Health Care

[tdslf1 0]

Hey All,

Come back and witness another bad marriage!! Bonzi!! Big generalizations hitting the board. Welfare hags and Rove playbooks. What's a Rove playbook? I think it's a Cheney playbook today. Anyhoo, who thinks healthcare will change to the House version and succeed with the public option?

[btrieger 21]

[pattygreen 5]

The mainstream media has a distinct bias. The values that drive the modern media today are largely secular and liberal. They are secular in the sense that they tend to interpret political events from a humanistic viewpoint rather than a biblical one. They are liberal in a sense that they generally promote big government and the view that crime and other social problems are the fault of groups (like society or the rich) or things (like guns or drugs) rather than individuals.

The government and the media often cooperate with each other for their mutual benefit. The media needs the government for"official" information on political issues and events, and the government needs the media for favorable coverage of its policies in order to maintain public support. Thus, the news may be biased in favor of a policy out of obligation to a helpful politician.

[pattygreen 5]

Christ has called his followers to be "salt" and "light" in our world. Because many moral issues are also political issues, Christians need to be involved in politics. We must pray, work, and use the freedoms we have in America to keep our country from succumbing to humanistic ideologies. Our country needs moral and righteous people to run for political offices and serve in government. Proverbs 29:2 tells us: "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn." It also states: "Righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people." (proverbs 14:34) Nations are righteous only so long as the people in them are righteous. Government always reflects the charachter of its people; therefore, our government needs the influence of those who love God and desire to see righteousnesss reign in our land. This is the conservatives reason for voting for those who are morally upstanding. Even though Christian people are not without wrong doings in their life, the chances are better that a Christian will do the "right" thing. Liberals and democrats tend to not have good morals for the most part. I see it in their stand on issues that are political. It is not hidden. They desire most of the things that God deems wrong to be acceptable and legalized. They feel that these things are their "right".

[tdslf1 0]

PG,

Have no idea what you babble about but can we stick to the topic. Healthcare needs many advocates on both sides and what I think most people can all agree on is that people need healthcare if they can't afford it or ar incapable of getting. Lets try to solve the problem from that premise.

[btrieger 21]

I think most people can all agree on is that people need healthcare if they can't afford it or ar incapable of getting. Lets try to solve the problem from that premise.

I think you are making a really big assumption there!

Some of us think that if the poor want health care that they should get jobs or better jobs and pay for it. We can't just keep giving them hand outs so they can keep breeding and needing more and more hand outs.

[pattygreen 5]

Absolutely true. People who need health care neeed to motivate themselves to better their own lives. They need to work and pay for their own insurance, just like everyone else. I didn't always have HI. When I was younger, I had a job as a bus driver for the public schools. They didn't provide us with insurance because I was PT, so I applied for FT work and therefore got the insurance. I actually had to work more for it. Wow! Now that's a concept.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I think you are making a really big assumption there!

Some of us think that if the poor want health care that they should get jobs or better jobs and pay for it. We can't just keep giving them hand outs so they can keep breeding and needing more and more hand outs.

It's you who makes the really big assumptions here. 80% of those without health insurance are employed. Many employers cannot afford to offer health insurance due to the rising costs of premiums due to the greed of the insurance companies. And most of the people who have lost their jobs have lost their health insurance.

The government gives corporation tons of welfare. And their CEO's are greedy and then get out with golden parachutes. They have great health insurance.

What makes our country different than developing countries is that we have a safety net and support system. We take care of the poor, elderly, disabled. That is what sets us apart. It's what makes us better. I don't want to be like countries that don't take care of the least among us.

None of you knows when the tables will turn and you might be someone who needs help. You can be judgemental and speak of those who receive help or benefits as if they are a lesser form of humans. But many of them had jobs, insurance, homes and then some incident happened to change all that.

Yes, there are people who exploit the system and try to get something for nothing, but that happens in corporate america, too, with larger $$$ losses - like what happened with the recent greed of wall street.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Absolutely true. People who need health care neeed to motivate themselves to better their own lives. They need to work and pay for their own insurance, just like everyone else. I didn't always have HI. When I was younger, I had a job as a bus driver for the public schools. They didn't provide us with insurance because I was PT, so I applied for FT work and therefore got the insurance. I actually had to work more for it. Wow! Now that's a concept.

How fortunate that there was a full time position available that you could move in to. Otherwise you would have had to stay PT without insurance and if you needed healthcare, would have just had to pay for it out of pocket. Good thing you didn't get cancer and have to pay for that. I heard it can be a tad expensive!!

We better get the word out quick to all PT workers: Hey you slackers - just apply for FT work and get that insurance. It works everytime.

[btrieger 21]

Those in jobs without insurance should either put a little money aside each pay day or find a job that offers health insurance. They aren't my problem.

If universal health care is established in this country then the standards of medical care will drop. Doctors would end up being paid little more than teachers and the good ones will quit, just like the good teachers.

We hear about foreigner dignitaries coming to America for health care all of the time. Why don't they just stay home or go to one of the countries that institutes universal health care? Because our s is top notch and I want it to stay that way.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Those in jobs without insurance should either put a little money aside each pay day or find a job that offers health insurance. They aren't my problem.

If universal health care is established in this country then the standards of medical care will drop. Doctors would end up being paid little more than teachers and the good ones will quit, just like the good teachers.

We hear about foreigner dignitaries coming to America for health care all of the time. Why don't they just stay home or go to one of the countries that institutes universal health care? Because our s is top notch and I want it to stay that way.

Do you think there is an abundance of good paying jobs with health insurance going unfilled? Don't you think those in jobs without insurance look for better jobs? THERE ARE NONE!!

And with the high cost of health insurance, "putting a little money aside each week" is not enough to purchase an individual private plan.

Those who are uninsured ARE your problem and you are paying for them every time they go to the ER and can't pay the bill. Because if they had the money for the ER bill , then they would have money for health insurance - and they don't.

My sil is a police officer. Until 5 years ago, he worked part-time at two different police stations. Because he was PT he had no health insurance. He was actually working a full time schedule, though, between the two jobs. Yes, he was looking for full time work but at the time there was none. And on his pay, he couldn't afford to purchase private health insurance. He had to go to the ER for an emergency injury (non-work related) and they charged him a fortune. Did you know that if you don't have insurance you are charged more for a procedure than if you do??

I resent the implication that somehow he, putting his life on the line each day for people like you, was lazy and just not trying hard enough.

We have excellent health care for those who can afford it. Do you really think those who are uninsured or underinsured get the same healthcare as those with great coverage? The WHO ranks us 37th in healthcare, behind Slovenia.

Doctors are going to quit if we have universal coverage? And do what, become a teacher?

[btrieger 21]

We are never going to see eye to eye on this. I am selfish in the fact that I care about myself and those close to me. I don't have the time or motivation to worry about everybody else.

Support is a two way street. For instance, I am on this site supporting people because I am getting their support as well. What do the uninsured have to offer me?

I also have a deep hate for the poor. My father worked 3 jobs to make ends meet and I have done the same thing at times. There is no reason that anybody can't.

I know people that have been on public assistance for generations and have no intention of ever working. They have no reason to. Clinton pretended to put a limit on welfare when all he really did is move all of the scum to disability where there was no time limit.

I've gone to the ER bleeding after being bitten in the face by a dog and had to sit in the waiting room while the nasty little welfare scum lined up in front of me because they had the sniffles.

There are probably open police jobs all over the country. Maybe all it would take for your son in law to get a full time job as a policeman is to move. I can't speak for him but if I were him, if I couldn't find something local, I would pick up and move for the good of my family.

And from what I have read; if you don't have insurance, you are actually charged less for procedures than they would charge the insurance company.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I think the fact that you said you have a deep seated hatred for the poor and are selfish with a "what can you do for me?" attitude says it all. At least you're honest about it. And because of it, you're right - we will never see eye to eye.

[tdslf1 0]

Btrie,

I think you sumed it up when you said you didn't give a damn about anybody else but you and your needs. I, on the other hand, care about my neighbor as well as myself. Thus I wish for all to have some form of healthcare, regardless. Oh, by the way, there are some people in the world who will never be able to make enough money to afford healthcare. Just a fact. ALso, nothing wrong with the contempt you show. Just stop having arguments about something you don't give a damn about because you have no critical solutions. I expect since you don't give a damn and in my book shouldn't have a damn thing to say on the subject, you should place your energy elsewhere. Here, I look for a discussion and ideas, not "i don't give a damn". Fug it, why did you come to speak on a subject you don't give a damn about, except when it relates to you AND have NO solutions or ideas that are constructive? Pleeze don't say because I can.......that would be sooo lame.

[btrieger 21]

I do give a damn! It is going to cost me money.

If you care so much about these people, start some kind of fund for them and let those that care or pretend they care can pay for their health care. Get you hand out of my pocket!

Also, I never said I only care about my needs. I also care about my family and friends.