Health Care

[katklaws 0]

Where do you get all of these garbage statistics from?

all these 'gimmicks' quickly generates additional deficits of $562 billion in the first 10 years.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Where do you get all of these garbage statistics from?

Written by a guy from the American Action Forum, a right wing conservative group. Another group that stands with corporate america and wall street and against middle america and main street.

[pattygreen 5]

Reform proponents have cited the CBO analysis as evidence that the reforms will bring federal budget deficits down substantially in the decade beginning in 2020, for example. But CBO itself is careful to qualify its forecast.

"It is unclear whether such a reduction in the growth rate of [Medicare] spending could be achieved, and if so, whether it would be accomplished through greater efficiencies in the delivery of health care or through reductions in access to care or the quality of care," the agency says in its report.

[pattygreen 5]

Another big uncertainty is how many employers will choose to pay a penalty rather than offer insurance as an employee benefit. The more firms do that, the more people will be looking to the government to subsidize care purchased on a new insurance exchange.

[pattygreen 5]

AN EDITORIAL: Health care for (almost) all, but at what cost?

Tuesday, March 23, 2010

You don’t spend $940 billion without someone paying the bill. The cost of the national health insurance overhaul will be staggering. And in the end, American taxpayers will pay. It’s just a question of how much.

President Obama’s landmark health insurance legislation will extend coverage to 32 million Americans who are uninsured, extend coverage to many and will establish health care exchanges for those who don’t have access to company-sponsored health insurance. Can’t afford health insurance? No worries, the government will pay for it if your income is low enough. Prefer to opt out of health care and pay your medical coverage out of pocket? Sorry, you’ll have to pay the government anyway, in the form of potentially hefty fines.

The new plan will require health insurance companies to cover everyone, regardless of pre-existing conditions. The companies would be prohibited from cancelling coverage and from capping coverage for those who require expensive care. Those are noble ideas and a humane approach to the health of our nation. But it is folly to think that health insurance companies will not react and adjust their business models. They will look for ways to recoup their new costs.

The President has always said that if you like the health care plan offered by your company, you can keep it. But that assumes employer-offered health insurance coverage will be the same in the future as it is today. Not only are businesses required to offer health care insurance, but the amount of health care insurance as well. In order to save costs, businesses are likely to offer the government-mandated minimum, making it less likely that people will still like the plan they have.

The $940 billion price tag for the new insurance plan already is our money, of course, the result of the taxes we all pay. Just how much more it will cost is anyone’s guess. After all of the euphoria on the Democratic side and the weeping and gnashing of teeth on the Republican side, the real business of implementing universal health care will come in the ensuing months and years. How much will it cost? The truth is, nobody knows. And the government has been notoriously inefficient in running things or predicting the unintended consequences of its actions.

Obama, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid have boasted that there are savings built into the new plan that will offset some of the billions in costs. But how many times have you known the federal government to save a buck?

Those who supported the massive health care legislation insist that it is not government-run health care. Technically correct but it definitely is government-controlled health care. Almost every aspect of providing health insurance will be tightly regulated by the myriad of boards and commissions that will be appointed in the coming months.

Medical care providers, pharmaceutical companies, health insurance carriers and other health-related companies will have to adjust to the new normal. All will seek to minimize the impact of the health care bill on their bottom lines. They will change the way they do business and either cut services or pass on any costs they can.

Is the health care plan good for St. Louis? Again, nobody really knows. More people will be covered, certainly. But will the new rules benefit the many hospitals that call St. Louis home? What about pharmaceutical companies here? It may turn out that the new rules will be a boon to St. Louis. Or not. Not even they know whether the they insurance plan is good or bad for business.

Medical and health-oriented companies employ thousands of people in St. Louis. They are a significant part of the St. Louis economy, and will play an ever-increasing role in the area’s effort to establish a major bio-tech presence here.

It’s clear that every St. Louis company will be affected as they review the coverage they provide for employees. They will be subject to any number of new proposals from health insurance companies which likely will result in higher premiums for business and their employees.

Local small businesses also will be affected as they are mandated to provide a certain level of coverage, whether they can afford it or not. It could be the difference between expanding their business, buying new equipment or hiring a new employee. The new health insurance plan could have a negative effect on job growth.

All in all, the health insurance program approved yesterday is but the first chapter in a book that has yet to be fully written. Those expecting a happy ending are putting too much faith in government doing the right thing and spending our money wisely. The best we can do is hope the government isn’t writing a disaster epic.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

This is why we need a public option to keep the costs down and offer REAL competition to the greedy private insurance companies.

And if in the end, most people and employers would choose the less expensive government program and the greedy, private health insurance industry would go out of business then I would just have one thing to say:

Yeah!

[ariscus99 1]

Its funny, your 25, Im assuming no family,wife, kids. If thats the case youll see when your in the workfield for a while and have to support a family. It becomes alot more important. When I was 25 I didnt care what went on in the world, especially healthcare. I was young and healthy and invincible! Now I have a family, am 38 and healthcare is very important to me. Just let me say, Im self employed, my wife has great insurance through her job. We pay about 170.00 a month for top of the line insurance. The reason Im telling you this is because even though Im insured this is still a big issue for me. Id be curious to see what your opinion is in 10 years. The young and old seem to me to be the ones most against healthcare reform. Being 25, your going to have a hard time finding a good job(in this economy)which pays healthcare and descent money. A college education doesn’t guarantee that anymore. Today the average child lives with parents until age 28, 10 years ago it was around 24(I believe). I hope you have no problems finding a good job but like I said I would be curious about your opinion in 5-10 years when you have a little more experience in the work field and hopefully a healthy family.

It's funny how everyone profiles you no matter what they actually know or don't know. For instance; yes I'm 25, however I do have a wife and family, she just completed her master’s degree and is a teacher, working a state paid job, with great benefits, I'm a firefighter, I work for a dept that is social security exempt, which I have done since I was 18. During that time I was able to pay for myself, and my wife to go to college, graduate school for her, I'll probably be attending grad school in the next year and a half or so, paid cash for a house, have nice cars, nice things, live the "American dream", still have a nice savings and no credit card debt. But because I'm 25 I get lumped in with every other 25 years old, some of whom have no common sense, no work ethic, little to no morals, and rely heavily on the government for everything. You see them marching for things like tuition increases. Guess what, when the cost of everything else is going up, so will tuition, get a job and stop crying about it. I've never understood the mentality of hand outs. I don't want one, and it would have to be dire circumstances for me to except one, and I would want to pay it back.

People like cleo's mom say I have no compassion, I'm young and mean, and don't want to help my fellow American out. She says I wouldn't help my neighbor if they were down and out. What she and most liberals don't get, for one reason or another isn't that conservatives don't want to help people; it's that most of us don't want to be forced to help people. Let us do it of our own free will, don't tax me to help someone all the while telling me how evil I am for not wanting to help. I'd love to help, I regularly make large donations to different charities, one of my favorites is the wishing tree's at Christmas time, my wife and I ever since we started dating have participated in that, it was one of our first Christmas dates, we picked 5 children and 5 seniors to buy presents for. Because it was something we chose to do on our own. Had barry obama sent me a list of 1 child and 1 senior I had to buy gifts for, I probably wouldn't have, or would have done the bare minimum. I help because I want to, not because I'm told to.

Health care is the same idea, why shouldn't we deregulate some, open healthcare across state borders, do massive tort reform, I read a report on tort reform that was put out there, the only number included in that was money paid out for lawsuits each year. So when you here the dems cry out, it would only be 2%, that’s nothing, well yeah, 2% is nothing, that only a little less than the profit the ins. companies make. But when you factor in doctors mal-practice premiums, the cost of extra test doctors run for fear of being sued etc, etc, that 2% I believe, though the data isn't out there to support me yet, would climb significantly, which if you cut that out, premiums would fall significantly, opening across state borders, creates much higher supply, which if we all remember 4th grade economics, greater supply, less demand, equals lower prices.

Now I work in an ER part time as well, and see the costs of things there, and most are just outrageous, my father-in-law is the CFO of a major hospital in CA and swears the prices are justified because of the cost of doing business(by the way before any greed comments come out, the hospitals he works for are not for profit, which means they have no investors, so they aren’t driving up prices to help out the fat cat wall street investors who are backing the hospital), especially in CA, for example the net cost to build or add on to a hospital, because of all the red tape, taxes, and things you must do in CA, comes in at cool $1 million per bed, well someone has to pay for that so it gets transferred into healthcare cost which push up the cost of premiums, decrease some of these overhead costs to the hospitals, and you’ll decrease costs of the medical care, which will decrease costs of premiums. And all the while you’re not forcing anyone to pay to do anything.

How about fining people who don’t have medical coverage, what a crock that is. I read the argument on here, “everyone needs it”, well no, not true, I know lots of people who are into the 50’s and 60’s who lead active healthy lifestyles who’ve never needed it, rarely go to the dr for more than a checkup which they can pay out of pocket, all you have to do is save and be financially responsible. So why should that person have to have coverage or risk being fined.

And what about the threat of doctors leaving the medical field? Now I have to say I don’t think it’s a very real threat, but if it was, and if like the NE J of M poll said, happens, and over 40% of doctors leave, that would destroy our medical field. I work with several doctors on a regular basis as well as see my personal doctors regularly and I’m still yet to hear one who thinks this healthcare reform is a good idea. Health care reform in general? Yes, it needs to happen, this particular recipe of reform? No, it’s garbage, says most of them.

The tax increases. Only on the wealthiest Americans, the dems say. However the level that makes an American, the wealthiest of them keeps inching down. I’m lucky enough to be in a field that pays phenomenally, my wife is a teacher, so as everyone knows it doesn’t pay that great, however, she does have her master’s degree and a special education credential, she teaches mild to moderate special education, being specialized in that field, earns her a higher salary, so this year, we’re in risk of becoming part of that group of the wealthiest Americans. So now, not only are we going to be paying much higher taxes in general, we’ll also being paying even more taxes to support obamacare. We aren’t rich; we’ve both worked very hard, have got into demanding fields, and would like to reap the benefits of this. However, we’re being penalized for it. We’re just two working class folks, a firemen and a teacher, but here we are paying more in taxes that 20% or Americans will ever pay in taxes. So what does this make us want to do? Well it makes her not want to teach anymore, because if she stops teaching we’ll fall back under the 200k mark and won’t have to pay the extra taxes. She’s a great teacher, loves the children she works with, was blessed with the patience to be able to work with children with special needs, but is getting penalized for it. So she’ll probably work this year, then quit, so we don’t have to pay 50% of our income to taxes. She’ll be a stay at home mom, someone else will have to go through 6 years of college to take her position, and hopefully that person doesn’t have a spouse with a good job or they’ll be in the same position.

[ariscus99 1]

This is why we need a public option to keep the costs down and offer REAL competition to the greedy private insurance companies.

And if in the end, most people and employers would choose the less expensive government program and the greedy, private health insurance industry would go out of business then I would just have one thing to say:

Yeah!

And then those 500,000 people can get on government assistance, and we'll be that much closer to the dream right?:confused:

[LeighaMason 19]

It's funny how everyone profiles you no matter what they actually know or don't know. For instance; yes I'm 25, however I do have a wife and family, she just completed her master’s degree and is a teacher, working a state paid job, with great benefits, I'm a firefighter, I work for a dept that is social security exempt, which I have done since I was 18. During that time I was able to pay for myself, and my wife to go to college, graduate school for her, I'll probably be attending grad school in the next year and a half or so, paid cash for a house, have nice cars, nice things, live the "American dream", still have a nice savings and no credit card debt.

Mathematically impossible.

[ariscus99 1]

Mathematically impossible.

Oh really? How so? Just because you couldn't accomplish something doesn't mean that no one can.

Edited March 23, 2010 by ariscus99

[LeighaMason 19]

Avg. firefighters salary $30k -$45K

$45,000 before taxes, say $36k after

$252K paid for house, 2 cars, living expenses for 7 years, a house, 2 undergrads and a masters?

[LeighaMason 19]

My name is Leigha Bobbitt-Haeger, I live in Tyler, Tx I own a used car dealership, 7 rent houses, how about you?

[ariscus99 1]

Avg. firefighters salary $30k -$45K

$45,000 before taxes, say $36k after

$252K paid for house, 2 cars, living expenses for 7 years, a house, 2 undergrads and a masters?

Look outside of TX maybe. Most CA firefighters start around 75 to 80K a year with minimal OT. Definitely not hard to see 100k+ in the first year or two. Engineers, w/ OT closer to 150k a year, captains, close to 200k. Didn't pay anywhere near 252k for my house. 2 cars? Seriously? Two blacked out OT months paid cash for a Nissan Titan, and a Nissan Murano. Tuition at any CSU was about 2000 a semester. Trying a little thing called living within your means, priceless.

[ariscus99 1]

My name is Leigha Bobbitt-Haeger, I live in Tyler, Tx I own a used car dealership, 7 rent houses, how about you?

Ask me in 15 years when I'm your age.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

People like cleo's mom say I have no compassion, I'm young and mean, and don't want to help my fellow American out. She says I wouldn't help my neighbor if they were down and out. What she and most liberals don't get, for one reason or another isn't that conservatives don't want to help people; it's that most of us don't want to be forced to help people. Let us do it of our own free will, don't tax me to help someone all the while telling me how evil I am for not wanting to help. I'd love to help, I regularly make large donations to different charities, one of my favorites is the wishing tree's at Christmas time, my wife and I ever since we started dating have participated in that, it was one of our first Christmas dates, we picked 5 children and 5 seniors to buy presents for. Because it was something we chose to do on our own. Had barry obama sent me a list of 1 child and 1 senior I had to buy gifts for, I probably wouldn't have, or would have done the bare minimum. I help because I want to, not because I'm told to.

Where did I say those things? Don't drag my name into this to try to make your case. I make contributions to many charities, too, and they are great to SUPPLEMENT the government programs that help the least among us. But there is no way, NO WAY, that private charities can even begin to address the HUGE needs of the poor in this country. The need for housing, food, healthcare is enormous and charities do help but they don't have the resources to do it all. That is why we need the government programs. That is who we are as a country. When others look to us I want them to see a compassionate country who helps the least among us, whether they are disabled, poor, homeless or in need of healthcare.