Health Care

[LeighaMason 19]

I'm being serious. What's the end goal for liberals?

I am not a liberal I am a centrist.

I don't want communism any more than I want a totally unregulated market. Any extremism that relies on people doing what is best for the group is doomed for failure. Human greed is too powerful.

Just because we want to be able to provide health care to our family and others does not mean we are anit-capitalist. I was basically held hostage (job wise) for years because my son has asthma and I could not buy insurance for him so I was forced to work for a large corporation that provided me the opportunity to buy health care. So as a result, I could not start my new business. This is why (I believe) Republicans are so against health care, they want to keep people from having the liberty to open small businesses that compete with the corporations. When this health care debate started I was very confused on why republicans didn't want the government to provide health care. (I think it is reasonable to say that the people who run the large corporations are mostly republicans.) If there was a government provided health care option corporations could drop the health care benefit and it would save large corporations billions of dollars a year, (offering health care plans is a major business expense for them). So why wouldn't they want that to happen? Because now the quality employees that they have held hostage with health care are free to leave their current employment without jeopardizing the health of their family.

Health care reform is about liberty. I don't want government control or corporate control over my health care but if I have to choose one over the other, I am going with the government, at least I can vote them out.

[katklaws 0]

We want a careful system of checks and balances between the public and private sector. Both working together, one without too much power.

There is no such thing as 100% laissez faire capitalism anywhere in the world. I sure as hell don't want anarchy.

ariscus: Is your perfect utopia a full on socialized nation? Communism? Or is it something else? Enlighten me."

[tdslf1 0]

Ariscus,

Please explain why the definition of socialized medicine is a bad thing? You make it sound like a bad thing. Then again I am confused. This bill gives people who don't have it, the chance to get it. People who have insurance and want to keep it, they get to keep it. People who work but don't have it, will be able to get it.

I am lost as to why the teabaggers are angry enough to call people names, break windows act a straight ass over giving people a chance to live. Not all but when you stand there with people who do it, you condone it.

Why is this a slide to craziness? We have no timetable for when progress will stop. When times change, the country has to change. Just as everything about the time we became a nation is different from now. All things might not apply and we have to change. This cannot be a stagnant nation. You think change is bad, I, and many others think its good. Unfortunately for you, we have the majority.

[KartMan 58]

Then here is you saying medicare for all. One post says medicare for all, another says medicare is socialized medicine, so, 1+1=2, you want socialized medicine for everyone.

It doesn’t matter what you “think” I said or if Medicare is Socialized Medicine (it’s not), I don’t want to fight with you about semantics. What does matter (at least to me) is that Medicare works well today for those that have access to it. I do think that it is underfunded and fraud has to be closely watched (it always does), but it actually works fairly well. People pay into it throughout their lives, they get it when they are eligible, they pick the doctor they want, that doctor gets paid on time, and here is the real catch – those that have it wouldn’t let you take it away for anything in the world.

Why not provide that same basic health care to everyone in the same manner? The tradeoff would be that you would pay a higher Medicare Tax (perish the thought), but you wouldn’t have to pay a premium to an insurance company. Now unless you just love your insurance company I don’t see how this is a bad deal. I have said before that there is still a place in this type of system for insurance companies to exist. They can sell insurance for everything over and above whatever is deemed to be “basic care”.

[KartMan 58]

Is this America or not? Why was Bush able to do the things he did behind the scenes and with false data presented to congress to get their approval to let him decide to take us into war, among other things, but we never heard a peep out of them when at least some of the shennanigans were revealed?

Because like him or not, he had the nads to push his agenda through, the Republicans in the House and Senate are the same way. In my view, Republicans have a much smaller tent, but they know how to stay on message and how to keep unity within their party. One of the great things about the Democratic Party is it’s wide diversity – unfortunately that very diversity doesn’t always give them the numbers on the vote when it comes to the floor. Since they don’t always vote in lock-step the way the republicans do, each and every vote is a nail biter, even when they have a super majority.

[KartMan 58]

Why stop at medicine, shouldn't everything be free for everyone shouldn't we all just get to relax and hang out all day while the government takes care of all of us?

Absolutely not. A fair percentage of income (that includes all income) should be reserved for taxes. The revenue from those taxes should be spread across the things that society deems important. Obviously, we all have different opinions of what we think is appropriate. I for one abhor the idea that my tax dollars are being spent on wars that appear to have no end and continue to kill countless civilians and our precious soldiers. You on the other hand do not feel that health care is a “right” and that it should not be paid for via tax dollars. This difference of opinion is meant to be addressed by our electoral process. Last November, the voters picked the guy that said he would steer us away from the wars (I think he has done a less than stellar job in this respect) and provide Health Care reform for all. He got Health Care reform passed. It is not exactly the plan I wanted, but it’s a huge step in the right direction as far as I’m concerned.

[KartMan 58]

hey, I don't know about kartman but I want socialized medicine for all. The fact that some of you are scared to death of it because you're so afraid of it, is very unfortunate.

I want just what I said, Medicare for all. I don’t consider that to be Socialized Medicine, if anyone else does then that is their definition not mine.

[BJean 16]

kartman I believe that the reason that Republicans stay on point is pretty much the same as you. They have a very solid set of values that are across the board the same, no matter what the issue. Free reign to allow capitalism to flourish, no matter what it costs us individuals. Allow the wealthy sector to grow because they will take care of the people who are not wealthy.

Their strategy is to sell that agenda so that the American people believe that it is right and good. That's what they do so well. It isn't complicated, like you inferred. It is much simpler than the Democratic agenda, which is to work hard to make everything fair and better for most Americans. That's a very big set of goals. And some of those things are easily debated especially on the actual process of how to make them happen.

Republicans always work for big money and against the little people. But they disguise it so expertly in words that people like Reagan became famous for - like the one about the government being bad. Another one is that health care reform will make your taxes go up and increase the deficit to such an extent our children will never be able to pay for it.

The list goes on and on. And they have enlisted a bunch of actors to play parts to sell their message - the message that they are trying to keep taxes low and government small. Rush has the starring role with Glenn Beck, Palin and others as backup players.

The Republican politicians lie to our faces. They look at us in the eyes and lie to us. They raise their voices in indignation and act like we'd be crazy to question their motives. And that's why they're so convincing. And that's why so many people are utterly fooled by them.

Otherwise how can you explain that millions of Americans have embraced the Republican party and tea partiers and birthers, etc. when everything that party stands for and those wackos do, is contrary to their personal well-being?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

kartman I believe that the reason that Republicans stay on point is pretty much the same as you. They have a very solid set of values that are across the board the same, no matter what the issue. Free reign to allow capitalism to flourish, no matter what it costs us individuals. Allow the wealthy sector to grow because they will take care of the people who are not wealthy.

Their strategy is to sell that agenda so that the American people believe that it is right and good. That's what they do so well. It isn't complicated, like you inferred. It is much simpler than the Democratic agenda, which is to work hard to make everything fair and better for most Americans. That's a very big set of goals. And some of those things are easily debated especially on the actual process of how to make them happen.

Republicans always work for big money and against the little people. But they disguise it so expertly in words that people like Reagan became famous for - like the one about the government being bad. Another one is that health care reform will make your taxes go up and increase the deficit to such an extent our children will never be able to pay for it.

The list goes on and on. And they have enlisted a bunch of actors to play parts to sell their message - the message that they are trying to keep taxes low and government small. Rush has the starring role with Glenn Beck, Palin and others as backup players.

The Republican politicians lie to our faces. They look at us in the eyes and lie to us. They raise their voices in indignation and act like we'd be crazy to question their motives. And that's why they're so convincing. And that's why so many people are utterly fooled by them.

Otherwise how can you explain that millions of Americans have embraced the Republican party and tea partiers and birthers, etc. when everything that party stands for and those wackos do, is contrary to their personal well-being?

Very well said, BJean. Howard Dean said it best when he said the south has been voting republican for 30 years and what have they done for them? They still have the poorest schools, the lowest wages, the highest poverty, etc.. But hey, the republicans are anti-abortion, anti-gay - but try paying your mortgage with that.

The republicans have never done one thing for the middle class. But the democrats are terrible at getting their message out. They need to do a better job. I sure do my part. :Banane20:

[BJean 16]

And I'm very proud of you Cleo's... you do an excellent job!!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And I'm very proud of you Cleo's... you do an excellent job!!

Thank you.

I was at a women's democratic function tonight and in the program booklet was a great quote:

"A test of progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much,

It is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."

-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

The Roosevelts, like the Kennedys had much but spent a lifetime of public service to help those who have too little.

[ariscus99 1]

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Like I posted before, the republicans who voted no wanted to deny the american people a chance to have the healthcare THEY have, that WE pay for.

And remember: If you like your healthcare, you keep it. Why would Pres. Obama want to change his or his family's?

And what are they being exempt from anyway? They already have healthcare.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[LeighaMason 19]

This is who I want to get my politcial information from, some guy driving a 10 year old dented up van.

[pattygreen 5]

The tea baggers are getting restless. They are showing their true colors. Phone calls to congress, death threats, pictures in the paper and racial slurs. It's amazing why they think we should have ANY respect for their movement. Only closet teabaggers will make it in the history books, if they manage to get elected. Democrates will not allow a crazy person to take to the Congress, they just won't. We will lose some seats but coo co birds definitely won't replace Democrats. I would be ashamed to be associated with such a group. I am ashamed for them. The rethuglicans should be ashamed of what they have incited and have no intention of toning it down. Never have you seem Democrats lose their minds like the past couple days with teabaggers in the news. This is sad when the retards threaten our leaders and feel they can have the freedom to do it without consequence. They and all who associate with it should be ashamed.

Take a look at the tens of thousands of liberals who protested in Minnesota in 2008. They spit upon people, threw cement bags off of highway bridges onto republicans going to the convention. They violently attacked people, broke windows, and even attacked a bus full of cub scouts going to the convention. They threw clorox at the conservatives, and yelled out curse slurs at them. It's just that the liberal main stream media didn't make a big deal about it like they do when conservatives act the same way. Believe me, your group is NO different. So, you are associated with people just like that!