Health Care

[pattygreen 5]

I'll say it again, this time short and sweet so you don't have to strain your eyes to read all the proof I presented:

The CBO DIRECTOR, Elmendorf, Made a presentation that obliterates the claims of the President and his allies about the effects of the new laws on federal health spending and the budget.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I'll say it again, this time short and sweet so you don't have to strain your eyes to read all the proof I presented:

The CBO DIRECTOR, Elmendorf, Made a presentation that obliterates the claims of the President and his allies about the effects of the new laws on federal health spending and the budget.

What a hypocrite!!! Time and time again on these boards you have dismissed anything the CBO has published concerning scoring the healthcare bill. You rolled your eyes, called them just another government agency, blah, blah, blah and mocked those who believed them.

Now you want to quote them? No, you don't get to do that. I am mocking you for being a hypocrite. :thumbup:

[Cleo's Mom 257]

That's right. Just ignore the proof I gave you concerning the "true" cost of HC, and its effects for Americans and continue to post your lies.

That's right, just ignore all the proof I posted concerning the cost of healthcare while continuing to post your lies. :thumbup:

I wouldn't care if the healthcare cost would not be totally paid for as currently presented. Let those unnecessary tax cuts to the rich expire at the end of the year to help with the cost of things and help reduce the deficit.

What's that sound I hear? Why it's the conservatives, teabaggers and elected republicans howling about that possibility. Standing up for the rich, as usual.

[BJean 16]

The Republicans are experts at manufacturing lies and unreal scenarios to scare you. And you buy them, hook, line and sinker. Like the typical sheep to slaughter.

[pattygreen 5]

What a hypocrite!!! Time and time again on these boards you have dismissed anything the CBO has published concerning scoring the healthcare bill. You rolled your eyes, called them just another government agency, blah, blah, blah and mocked those who believed them.

Now you want to quote them? No, you don't get to do that. I am mocking you for being a hypocrite. :thumbup:

Yes I do! And I just did it! The CBO is YOUR truth about your beloved, trustworthy and faithful government that you depend on for your very being. That's why when they justify my points, I will use them to show you how wrong you were! They are who you trust.

BTW, they are just another government agency. But one that you trust for facts.

[pattygreen 5]

[quote} What's that sound I hear? Why it's the conservatives, teabaggers and elected republicans howling about that possibility. Standing up for the rich, as usual.

Is there something wrong with being rich? All people are born into this world with nothing. Each has their own opportunity and incentive in life to work hard or be creative and build an empire if he desires, or to live in a cabin in the woods on the bare minimum if he so chooses. What's wrong with being rich?

[pattygreen 5]

The Republicans are experts at manufacturing lies and unreal scenarios to scare you. And you buy them, hook, line and sinker. Like the typical sheep to slaughter.

And you're a liberal sheep following Cleo's every word straight to the slaughter.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

[quote} What's that sound I hear? Why it's the conservatives, teabaggers and elected republicans howling about that possibility. Standing up for the rich, as usual.

Is there something wrong with being rich?There is nothing wrong with being rich as long as you pay your fair share and don't expect others to make it easier for you to accumulate more weath. That's what the 2 bush tax cuts for the rich did. Someone had to make up for that lost revenue and we are living the effects of that lost revenue every day. All people are born into this world with nothing. Are you seriously that dense? Think Bill Gates son came into this world with nothing? Think all those kids of those Arab oil Sheiks came into the world with nothing? Think all the children of wealthy entreprenears came into this world with nothing? Each has their own opportunity and incentive in life to work hard or be creative and build an empire if he desires, or to live in a cabin in the woods on the bare minimum if he so chooses. What's wrong with being rich?

Most of the wealthy in this country got that way from investments and the low taxes they pay on them not hard work.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Yes I do! And I just did it! The CBO is YOUR truth about your beloved, trustworthy and faithful government that you depend on for your very being. That's why when they justify my points, I will use them to show you how wrong you were! They are who you trust.

BTW, they are just another government agency. But one that you trust for facts.

Here's what he said:

Health Costs and the Federal Budget

On Wednesday I spoke at a conference on the health care system hosted by the Institute of Medicine. My presentation dealt with health care costs and the federal budget. The central challenge is straightforward and stark: The rising costs of health care will put tremendous pressure on the federal budget during the next few decades and beyond.

In CBO’s judgment, the health legislation enacted earlier this year does not substantially diminish that pressure. In fact, CBO estimated that the health legislation will increase the federal budgetary commitment to health care (which CBO defines as the sum of net federal outlays for health programs and tax preferences for health care) by nearly $400 billion during the 2010-2019 period. Looking further ahead, CBO estimated that the legislation would reduce the federal budgetary commitment to health care in the following decade—if the provisions of the legislation remain unchanged throughout that entire period. CBO also estimated that the legislation will reduce budget deficits by about $140 billion during the 2010-2019 period and by an amount in a broad range around one-half percent of gross domestic product (GDP) during the following decade—again, under the assumption that the legislation remains in force as enacted.

The projected reductions in budget deficits and in the federal budgetary commitment to health care during the decade beyond the 10-year budget window are steps in the direction of sustainable fiscal policy. However, they are small steps relative to the length of the journey that will be needed to achieve sustainability. If the tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003 are extended, (not if I or other liberal democrats have anything to say about it, which we do) the alternative minimum tax is indexed for inflation, and no other changes are made to current laws regarding taxes and spending, the budget deficit in 2020 would be about 6 percent of GDP and rising. Because federal health care programs make up a large share of the federal budget, putting that budget on a sustainable path would almost certainly require a significant reduction in the growth of federal spending on health care relative to the amounts projected under current law (including this year’s health legislation).

In considering the opportunities for achieving that reduction in spending growth, there are grounds for both optimism and pessimism. On the upside, there is considerable agreement that a substantial share of current spending on health care contributes little if anything to people’s health, and providers and health analysts are making significant efforts to make the health system more efficient. On the downside, it is not clear what specific policies the federal government can adopt to generate fundamental changes in the health system; that is, it is not clear what specific policies would translate the potential for significant cost savings into reality. Moreover, efforts to reduce costs substantially would increase the risk that people would not get some health care they need or would like to receive. If we had passed a public option there would be considerable savings.

So, I don't see anything in here to support your "in your face" posts about the cost of healthcare from the CBO director. Just another neocon hypocrite who cherry picks intelligence, oops, I mean data.

And btw - it's your federal government that you depend on for your very being, if I do.

[pattygreen 5]

Most of the wealthy in this country got that way from investments and the low taxes they pay on them not hard work.

Not true. I have a millionaire friend. She got wealthy from working hard and long hours on her farm. She sold the food she and her hired hands produced. She saved all her money. I know another millionaire lady who was a single woman and was a school teacher. She lived frugally and saved all her money all her life. She was 96 when she died. Her family had no idea she was that wealthy, cause she didn't live like it. My mother ion law worked for her taking care of her at the end of her life. Even if they invested their money and it grew, what business is that of yours. We are all allowed to make our money grow through investments. That's like gambling your money. If the investment pays off, you win. If it doesn't, you lose. That's the chance you take with your money.

People who are born into money are no different than anyone else. We all have a right to leave our money to our children.

Edited June 6, 2010 by pattygreen

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Not true. I have a millionaire friend. She got wealthy from working hard and long hours on her farm. She sold the food she and her hired hands produced. She saved all her money. I know another millionaire lady who was a single woman and was a school teacher. She lived frugally and saved all her money all her life. She was 96 when she died. Her family had no idea she was that wealthy, cause she didn't live like it. My mother ion law worked for her taking care of her at the end of her life. Even if they invested their money and it grew, what business is that of yours. We are all allowed to make our money grow through investments. That's like gambling your money. If the investment pays off, you win. If it doesn't, you lose. That's the chance you take with your money.

People who are born into money are no different than anyone else. We all have a right to leave our money to our children.

That's different than your saying everyone is born with nothing. And people who are born into money don't have to work for it, like everyone else.

The following illustrates how neocons and republicans allow the rich to get richer while the rest have to pick up the slack - the middle class has had declining earning power for years and it's the fault of the conservative, help the rich get richer agenda of the republicans.

ONLY ESTATES worth more than $1.5 million are taxed. That’s less than 1% of all estates. Still, repealing the estate tax will cost the government at least $55 billion a year.

ONLY 3% OF STUDENTS at the top 146 colleges come from families in the bottom income quartile; only 10% come from the bottom half.

BUSH’S TAX CUTS GIVE a 2-child family earning $1 million an extra $86,722—or Harvard tuition, room, board, and an iMac G5 for both kids.

A 2-CHILD family earning $50,000 gets $2,050—or 1/5 the cost of public college for one kid.

THIS YEAR, Donald Trump will earn $1.5 million an hour to speak at Learning Annex seminars.

ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION, the federal minimum wage has fallen 42% since its peak in 1968.

IF THE $5.15 HOURLY minimum wage had risen at the same rate as CEO compensation since 1990, it would now stand at $23.03.

A MINIMUM WAGE employee who works 40 hours a week for 51 weeks a year goes home with $10,506 before taxes.

SUCH A WORKER would take 7,000 years to earn Oracle CEO Larry Ellison’s yearly compensation.

ELLISON RECENTLY posed in Vanity Fair with his $300 million, 454-foot yacht, which he noted is “really only the size of a very large house.”

ONLY THE WEALTHIEST 20% of Americans spend more on entertainment than on health care.

THE $17,530 EARNED by the average Wal-Mart employee last year was $1,820 below the poverty line for a family of 4.

5 OF AMERICA’S 10 richest people are Wal-Mart heirs.

PUBLIC COMPANIES spend 10% of their earnings compensating their top 5 executives.

1,730 BOARD MEMBERS of the nation’s 1,000 leading companies sit on the boards of 4 or more other corporations—including half of Coca-Cola’s 14-person board.

THE BIDDER who won a round of golf with Tiger Woods for $30,100 at a 2004 Buick charity auction could deduct all but about $200.

TIGER MADE $87 million in 2005, all but $12 million from endorsements and appearance fees.

THE 5TH LEADING philanthropist last year was Boone Pickens, in part due to his $165 million gift to Oklahoma State University’s golf program.

WITHIN AN HOUR, OSU invested it in a hedge fund Pickens controls. Thanks to a Katrina relief provision, his “gift” was also 100% deductible.

LAST YEAR 250 COMPANIES gave top execs between $50,000 and $1 million worth of wholly personal flights on corporate jets.

THIS PERK is 66% more costly to companies whose CEO belongs to out-of-state golf clubs.

THE U.S. GOVERNMENT spends $500,000 on 8 security screeners who speed execs from a Wall Street helipad to American’s JFK terminal.

UNITED HAS CUT the pensions and salaries of most employees but promised 400 top executives 8% of the shares it expects to issue upon emerging from bankruptcy.

UNITED’S TOP 8 execs will also get a bonus of between 55% and 100% of their salaries.

IN 2002, “turnaround artist” Robert Miller dumped Bethlehem Steel’s pension obligation, allowing “vulture investor” Wilbur L. Ross to buy steel stock and sell it at a 1,000% profit.

IN 2005, DELPHI HIRED Miller for $4.5 million. After Ross said he might buy Delphi if its labor costs fell, Miller demanded wage cuts of up to 63% and dumped the pension obligation.

10 FORMER ENRON directors agreed to pay shareholders a $13 million settlement—which is 10% of what they made by dumping stock while lying about the company’s health.

POOR AMERICANS spend 1/4 of their income on residential energy costs.

EXXON’S 2005 PROFIT of $36.13 billion is more than the GDP of 2/3 of the world’s nations.

CEO PAY AMONG military contractors has tripled since 2001. For David Brooks, the CEO of bulletproof vest maker DHB, it’s risen 13,233%.

We all pay for this in one way or another. Don't think it's just private money. It's corporate welfare in many cases. And it's obscene. And it's unfair, and that's the problem I have with the rich.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Not true. I have a millionaire friend. She got wealthy from working hard and long hours on her farm. She sold the food she and her hired hands produced. She saved all her money. I know another millionaire lady who was a single woman and was a school teacher. She lived frugally and saved all her money all her life. She was 96 when she died. Her family had no idea she was that wealthy, cause she didn't live like it. My mother ion law worked for her taking care of her at the end of her life. Even if they invested their money and it grew, what business is that of yours. We are all allowed to make our money grow through investments. That's like gambling your money. If the investment pays off, you win. If it doesn't, you lose. That's the chance you take with your money.

People who are born into money are no different than anyone else. We all have a right to leave our money to our children.

You always stick up for the rich and bash the poor, characterizing the latter as just wanting the government handouts while the former does the same thing. But I digress.

I support small businesses and their start up. But you always make it sound like the private sector is so independent and does everything on their own - owing only to the hard work of the person who started the business, but read on:

Entrepreneurs may feel pinch with aid cuts

In bad economy, state help for entrepreneurs faces cuts

Sunday, June 06, 2010

By Jon Offredo, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Nationally, the recession produced a surge in entrepreneurial activity last year with new business creation hitting the highest levels in 14 years as some people who lost their jobs decided to go out on their own.

But in Pennsylvania, which came in third-to-last in a Kauffman Index entrepreneurial ranking, small business advocates worry that huge cuts in funding for key programs that helped nurture those new ventures may mean fewer startups will get off the ground.

"That's the irony we're facing," said Christian Conroy, state director of the Small Business Development Center. "[it's been] one of the worst economies in the country, especially in Pennsylvania ... the demand for our services is in more need now than ever before."

During last year's budget crisis, funding for the Small Business Development Center was cut to $3.6 million, down 55 percent from the all-time high of $8 million in 2006.

"If we can't get the state funding restored to $5.5 million for the fiscal year in July, I'm not sure we'll be able to sustain the existing infrastructure we currently have," Mr. Conroy said.

Programs such as those offered by the development center have helped returning Pittsburghers like Matthew Rodgers and Marc Cipullo form business plans and kick-start their companies. Despite such stories, the programs may fall victim to the economic downturn they have helped others to weather.

Determination despite cuts

Supporters of the small business programs haven't given up. With budgetary discussions coming up and the state facing another shortfall, Mr. Conroy and local caucuses have written letters to the state Senate Appropriations Committee and the state Chamber of Commerce.

"I don't envy the folks in Harrisburg. They had some incredibly difficult decisions to make," Mr. Conroy said.

He said supporters also are exploring the possibility of seeking up to $7 million in federal funding, but that would require matching grants from the state.

What's that? State and federal funding for private business start up - and they are asking for it. Say it isn't so.

I though they didn't want any help from the government. They wanted to go it alone. No handouts. Hmmm.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And you're a liberal sheep following Cleo's every word straight to the slaughter.

I have a following? :thumbup: Who knew? But I promise as the "head shepherd" I will not lead you to slaughter but on the path of rightness, truth and the american way.

[pattygreen 5]

"FREE" Health care in Canada, one of the models for Obamacare, is going broke. It consumes 40% of provincial budgets, and the cost is projected to rise to 70% by 2022. This has provinces mulling drastic measures, including new taxes, patient copays, means testing and reduced reimbursements to doctors, hospitals and drug companies, to spread the cost around. Rationing of care isn't on the table because Canada has de facto rationing through policies that require the government to pay only for "medically necessary care", as defined by government bean counters. President Obama says Obamacare would improve care and bend the cost curve down. Canada's experience puts the lie to that claim and unless Obamacare is repealed before it begins paying out benefits, America will add to its nearly $110 TRILLION in unfunded entitlement liabilities, which already are threatening to bankrupt the nation!

[BJean 16]

And you're a liberal sheep following Cleo's every word straight to the slaughter.

If you paid any attention to my posts you would have noticed that I do not always agree with everything that Cleo's posts.

Just as an aside though, her posts are far more factual and thoughtful and accurate than the ones we usually see of yours. And I gotta tell you, it wouldn't take much effort to accomplish that.

Baaaaa.