Fact: If you think that when the republicans were in the majority that they didn't execute behind door deals with special interest groups then you are beyond naive.

All you needed to know about healthcare reform to be opposed to it was that it was supported by Pres. Obama and the democrats. Who are you trying to fool?