Health Care

[loserbob 11]

Think about it. Im a 1 man business because Im still new. And because of health cost I cant afford to hire anyone and I do have the work to hire 1-2 people. I had to pay $22,188.00 a year before I pay anything else(not in that order)just to make a point. Add on all other expenses (normal family bills, gas everyday,stock my van with a couple thousand in parts, auto, liability insurance, cell phone bills, office supplies, thousands a year in tools and equipment, just to name a few). Im not whining, Im making a point, "small business is supposed to be the backbone of our country" but they make it impossible to have one and survive let alone grow.

[BJean 16]

Providing insurance for our employees definitely makes us think twice before hiring anyone!

And bob, we pay our employees premiums for the best insurance we can provide, but the same company will not insure my husband or me because of preexisting conditions. Cool, eh?

Tort reform is a slap across the face to freedom loving Americans. Republicans and insurance companies would like for all of us to think that it is an answer to the exorbitant cost of health care due to frivolous lawsuits.

Frivolous lawsuits are not the problem.

I think Cleo's article hit the nail on the head. The problem is the number of genuiine malpractice cases and what does that tell you? That in a lot of cases, we are paying doctors and/or hospitals big bucks for health care that is dangerous to our health.

When a doctor or hospital causes a horrible loss to someone, through negligence or malicious endangerment or just plain ineptitude, and someone loses their life or limb or ability to function, we should have the power to seek redress. Just think what it would be like if doctors and hospitals didn't have to pay for their gross errors!

[Devana 0]

These numbers just astound me. 12 to 22 K a year for health insurance and it sounds like they still are able to deny you coverage for some things.

I pay the highest premium which is $108 per month for my whole family. Everything we've needed we've received immediately. My son has had well over a million dollars in care for an ongoing problem. This has not affected our premiums at all.

I sure as hell don't pay 12 to 22 thousand dollars extra in taxes to pay for this.

I just don't get it. I would think that people would understand that fellow citizens' health can only strengthen a country. This fear of "socialism" and the apparently selfish attitude of "why should I pay and others get the benefits" puzzles me, but I suspect that a lot of people are being influenced by the propaganda of the big insurers.

These guys have a huge investment in the status quo and I have no doubt that they're doing everything they can, both overtly and covertly, to keep things that way. Don't be duped by them.

I always used to lecture my son and his friends about tobacco advertising: These ads are aimed at them. Adult smokers very rarely switch brands and the companies know this. Therefore these ads which appear to be aimed at adults actually contain subtle messages to make them attractive to kids. I would exhort them to be smarter than the companies and not be seduced or fooled by the advertising.

None of these kids are smokers now they are in their late teens. They get it. How come so many adults don't get it when it comes to being manipulated by the health care powers?

[BJean 16]

Devana you've explained part of the situation in America very well. And the reason Americans are so afraid of the idea of socialism is because the Repulicans have for decades run a very effective scare campaign.

In recent history, before the current president was elected, Americans were duped by a corrupt administration and majority Republican congress for the better part of 8 years. Then the voters got a belly full and voted the opposition party into power. But that didn't shut the Republicans up. They didn't want to take a back seat to a Democratic majority, who were elected fair and square. So the fear tactics were stepped up in intensity. And many Americans, being the easily swayed, fickle people that they are, listened. So that's why you see people posting absurd stuff here on LBT about "socialism," "tea bag parties," "birthers" and the rest. But this is only the most obvious problem. The bigger problem with getting things done for us in Washington has to do with the way the system of our government is actually run.

What most often winds up happening in Washington is that our representatives wind up representing the wealthy and huge corporations instead of their constitutents. Now one might ask why they would do this. Afterall they are elected to make sure that they represent their constituents in Washington to help improve America for them.

Unfortunately the way our politics works in America has provided an excellent opportunity for those representatives to become rich by taking money from various wealthy sources to represent them when they vote. It's done in the back alleys but everyone knows it. And your everyday American voter only provides them their salary and benefits. We can't compete with the lobbyists and their abililty to funnel millions of dollars into the hands of our congressional representatives.

And why don't we change the system? The only way we can do that is through those same representatives who are being bribed by the wealthy. What chance do we have?

You might say that we could use our voting power to throw those people out who aren't representing us well. But that isn't the answer. There will only be corruptible people to replace them.

So we're screwed. And until we demand that the system be changed and our president and congressional leaders become incentivized in some way, to do what is right for the country - for the majority of Americans - we can't be surprised how well this system works for large corporations and the wealthy in our country.

But that still doesn't excuse us from being so easily manipulated by scare tactics. I hope you don't think all Americans are so gullible. Millions of Americans know the score and are every bit as frustrated as you can imagine.

Edited February 27, 2010 by BJean

[loserbob 11]

Thats why I always say not to listen to the loudest voices because unfortunately those are the voices of Hannity, Beck and Rush! Although I think we showed them their scare tactics and their "the world is going to end tommorrow"radical, hate mongering, war mongering, conspiracy theory believing ways arent what we believe as a nation!

[loserbob 11]

I live in Pennsylvania. If you lived here BJean you would be able to have same insurance without being denied because you would be considered group coverage. Its either 2 or more, or 3 or more people is considered group and you could choose who you wanted without being denied(for the most part).. My problem is Im not group. Pa. has a law where 1 insurance provider which is chosen by the state(in the case of Pennsylvania the provider is Highmark). First I had to join my local chamber of commerce($175.00 a year)which is fine but the premiums are still higher than normal because its considered a high risk group. So thats why my premiums are still high. Theyre not giving group rates(discounted because of group)there just giving me group coverage with high risk premiums. Its basically like paying for Cobra all the time.

[loserbob 11]

I hope Obama takes a risk and does what he can to pass healthcare because with this much bipartisanship nothings going to change and costs are going to keep rising. And in the end we are the ones getting screwed. Its clear there isnt going to be a compromise, and the dems hold majority. When is someone going to stop talking and argueing and be the "bigger" person" and get something done? Its really getting frustrating!!!

[Devana 0]

But that still doesn't excuse us from being so easily manipulated by scare tactics. I hope you don't think all Americans are so gullible. Millions of Americans know the score and are every bit as frustrated as you can imagine.

Hell no, BJean. The US certainly doesn't have a monopoly on gullibility. There have been so many issues up here that I've just wanted to beat my head against the wall in frustration over.

And, as I've posted in the past, this country has been amazingly enriched by the smart and astute draft evaders who came up in the '60's and '70's and stayed. We're a better place because of them.

I posted on a different thread about my boys going over to the mainland to partake in some of the Olympic festivities and how incensed they were about the Coke pavilion. They felt Coke was trying to restrain and "brainwash" them. They have, in typical extreme teenage fashion, declared the Coca Cola corp to be an evil entity and have vowed never again to touch any of their products.

What really astounded them, however, is what they saw as most people buying into the whole thing. They said that everyone was getting hyped up and cheering all the coke propaganda, and felt like they were the only ones who weren't.

(I'm so proud of them, my free-thinking, analytical guys!)

[loserbob 11]

Also if I burn someones house down I cant make that money up by charging someone else for it, I have to take it as my mistake. Why should we have to suffer because a dr. left an instrument inside someone after an operation its not my fault. Drs. cry about the malpractice laws but they know about the risks(of being sewed)when they become drs. When your dealing with peoples lives like drs. do you have to expect the possibility of lawsuits, especially in the get rich quick(at any means)world we live in today. Thats part of their job, being cautious of mistakes, thats part of the reason they make alot of money. WOULD YOU RATHER BE OPERATED ON BY A DR. WHO WILL BE CAREFUL FOR FEAR OF BEING SEWED, OR ONE WHO DOESNT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING SEWED FOR BEING CARELESS? iF YOU JUST DO YOUR JOB THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE THEN YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY. NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE. wITH THAT BEING SAID, i MAKE MISTAKES ON JOBS BUT iM NOT WORKING AT A LIFE THREATENING JOB, NOR AM i BEING PAID LIKE IT EITHER!The reps. had drs. talking about how to stop rising costs(none of which agreed with dems). I do plumbing work, one of my accounts is a home warranty company(when you buy a house you or the realtor can purchase a home warranty to cover certain problems)I would never tell them ways they could cut costs because they would probably laugh at me. I know plumbing, not insurance. I know how they work and whats covered and whats not but not how to run a warranty(insurance)co. So what gives a dr, the right to tell us how an insurance co. can save to cut costs. They use drs. because 1-Most drs. dont want change because it might involve them making less money(so it serves their agendas). 2-They know most people look at drs. like godly figures because of what they do, so we will believe anything a dr. says! Dont get me wrong, I think drs. are the most important people on earth(as far as what they do)but they get paid like they are also.

[loserbob 11]

Devana, Im a Pepsi person myself!

[loserbob 11]

By the way, my brother-inlaw is an Ear,NoseThroat surgeon in Chicago!

[LeighaMason 19]

I had a hard time deciding to put this under the health care or hypocrisy thread....

Obama to GOP on health care: `Let's get this done'

By ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Writer

Edited for space.

Obama plans to release an updated proposal in the week ahead, likely on Wednesday, according to press secretary Robert Gibbs. Gibbs suggested it would include concepts put forward by Republicans at the summit. One attendee, Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., was contacted Friday by the White House and asked to submit details of suggestions he made to tackle waste and fraud in the medical system, Coburn's spokesman said.

John Hart said Coburn views Obama's legislation as a government takeover and would not be able to support it even if it includes some of his proposals.

"Unfortunately, even before the summit took place the majority in Congress signaled its intent to reject our offers to work together," Coburn said. "Instead they want to use procedural tricks and back-room deals to ram through a new bill that combines the worst aspects of the bills the Senate and House passed last year."

What?? We just said we want to use some of your ideas.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

LM - the republicans have no intention of supporting the healthcare bill regardless of whether it has some of their ideas or not because the democrats and Pres. Obama would get credit for it and they can't let that happen.

But if it gets passed and people see it is a good thing, then you'll see they hypocritical republicans trying to get credit for it, even though they voted against it. They did this with the stimulus.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The trifecta of republican's healthcare ideas:

1) start over (translate: kill the bill)

2) buy insurance across state lines

3) tort reform

I have already addressed #3. Let's look at #2:

the following by Paul Krugman:

In reality, House Republicans don't have anything to offer to Americans with troubled medical histories. On the contrary, their big idea -- allowing unrestricted competition across state lines -- would lead to a race to the bottom. The states with the weakest regulations -- for example, those that allow insurance companies to deny coverage to victims of domestic violence -- would set the standards for the nation as a whole. The result would be to afflict the afflicted, to make the lives of Americans with pre-existing conditions even harder.

Don't take my word for it. Look at the Congressional Budget Office analysis of the House GOP plan. That analysis is discreetly worded, with the budget office declaring somewhat obscurely that while the number of uninsured Americans wouldn't change much, "the pool of people without health insurance would end up being less healthy, on average, than under current law."

Here's the translation: While some people would gain insurance, the people losing insurance would be those who need it most. Under the Republican plan, the American health care system would become even more brutal than it is now.

[BJean 16]

I grew up (mostly) in Oklahoma and it used to be a far different place than it seems to be now. They have some of the biggest tools in congress. And they have turned all extreme in their religious and political views and they keep electing complete nincompoops.

It has always been a rather conservative state in some ways, but it used to be a Democratic state. Some very wonderful prominent and effective politicians in Washington hailed from Okahoma many years ago.

I have been gone for many years, living all over the country, traveling abroad, etc. So I am not sure when this faction of right wing poliltics took over the state. But it is embarrassing and I hate telling people that I went to school there these days.