Health Care

[LeighaMason 19]

OK now I know why I can't be a republican, I don't use enough adjectives. I just state my point in simple terms and let that stand.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The Liberal Hypocrisy Over Health Care Reform

I find the hypocrisy vested in the Liberals demands for the passage of Health Care Reform extraordinarily dumbfounding.

It wasn't that long ago when the very same Liberals were fighting for "Roe vs Wade", a woman's right to an abortion. The liberals, at that time, successfully argued that the government had absolutely NO RIGHT to interfere with that of a woman's right to an abortion. It was her body and her RIGHT to choose or decide, Not that of the governments. Since that time Liberals seem to have lost their direction and have done a complete 180 degree turnaround. Today, these very same left wing idealist now insist that government indeed has the right to dictate and decide for the American people what they CAN and CANNOT do with their own body when it comes to Health Care. They can't have it both ways!

This only goes to prove that liberal views are primarily based in unrealistic, unattainable hopes and dreams rather than in reality and common sense. Unfortunately, our government over the past forty years has promulgated this unrealistic thought process through the creation of entitlement and welfare programs and its progressive ideals that only lead to greater government control and power over the American people.(American reform party)

Here is the fallacy of this argument. With this healthcare bill, the government is NOT telling you what you can and can't do with your body with regard to health. What they are saying to the UNINSURED: You must buy insurance. If you can afford it, you will pay the premiums. If not, there will be subsidies.

And the reason for this is this: If you give the uninsured the choice to buy or not to buy health insurance, only the sick will buy it. And that will not allow the pool of people to be large enough to balance the risk. That is how it works for those of us with healthcare (usually through our employers) now. Those of us who are healthy pay for the healthcare of those who are sick, even though both have healthcare.

You can't just have a pool of sick people. You worry so much about the poor insurance industry - what do you think would happen then?

[tdslf1 0]

WOW,

Too far gone for me folks. Health care means giving the government permission to make us have abortions?

And please don't come back with the government is make you pro lifers have abotions cause then I know the wig is flipped.

[pattygreen 5]

Here is the fallacy of this argument. With this healthcare bill, the government is NOT telling you what you can and can't do with your body with regard to health. Yet. The government is not telling you what you can and can't do with your body , YET. Once the government gets the control, which is their ultimate goal, they will be telling you what you can and can't do with your body. This HC bill was not what Obama initially wanted. He wanted to be the ins, company for everyone in the US. This HC bill is just a stepping stone to his ultimate goal. Universal HC for all under the feds. What they are saying to the UNINSURED: You must buy insurance. If you can afford it, you will pay the premiums. If not, there will be subsidies (that someone else will have to pay for you.:thumbup:)

And the reason for this is this: If you give the uninsured the choice to buy or not to buy health insurance, only the sick will buy it. And that will not allow the pool of people to be large enough to balance the risk. That is how it works for those of us with healthcare (usually through our employers) now. Those of us who are healthy pay for the healthcare of those who are sick, even though both have healthcare.

You can't just have a pool of sick people. You worry so much about the poor insurance industry - what do you think would happen then?

I certainly understand the liberal logic behind it all, it's just that It is not Constitional for the Federal government to force people to purchase something they don't want.

[tdslf1 0]

What exactly can be done about? Repeal and replace? People who read know that can't be done. POTUS is not going to sign a repeal by the the rethugs. Never going to happen. So, the government can say you have to buy insurance, but you don't have to. You can pay the fine at the end of the year from the IRS. Works for me.

Constitutional? People kill with this one. What's allowed under the Constitution is what the government says it is. Their interpretation, not yours. But its amazing the money these att gens are willing to spend to lose, just when their state is having record short falls.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I certainly understand the liberal logic behind it all, it's just that It is not Constitional for the Federal government to force people to purchase something they don't want.

Your arguements are all based on emotion, opinion and predictions, not fact: "It's a government take over"

"Obama wants to control the healthcare of everyone"

"It will eventually control decisions about people's bodies"

"It will increase the deficit"

Your arguments just don't have any basis. It's just a "just you wait" kind of thing, lacking merit.

The following refutes the old "it's unconstitutional":

: Congress has framed the insurance mandate as a tax, which it has well-established powers to create, and the legislative branch's sweeping authority to regulate the economy has been clear since the 1930s.

"The attack on this bill is not merely an attack on the substance of this particular measure," said Jack Balkin, of Yale University. "It's also a challenge to understandings that come with the New Deal."

Sanford Levinson, of the University of Texas Law School, said Americans who choose not to purchase health insurance can pay a fine. Congress, he said, clearly has the authority to levy taxes and fines.

"As a technical matter, it's been set up as a tax," Levinson said of penalties. "The argument about constitutionality is, if not frivolous, close to it."

Mark Tushnet, of Harvard University, said the central premise relied upon by the law's opponents — that Americans who choose not to have insurance aren't involving themselves in the nation's commerce — is flawed.

"The failure to have health insurance doesn't mean the person won't be consuming health services," Tushnet said. Once they receive care, he said, they have become involved in commerce and are subject to the federal government's regulation.

There also is some question as to whether courts could hear challenges now, because the requirement to purchase insurance doesn't become effective until 2014. Courts typically require plaintiffs to show some sort of current injury for which redress is sought.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

You often claim that Obama's agenda is unconstitutional (which it isn't) but if you are concerned about constitutional violations, then you should be interested in this:

A federal judge ruled Wednesday that two lawyers' constitutional rights were violated when the bush administration subjected them to illegal survelliance while they worked for an Islamic charity in Oregon.

All that's left for the court to decide is the amount of damages to be paid to the two lawyers and the foundation's estate.

Pres. Obama criticized his predecessor's use of the state secrets priviledge to shield the government from liability for domestic surveillance without first getting a warrant, which requires that a judge be shown that there is probable cause to suspect wrongdoing.

So, you see, bush actually did violate the constitution. Warrantless wiretapping is unconstitutional.

[BJean 16]

What's your source? Who's the author?

[BJean 16]

What you refuse to understand is that we do not want the government controlling our basic rights to life and liberty or the pursuit of happiness. The government has no right to control a woman's right to life.

Yes, I know you think that a fetus's life is more important than a woman's. But we disagree on that issue and you will never convince me and I will never convince you.

I believe a lot of it has to do with the way we are hardwired in our brains. Compare it to the colors we prefer, the foods we like, the kind of person we want as a spouse, and even belief in a religious faith or belief in no religion at all. And so many more things that make us individuals are things that are influenced by the way our brains are hardwired.

It's very interesting and worth as much in-depty study as one has time for. But so much about our brains and basic physiology (including why some people become obese) is still an unknown territory.

Having the government see to it that people have enough health care in America to provide a basic standard of living is not something that relates to the question of a woman's right to choose. Honestly, it just does not. This is just another stupid diatribe that a person has written to justify their rigid stand on abortion.

[BJean 16]

The Liberal Hypocrisy Over Health Care Reform

I find the hypocrisy vested in the Liberals demands for the passage of Health Care Reform extraordinarily dumbfounding.

It wasn't that long ago when the very same Liberals were fighting for "Roe vs Wade", a woman's right to an abortion. The liberals, at that time, successfully argued that the government had absolutely NO RIGHT to interfere with that of a woman's right to an abortion. It was her body and her RIGHT to choose or decide, Not that of the governments. Since that time Liberals seem to have lost their direction and have done a complete 180 degree turnaround. Today, these very same left wing idealist now insist that government indeed has the right to dictate and decide for the American people what they CAN and CANNOT do with their own body when it comes to Health Care. They can't have it both ways!

This only goes to prove that liberal views are primarily based in unrealistic, unattainable hopes and dreams rather than in reality and common sense. Unfortunately, our government over the past forty years has promulgated this unrealistic thought process through the creation of entitlement and welfare programs and its progressive ideals that only lead to greater government control and power over the American people.(American reform party)

This is the post that my last two posts are related to. I came to the party late tonight. Sorry.

[pattygreen 5]

Your arguments just don't have any basis. It's just a "just you wait" kind of thing, lacking merit.

And your logic is based on what 'Obama' says. But, his past record shows him to be a man who lies and deceives. I don't believe a word he says.

Edited April 2, 2010 by pattygreen

[LeighaMason 19]

Your arguments just don't have any basis. It's just a "just you wait" kind of thing, lacking merit.

And your logic is based on what 'Obama' says. But, his past record shows him to be a man who lies and deceives. I don't believe a word he says.

Patty you call him a liar a lot. Can you please expand on this? Not just what you think are lies, but please list the lie he told and then list the truth and where you got the truth from.

Thanks.

Edited April 2, 2010 by LeighaMason

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Your arguments just don't have any basis. It's just a "just you wait" kind of thing, lacking merit.

And your logic is based on what 'Obama' says. But, his past record shows him to be a man who lies and deceives. I don't believe a word he says.

No, I am basing it on the CBO report and what is in the bill itself, not what the extremists on the right yap about what's in the bill and what it will mean.

[BJean 16]

Your arguments just don't have any basis. It's just a "just you wait" kind of thing, lacking merit.

And your logic is based on what 'Obama' says. But, his past record shows him to be a man who lies and deceives. I don't believe a word he says.

patty it's really not wise to accuse someone else of commiting the same behavior of which you yourself are guilty. Because Cleo's can back up her statements. She cites the source of her information. She doesn't post sound bytes she's heard from some crazy left wing idiot.

We know that she's a passionate progressive who believes in the Democratic ideals. But we also know she's smart enough to tell people her sources and let them read for themselves who said it and where it was published. She isn't just posting her feelings - like I mostly do. She's posting factual information.

It's folly to pick on her.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Thank you, BJean. I'm sure a certain poster is gagging in reading your supportive post about me. He seems to think we operate in collusion. Too bad. Your posts are very thoughtful, reflective and insightful and show a deeper understanding of the issues as opposed to those on the right who fly off the handle and post emotional rants and outright lies.