Health Care

[ariscus99 1]

Once again money spent on advertising, lobbying, entertainment, executive salaries, etc. are all deducted before the 3%. You can make any business look like it has a 3% profit margin if you spend enough on deductions.

Enlighten me please, what is the real LeighaMason version of the profits that insurance companies make? What is the real number?

As for CM, wellpoints large Q4 profits were explained in the article I posted, and also explained what they would have been without selling the PBM division. And United made a stifling 4.33% how dare these money hungry jerks do that. In reality cigna is the only one of those mentioned by you who made over 5%.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I can never think of Rumsfeld's name. And I can't forget Carl Rove's no matter how hard I try. Such a motley crew.

Cleo's do you ever go to movies? You should see "Green Zone" with Matt Damon. It is touted as being a typical Matt Damon spy thriller but it isn't. And it is very well done. And whether it is precisely true is pretty unimportant. It does paint a very plausible picture of what we think went on behind the scenes. And it will make you want to clamp the handcuffs on the bad guys.

Yes, I go to the movies or rent them on Netflix all the time. I will definitely add "Green Zone". I saw it advertised and it looked good.

[pattygreen 5]

The republicans are hoping to take control of the U.S. House in November and repeal this healthcare bill.

I want to see them campaign on repealing the following:

-not losing your insurance if you lose your job

-not being denied insurance because of pre-existing condition

-not being dropped by insurance company when you get sick

-taking insurance away from those previously uninsured

-putting the donut hole back into the medicare prescription drug plan

I want them to stand up and tell the American people that this is what they support.

I welcome them running on this platform and look forward to it. Bring it on!!!

And don't forget....- kids staying on their parents plan till they are 26!

You just don't get it. All these things ARE wonderful. Reps want them also. WE JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!! If you think it's wonderful, it's because it is wonderful get something you desire, but when the bill comes in, how are you going to pay for it? Leave it to a liberal to spend on things he just can't afford. And if you think it will reduce the deficit, you are dillusional. You can't insure 30 million more people and have it not cost anything.

[pattygreen 5]

Chris of NJ, why don't you go look up socialism? What the congress has done is not socialism. But keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel smart.

socializing a nation doesn't happen over night. This is just one more giant step closer to it. Everytime the government enforces mandates on the people, it takes away some of your freedoms. This is going to cost us a whole lot. Hope you are prepared for the financial burden. It will raise the cost of living tremendously.

[pattygreen 5]

I support 100% Health Care Reform, this is only the beginning it will continue to be a fight. The sellouts GOP/Insurance companies will continue to whine as they did when Social Security and Medicare first came into being. They fought long and hard to defeat these two ideas also. I have a question where would your Parents and Grandparents have been without these to systems?[/QUOTE]

As far as SS is concerned, right where they were BEFORE they enacted them. Most likely better off because they would have saved for their retirement instead of planning on the governments PROMISE of supporting them when they retire. Now, all they have is a lousy few hundred bucks a month to get by on meagerly. And the program wouldn't be bankrupt right now if it had never begun.

[KartMan 58]

And don't forget....- kids staying on their parents plan till they are 26!

You just don't get it. All these things ARE wonderful. Reps want them also. WE JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!! If you think it's wonderful, it's because it is wonderful get something you desire, but when the bill comes in, how are you going to pay for it? Leave it to a liberal to spend on things he just can't afford. And if you think it will reduce the deficit, you are dillusional. You can't insure 30 million more people and have it not cost anything.

Oh Patty, it’s such a tired argument “we can’t afford it”. Of course we can afford it, not only can we afford it, we can’t afford not to do it. The non-partisan CBO has already said it saves over $100B in the first 10 years and over a Trillion dollars in the next ten years. I would argue that net net we would have saved a ton more if we just gotten rid of Insurance Companies altogether and provided Medicare to all. See my post #288 here http://www.lapbandtalk.com/f80/bet-youre-sorry-you-voted-obama-now-88530/index20.html for a simple explanation of that.

Ok, so you don’t believe the CBO? Then it really comes to a matter of priorities. I believe a healthy America is a strong America and it makes us a better country than either of the two wars we are in. To date, we have spent over $700B in Iraq, a war in which we had no business starting and have no reason to continue. That war saved us zero lives and has only made us weaker on the world scene (it is single handedly the reason Iran has become so powerful). As for Afghanistan, we have spent almost $300B there. I can buy the argument that we initially had some cause to go in there and clear out Al-Qaeda but we have no business there now and it is not our place to continue the fight with the Taliban. Afghanistan is fighting a Civil War and we are doomed to failure there as long we stay.

Edited March 22, 2010 by KartMan

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And don't forget....- kids staying on their parents plan till they are 26!

You just don't get it. All these things ARE wonderful. Reps want them also. WE JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!! If you think it's wonderful, it's because it is wonderful get something you desire, but when the bill comes in, how are you going to pay for it? Leave it to a liberal to spend on things he just can't afford. And if you think it will reduce the deficit, you are dillusional. You can't insure 30 million more people and have it not cost anything.

"Leave it to a liberal to spend things he just can't afford"? You're kidding me with that statement, right? You must have been laughing when you wrote it because I sure was when I read it.

In 2001 the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS passed the first tax cut for the rich which added $1.3 Trillion (that's trillion with a T) to the deficit. In other words, not only NOT paid for but adding to the deficit.

Then in 2003 the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS passed the second tax cut for the rich adding $349 Billion to the deficit. Again, not paid for and adding to the deficit.

Then the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS passed Medicare part D that added $394 to the deficit. Again, not paid for and added to the deficit.

And I haven't even gotten to the cost of the Iraq war - also not paid for and adding to the deficit.

Leave it to the conservative republicans to think we liberals have short memories.

This healthcare bill DOES NOT ADD TO THE DEFICIT. It is paid for by reforming the overpayments (150% above cost) that many doctors were getting from medicare and a tax on cadillac healthcare plans.

So, it looks like when you put the big boys in charge you get a paid-for bill that is a win-win for the American people.

This is what change looks like!!

[pattygreen 5]

Oh Patty, it’s such a tired argument “we can’t afford it”. Of course we can afford it, not only can we afford it, we can’t afford not to do it. The non-partisan CBO has already said it saves over $100B in the first 10 years and over a Trillion dollars in the next ten years. I would argue that net net we would have saved a ton more if we just gotten rid of Insurance Companies altogether and provided Medicare to all. See my post #288 here http://www.lapbandtalk.com/f80/bet-youre-sorry-you-voted-obama-now-88530/index20.html for a simple explanation of that.

Ok, so you don’t believe the CBO? Then it really comes to a matter of priorities. I believe a healthy America is a strong America and it makes us a better country than either of the two wars we are in. To date, we have spent over $700B in Iraq, a war in which we had no business starting and have no reason to continue. That war saved us zero lives and has only made us weaker on the world scene (it is single handedly the reason Iran has become so powerful). As for Afghanistan, we have spent almost $300B there. I can buy the argument that we initially had some cause to go in there and clear out Al-Qaeda but we have no business there now and it is not our place to continue the fight with the Taliban. Afghanistan is fighting a Civil War and we are doomed to failure there as long we stay.

We will all pay into this bill for the first 4 years BEFORE we get to use it. THEN we will use it. AFTER 10 years from now, this is when you will see the downhill spiral of its effects. The CBO doesn't tell you what will happen after 10 years. How can you pay for something for 10 years and get the services out of it for 6 of those years and then the next 10 years pay the same amount and get 10 additional years of service out of it? Not possible without rationing care or raising fees to pay for it. (BTW, This is where the conservatives got their death panels from last year. They understood that over time, their would be rationing of medical care)

Let me repeat for those who don't get it:

You pay into the government for this Obamacare for 4 years without getting any medical care. After 4 years of paying into it, they begin providing medical care to the people while collecting the same amount of funds. This is how the CBO says it will 'save' us money over ten years time. But, what about after that when you are recieving medical care for ten years and not saving up for 4 years prior? It doesn't take a math expert to figure out that you wont be taking in as much as you need anymore and will have to get some more money from somewhere to continue providing the same care or else ration the care, increase the prices of care or raise the premium fees or taxes.

[pattygreen 5]

"Leave it to a liberal to spend things he just can't afford"? You're kidding me with that statement, right? You must have been laughing when you wrote it because I sure was when I read it.

In 2001 the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS passed the first tax cut for the rich which added $1.3 Trillion (that's trillion with a T) to the deficit. In other words, not only NOT paid for but adding to the deficit.

Then in 2003 the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS passed the second tax cut for the rich adding $349 Billion to the deficit. Again, not paid for and adding to the deficit.

Then the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS passed Medicare part D that added $394 to the deficit. Again, not paid for and added to the deficit.

And I haven't even gotten to the cost of the Iraq war - also not paid for and adding to the deficit.

Leave it to the conservative republicans to think we liberals have short memories.

This healthcare bill DOES NOT ADD TO THE DEFICIT. It is paid for by reforming the overpayments (150% above cost) that many doctors were getting from medicare and a tax on cadillac healthcare plans.

So, it looks like when you put the big boys in charge you get a paid-for bill that is a win-win for the American people.

This is what change looks like!!

I don't care what people did in 2001 or 2003. I know it's important to you to bring up how the other side has sinned equally, but I'm looking at what is happening NOW, not what happened in the past. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

You are wrong about the cost of this bill.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I don't care what people did in 2001 or 2003. I know it's important to you to bring up how the other side has sinned equally, but I'm looking at what is happening NOW, not what happened in the past. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

You are wrong about the cost of this bill.

You made a sweeping generalizations about liberals and I proved that this not only wasn't true of liberals but was true of conservatives.

Of course you don't care what the republicans did under bush. The current and formerly elected republicans are trying to forget too as they try to rewrite history. It's such a shameful legacy, they should try to forget it. Unfortuately for them, it's all been well recorded.

The republicans have used the CBO to score all their bills but they reject the CBO analysis when it doesn't agree with their agenda, and so do you.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The CBO doesn't tell you what will happen after 10 years.

Read #4 for your answer to this.

10 THINGS EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT HEALTH CARE REFORM

1. Once reform is fully implemented, over 95% of Americans will have health insurance coverage, including 32 million who are currently uninsured.2

2. Health insurance companies will no longer be allowed to deny people coverage because of preexisting conditions—or to drop coverage when people become sick.3

3. Just like members of Congress, individuals and small businesses who can't afford to purchase insurance on their own will be able to pool together and choose from a variety of competing plans with lower premiums.4

4. Reform will cut the federal budget deficit by $138 billion over the next ten years, and a whopping $1.2 trillion in the following ten years.5

5. Health care will be more affordable for families and small businesses thanks to new tax credits, subsidies, and other assistance—paid for largely by taxing insurance companies, drug companies, and the very wealthiest Americans.6

6. Seniors on Medicare will pay less for their prescription drugs because the legislation closes the "donut hole" gap in existing coverage.7

7. By reducing health care costs for employers, reform will create or save more than 2.5 million jobs over the next decade.8

8. Medicaid will be expanded to offer health insurance coverage to an additional 16 million low-income people.9

9. Instead of losing coverage after they leave home or graduate from college, young adults will be able to remain on their families' insurance plans until age 26.10

10. Community health centers would receive an additional $11 billion, doubling the number of patients who can be treated regardless of their insurance or ability to pay.11

[pattygreen 5]

Medicare cost $3 billion in 1966. In what it called a conservative estimate, the House Ways and Means Committee that year projected Medicare would cost $12 billion after inflation by 1990. The actual cost in 1990: $107 billion. Do you REALLY think this will save us money? lol

[pattygreen 5]

The bill drops the ball in controlling costs.The American people want health care that's more affordable. This bill doesn't do that.

[pattygreen 5]

It was said that it would be required for every person to have health insurance, otherwise you're going to be fined. That's kind of taking away the whole purpose of us being an independent country.

[pattygreen 5]

For a doctor with a thriving private practice, the sweeping changes means higher overhead costs and an influx of new patients he may not be able to care for.

For small business owners, the health insurance overhaul means higher premiums for people on their payroll.

For insurance providers, the bill fails to address cost containment, which they say will lead to billions in health care taxes.