Health Care

[BJean 16]

patty I hope you won't be offended if I tell you I just don't believe you.

[pattygreen 5]

patty I hope you won't be offended if I tell you I just don't believe you.

No offense taken. Your opinion of me stems from my views on many controversial issues alone. You don't know me personally, or see me in my home, church or community. Imagine if all that you knew of someone were their stand on the issues. You wouldn't really know them. But, I am one to try to speak only the truth in life. If I tell you that I pray for our president, and want him to suceed, I mean it. I can do that and still have a conflict of interest with him. You may not believe me, but I pray for everyone I talk with on these forums. I don't agree with them, but that doesn't keep me from asking God to bless them and show them his truths.

[BJean 16]

You're absolutely right. I do not know you. But I do have a pretty good profile of you from the things you post here at LBT. It's been many, many months and unless you've been insincere in what you've posted, your inner core is revealed for all the readers to know. Just as I think mine has been.

Thanks for your kind prayers. I too pray that you will open your heart and mind to be a more generous person and that you will be less judgemental in your dealings with others. And I hope and pray that you and others who share your extremist views, will open yourselves to guidance from the Lord in expanding your narrow interpretation the Bible and grow to be more loving and peaceful people.

[tdslf1 0]

I gotta say this. Those Rethuglicans are good. They took the only issue that would make the kooks come out and made it the only talking point they have against health reform. The abortion language. Never mind that health care reform is about getting people insured who don't have it. I love the way they keep getting kicked in the teeth as the party of NO. Keep saying no and the road will get even harder. Or better still, keep knocking your head against the wall. Progress has to happen. This bill is not the end of improving healthcare, this passing of the bill will be the beginning because I am still not satisfied, but it's a start.

[BJean 16]

The religious right, which has taken over the Republican party, has as its main action plan, making abortion illegal again. That is more important to them than any other single issue. They sometimes soft-pedal it so as to not scare people off, but it is what they live for... to see abortion made illegal again.

They will not be satisfied or placated in any way with a bill before them than to try to tag on something that will make abortion illegal and stem cell research banned. So it is no surprise that this has reared its' ugly head with the health care bill (such as it currently is.)

I'm very unhappy with what they're proposing in this bill. But I also know I will have to be patient because their lobby is far more powerful and influencial than the progressives.

And as for the abortion ban, we Americans were raised on guilt, churches continue to pile it on every week, and they do all they can to make us feel guilty for wanting it to be every woman's choice.

It's similar to when the Republicans decided that if we didn't support the war in Iraq and George Bush, we were not patriotic and we didn't care about the men and women who serve our country in the armed forces. They even made a lapel pin a barometer for measuring patriotism. I think Americans are waking up to all this nonsensical razzamataz, but too many people are drinking the extremist kool-aid because they think it is the Christian thing to do.

Who wants to be called a baby killer? Who wants to be labeled unpatriotic?

Those Republicans... they're very good at what they do.

[pattygreen 5]

[quote} That is more important to them than any other single issue. They sometimes soft-pedal it so as to not scare people off, but it is what they live for... to see abortion made illegal again.

If you saw the issue of abortion as the death of a baby that is caused at the hand of it's mother, you would understand some people who are against it and why. But, all you can see is the "rights" of the woman. You are blind to the 'rights" of the child. I understand that you don't believe that when it's in the womb, that it is a living being, only when it gets through that lovely birth canal can it now be deemed a human being, but some people don't agree with you. Some people don't like murder and feel that since babies can't protect themselves that adults should do it for them. If only you liberals could see the issue from the conservatives viewpoint, but I guess their viewpoint isn't worthy in your eyes. What a shame.

[pattygreen 5]

The people in Nebraska will now NEVER have to pay for their medicare in exchange for their senators vote! Bribery. This is what the deceitful, wicked, democrats need to do to get the things they want passed. "Screw the people, and what they want, we don't work for you really." Bribery, and more than once, and threatening. Talk about corruption in Congress and in the House. Wait 2010, just wait! Imagine if this were a legalized abortion bill being overturned. Dems would be in an uproar over these sort of bribes, but when it's them benefiting from it, it's perfectly okay. This form of governing has to end. Obama, as the leader, needs to keep from signing any bill that gets to him in this bribery sort of fashion, and if he doesn't, then he needs to go as well!!!!

Edited December 20, 2009 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

<H3 id=preview>Article Preview

TRIED TO BRIBE GOVERNOR.; Gov. John V. Mickey of Nebraska Says One Would-Be Office Holder Offered Him $1,000.

Special to The New York Times.

May 16, 1903, Saturday

Page 1, 293 words

OMAHA, Neb., May 15. -- Nebraska political circles were shaken to their foundations to-day when Gov. John V. Mickey announced that a number of attempts to bribe him had been made by would-be officeholders. Four instances did the Governor name wherein he had been offered money for appointments, but he refused to make public the names of those attempting the bribe.

..............................................

What a comparison to today. When we used to be honest and decent and refuse such bribes, today it is openly paraded as if acceptable and good and a way to do business. Today we call it "negotiations". This is exactly what I am talking about when God tells us that as we get closer to his return men will be ever more wicked and what is good will be seen as evil and what is evil will be seen as good. I suppose you all will be seeing this as 'good'. (this is where I roll my eyes at you)

</H3>

[tdslf1 0]

Lets get an understanding right now. Rethuglicans don't give a damn about the religious right. They give a damn about the insurance companies just like the Democrats only give a damn about them as well. That is what I meant about the Repuglicans knowing what they are doing. It's just like they ring a dog whistle for these religious right characters, and they respond. Let's ring the abortion bill on the right so the dogs will run in that direction. Then they won't see what we are really doing over on the left. The Repuglicans know this bill has nothing significantly to do with abortion and yet here we are going over that old road again. They are good at rallying their base and the base has no clue they are being treated like Pavlov's dog. None of them give a dam about the average joe. The White House made a deal with big Pharma months ago. The Rethugs are owned by the insurance company's, right along with Leiberman. Ben Nelson does not give a damn about the religious right or too much about abortion. Yet the religious right seems to think so. He sure did turn his revolt because of abortion language into a windfall for his state. What happened to that love of religious right in than moment? And please don't say he is a Democrat, because he is not. He is a politician who plays both sides to his advantage. That makes him an equal opportunity bell ringer. Religion don't mean jack sheet. It's a tool to control the wacky base and it works. If I could bump the head of the religious right anytime I wanted to by ringing the abortion bell at will, I would do it to.

Edited December 20, 2009 by tdslf1

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Anyone who doesn't think that repubicans make behind closed door deals to seal the deal are very naive. That's how politics works. It's an ugly business. And always will be as long as it takes increasing amounts of money to win an election or re-election. They always say you shouldn't see how two things are made: sausage and laws.

[pattygreen 5]

Anyone who doesn't think that repubicans make behind closed door deals to seal the deal are very naive. That's how politics works. It's an ugly business. And always will be as long as it takes increasing amounts of money to win an election or re-election. They always say you shouldn't see how two things are made: sausage and laws.

I suppose that justifies giving every single person(1,783,432) in that whole State FREE medicare FOREVER!!!!!! What's that gonna cost the rest of us? huh? It's totally unthinkable that Obama and his Congressional gang would resort to such a thing. I suppose this is acceptable to you?

[BJean 16]

patty: "If you saw the issue of abortion as the death of a baby that is caused at the hand of it's mother, you would understand some people who are against it and why. But, all you can see is the "rights" of the woman. You are blind to the 'rights" of the child. I understand that you don't believe that when it's in the womb, that it is a living being, only when it gets through that lovely birth canal can it now be deemed a human being, but some people don't agree with you. Some people don't like murder and feel that since babies can't protect themselves that adults should do it for them. If only you liberals could see the issue from the conservatives viewpoint, but I guess their viewpoint isn't worthy in your eyes. What a shame."

Patty what you don't seem to be able to grasp is that we totally understand your reasoning and your belief that an abortion is the murder of an innocent child. We know that you believe that a fertilized egg has just the same rights to life as a fully developed human being (the woman). We understand and we sympathize with your feelings on this issue.

Our position hasn't nearly as much to do with whether we think that a fertilized egg is a human being or not. We know that it is "human tissue" and have no quarrel with that.

What we believe is that the government has no right to make decisions for women in this country when it has to do with THEIR health and reproductive organs. It is wrong for the long arm of the law to extend itself into the vagina of a woman and make a determination whether a baby is carried to term or not. This is a personal issue - not a governmental one. There are many, many reasons why a woman might choose to terminate a pregnancy.

You've decided that it is a matter of convenience and that is why you cannot understand the medical implications and risk to women that could cause such a decision to be made.

We have no quarrel with the religious right to do all you can to help women and babies that may be in jeopardy in this world. But when you've set yourself up to steal away a woman's right to life, no matter what the circumstances or conditions might be, by FORCING her to carry a baby to term, then that's wrong. And we will fight you forever over this.

Women are good people. They are religious people, they love god and children. They are your mother, your sister, your niece, your aunt, your cousin and your best friend. Counsel them if you feel you should, but you have no right to enact laws that place control over their reproductive organs, just because you believe that a fertilized egg or embryo has all the rights that a fully deleloped human being has. But when you understand that women will have abortions, whether they are legal or not, you will understand that your job, if you see it as saving embryos, is to be done through love and compassion and assistance, not FORCE! Force does not work.

[tdslf1 0]

It's amazing. They don't want the government to have control in healthcare but have no problem using the government for their agenda of giving them control over a womans body. I don't get into whether a baby is a baby at time of concept. That is above my pay grade. But I do say no one should have the right to tell me what I can do to my body because I and I alone know what's best for my body. Keep your religious beliefs out of my hospital room. MY ROOM not the governments nor the religious bases. Hypocrites. They want the government to control that. Fat chance.

[pattygreen 5]

This is a personal issue - not a governmental one.

I disagree. It is the governments job to impose laws against murder. But, for the sake of arguing with you about abortion, because there is already a thread for that, let's just say that you are right, and it is a personal issue.

As are many issues, like whether a person wants to purchase HI or not. Or whether a person wants the government telling them when and if they can have a procedure or not, cause if the government gets into the HC business, that is what they will do. especially if Obama's public plan comes to fruition, because he has already stated that this public option is a stepping stone to what he really desires, which is government control of all HC. (socialized medicine) How is one issue personal, and the other, not? Is it because the one is personal to YOU?

[pattygreen 5]

{QUOTE} Force does not work.

It works for other laws. If you murder, the gov. forces you to go to jail. If you steal, the gov. forces you to go to jail, and so on. Therefore, if you kill a baby, you should go to jail. Committing a wrong should always have a consequence.

I told myself I wouldn't get into abortion here. so I wont.