Health Care

[pattygreen 5]

I assume you mean the article written by Walter Williams (economics Professor at George Mason University), in his own words, He is also occasional substitute host for the "Rush Limbaugh" show.

Who cares? What he said is VERY true. I couldn't have said it better myslf. I am in full agreement with his article and every word he wrote.

BTW, I don't listen to R.Limbaugh, ever.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The republican party has never done anything for the middle class in this country let alone the least among us.

On healthcare: they stand with the greedy health insurance companies, not with the people.

On financial reform: they stand with wall street and the big banks and against consumers.

On jobs bills: they stand with corporate american and against working and unemployed people.

On the Lilly Ledbetter Act (women's right to sue for being paid less than men) they stood with discriminating companies and against women.

They are against feminists, gays, and women's right to choose.

And as far as being moral - well that has been shot down by their many, many immoral and hypocritical behaviors and affairs.

So, if you are an middle class person and you vote for republicans you are voting against you own self interests.

Try paying your bills with anti-gay legislation or denying women the right to choose.

This major economic collapse that almost became a depression, except for Pres. Obama's intervention, was the result of de-regulation of the financial industry starting with Reagan. After the great depression the regulations that were put in place worked very well for 50 years. Then Reagan came along, and with him de-regulation and we had 3 financial crises in the last 30 years because of it, this last one almost destroying our country. That's what republicans do for you.

Palin asked "how's the hopey, change-y thing working for you?"

I ask "How's the republican de-regulation working for your investments, stocks, retirement account, 401(k), your wages, buying power, etc..? For me, well, it's not working at all.

[pattygreen 5]

Here is a video of teabaggers showing their true colors. It is beyond disgusting. About 50 seconds into it you will see them shouting at a man with Parkinson's disease who supports and needs healthcare. They actually throw money at him:

Dispatch Video | The Columbus Dispatch

"They" was one man.

I could dig up just as many videos and pictures of liberals doing similar crap at rallys when Bush was President. If I did, you would just tell me that a small minority of people in your party don't speak for the majority of you. That's all I can say when you relentlessly bring about videos of conservatives protesting. There are a very small minority of jerks in every party. Why don't you try to show us here on LBT that you're not a jerk like that? Why don't you try to be more mature in your hatred for those who don't take your side? Why do you feel the incessive need to belittle those who don't agree with you? So what? Some guy was being a jerk at a protest. I bet if you looked at other videos from that day you could find a liberal at that same protest being a jerk too.

[pattygreen 5]

Why don't you go back to the article I posted and tell me what it is in there that you don't agree with? Do you feel that HC is your 'right'? Why?

[BJean 16]

I like the guy who said it's too bad we can't sit down and discuss the pros and cons. As the last lady spoke, it was obvious that the Republicans have succeeded with some people, in planting fear and distrust.

There have always been conflicts with political issues in this country but the Republicans and right wing have made it impossible to have an intelligent dialogue that might result in people learning something and making an informed decision. They are operating, as usual, on misinformation, lies and fear mongering.

When you're debating if you can get away with this behavior, you don't need the truth on your side. You don't need to have any serious merits in your arguments. All you need is to spout buzz words and fear and it's enough to convince a lot of Americans.

I really wish we were better people than this.

[BJean 16]

The republican party has never done anything for the middle class in this country let alone the least among us.

On healthcare: they stand with the greedy health insurance companies, not with the people.

On financial reform: they stand with wall street and the big banks and against consumers.

On jobs bills: they stand with corporate american and against working and unemployed people.

On the Lilly Ledbetter Act (women's right to sue for being paid less than men) they stood with discriminating companies and against women.

They are against feminists, gays, and women's right to choose.

And as far as being moral - well that has been shot down by their many, many immoral and hypocritical behaviors and affairs.

So, if you are an middle class person and you vote for republicans you are voting against you own self interests.

Try paying your bills with anti-gay legislation or denying women the right to choose.

This major economic collapse that almost became a depression, except for Pres. Obama's intervention, was the result of de-regulation of the financial industry starting with Reagan. After the great depression the regulations that were put in place worked very well for 50 years. Then Reagan came along, and with him de-regulation and we had 3 financial crises in the last 30 years because of it, this last one almost destroying our country. That's what republicans do for you.

Palin asked "how's the hopey, change-y thing working for you?"

I ask "How's the republican de-regulation working for your investments, stocks, retirement account, 401(k), your wages, buying power, etc..? For me, well, it's not working at all.

GREAT post Cleo's!!

[LeighaMason 19]

"To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept."

I have a "right" to have a fire truck come to my house if its on fire, I have a "right" to have police protection, I have a "right" for my children to have an education, I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This includes not watching my neighbors die in the street from hunger, from lack of health care, or from exposure to the elements. Taxes pay for all of these things. Some basic human rights have a monetary cost and to pretend this is the only one is irresponsible.

[BJean 16]

patty: "I could dig up just as many videos and pictures of liberals doing similar crap at rallys when Bush was President. If I did, you would just tell me that a small minority of people in your party don't speak for the majority of you. That's all I can say when you relentlessly bring about videos of conservatives protesting. There are a very small minority of jerks in every party. Why don't you try to show us here on LBT that you're not a jerk like that? Why don't you try to be more mature in your hatred for those who don't take your side? Why do you feel the incessive need to belittle those who don't agree with you? So what? Some guy was being a jerk at a protest. I bet if you looked at other videos from that day you could find a liberal at that same protest being a jerk too."

patty, nothing about what you've said, above in quotes, excuses those people's behavior. If you can find someone behaving as badly on the Democratic side, please, I challenge you, bring it here and we can discuss it.

__________________

[BJean 16]

"To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept."

I have a "right" to have a fire truck come to my house if its on fire, I have a "right" to have police protection, I have a "right" for my children to have an education, I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This includes not watching my neighbors die in the street from hunger, from lack of health care, or from exposure to the elements. Taxes pay for all of these things. Some basic human rights have a monetary cost and to pretend this is the only one is irresponsible.

One of the most heartbreaking things about the Republicans saying that no one has a right to health care, is to know that they are the ones who chose to spend billions and billions of dollars to kill people in the streets of Iraq. They totally support war. The say that the collateral damage is just a necessary component of war. They say they support our troops, but how is insuring that thousands die in an unjust war, supporting them?

They support barbarism. But they do not support changing a health care system that is not working for anyone but the wealthy in America and the health care providers and insurance companies who are killing us with their greed.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

"They" was one man.

I could dig up just as many videos and pictures of liberals doing similar crap at rallys when Bush was President. If I did, you would just tell me that a small minority of people in your party don't speak for the majority of you. That's all I can say when you relentlessly bring about videos of conservatives protesting. There are a very small minority of jerks in every party. Why don't you try to show us here on LBT that you're not a jerk like that? Why don't you try to be more mature in your hatred for those who don't take your side? Why do you feel the incessive need to belittle those who don't agree with you? So what? Some guy was being a jerk at a protest. I bet if you looked at other videos from that day you could find a liberal at that same protest being a jerk too.

ONLY one man was throwing money, the rest of the crowd was yelling at the man and calling him a communist.

This video was played on mainstream media today by those who make a lot of money to produce news. I guess they are just overpaid jerks. I am sure that fox news never shows videos to support their "fair and balanced" news and right wing viewpoints.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Why don't you go back to the article I posted and tell me what it is in there that you don't agree with? Do you feel that HC is your 'right'? Why?

I did. My post #748. What part of it didn't you understand?

Yes, healthcare, like free and public education, is a right for all people regardless of their ability to pay.

Real, breathing, living people who have families and loved ones die every year because they don't have insurance. An independent Harvard study puts that number at about 44,000 per year.

So here's my new bumper sticker: You can't be both pro-life and against healthcare reform.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[pattygreen 5]

"To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept."

I have a "right" to have a fire truck come to my house if its on fire, I have a "right" to have police protection, I have a "right" for my children to have an education,

You have a right to these things because you pay for them. That's why you have the right to them!

I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's right. You do.

This includes not watching my neighbors die in the street from hunger, from lack of health care, or from exposure to the elements. Taxes pay for all of these things. Some basic human rights have a monetary cost and to pretend this is the only one is irresponsible.

Have you ever really seen a neighbor die in the street from being hungry in America? I mean, really? If your neighbor was hungry, and you knew it, you would give him some food. In this country we take care of the hungry and homeless with food and shelters. Health care is over the budget. We can't afford to pay for HC for everyone who doesn't have it. We need to set some limits on our spending. HC is NO ONES 'right'.

[LeighaMason 19]

"To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept." This is a quote from your article.

I have a "right" to have a fire truck come to my house if its on fire, I have a "right" to have police protection, I have a "right" for my children to have an education,

You have a right to these things because you pay for them. That's why you have the right to them! See above, using the quote from your article, this is an absurd concept to have these things because they "impose obligations on another" I do not personally pay for these things they are paid by taxes just like ....oh wait, we aren't going to pay for health care by taxes, we are going to pay for it by premiums.

I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's right. You do.

This includes not watching my neighbors die in the street from hunger, from lack of health care, or from exposure to the elements. Taxes pay for all of these things. Some basic human rights have a monetary cost and to pretend this is the only one is irresponsible.

Have you ever really seen a neighbor die in the street from being hungry in America? I mean, really? If your neighbor was hungry, and you knew it, you would give him some food. In this country we take care of the hungry and homeless with food and shelters. Health care is over the budget. We can't afford to pay for HC for everyone who doesn't have it. We need to set some limits on our spending. HC is NO ONES 'right'.

Yes, people die of starvation in America every single day. When I was a child, here in America, most days my ONLY meal was my lunch at school. (Subsidized by others tax dollars) I have lived in extreme poverty, you haven't. You are not qualified to talk about people starving to death.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Have you ever really seen a neighbor die in the street from being hungry in America? I mean, really? If your neighbor was hungry, and you knew it, you would give him some food. In this country we take care of the hungry and homeless with food and shelters. Health care is over the budget. We can't afford to pay for HC for everyone who doesn't have it. We need to set some limits on our spending. HC is NO ONES 'right'.

Regardless of how much we pay in taxes from a lot to none, we are entitled to public education, fire and police service, municipal services, our streets getting paved, etc..

It is the same with healthcare. Access to it shouldn't depend on your ability to pay. There are those who are working, but don't get healthcare through their employers and don't qualify for medicaid.

They don't have enough money to buy an independent healthcare policy. Plus they might have a pre-existing condition and be denied anyway.

So, let's say they have diabetes or a chronic heart condition. These conditions, while life threatening over time, are not emergency conditions that require ER care. They require constant, vigilant care with a primary care physician. They can't afford healthcare and would be denied anyway.

So overtime, the diabetic's sight goes bad, maybe blind. The kidneys are affected and perhaps start to shut down. Eventually, from lack of care, this person dies.

AND THIS IS OKAY WITH YOU. AND YOU CALL YOURSELF PRO-LIFE? NO WAY ARE YOU PRO-LIFE. ANTI-ABORTION, YES. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL YOURSELF PRO-LIFE AND NEITHER DO OTHERS WHO SHARE YOUR VIEWPOINT ON THIS. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD HEALTHCARE OR WOULD BE DENIED ANYWAY, IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU FOR 44,000 PEOPLE TO DIE EVERY YEAR.

And don't start with your tobacco/alcohol deaths. Those who do either make that choice. They know the risks of death from both and I'm not going to shed a tear about those who deliberately kill themselves with alcohol and tobacco.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Have you ever really seen a neighbor die in the street from being hungry in America? I mean, really? If your neighbor was hungry, and you knew it, you would give him some food. In this country we take care of the hungry and homeless with food and shelters. Health care is over the budget. We can't afford to pay for HC for everyone who doesn't have it. We need to set some limits on our spending. HC is NO ONES 'right'.

On any given night in America, anywhere from 700,000 to 2 million people are homeless, according to estimates of the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty from 1996.

According to the National Coalition for the Homeless, 1.35 million U.S. children are homeless on any given night; this survey was done in 2000. This number was at 3.5 million in 2007.

According to estimates from 1998, death rate is 1529 per 100,000 every year.

You do the math...

I guess we're not doing as good of a job as you think. And this data is over 10 years old. With the current economic conditions and foreclosures, I am sure the numbers are worse.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Cleo's Mom