Health Care

[BJean 16]

Oooh Blondie, you really let us have it didn't you? Well that was a cool post because it points out very clearly that you do not know what you're talking about when it comes to the proposed health care bill. You've bought into the stuff the Republicans are marketing, hook, line and sinker. The government won't be running health care if it passes. But that is just a small part of the laundry list of things you're goofed up on.

You haven't heard one good thing about changing health care because you've closed your mind to it. You've listened to those who oppose it and haven't listened to those who support it. Because if you did, you wouldn't be saying some of the incorrect things that you said.

And not only have you not listened to anything that is supportive of changing the health care industry, you don't seem to realize the reason behind the fat cats in Washington lobbying against the change.

You need to listen to both sides of the argument and become better informed about what a change could mean to the regular citizens in the U.S., instead of just worrying about the insurance companies, pharmacuticals and hospitals profits.

Or are you in the health care industry and know everything and are just joining in the job of misleading the public because you stand to profit from it?

[BJean 16]

patty: "Brown won, becuase he wasn't a democrat, and because he understands what the people really want."

Well that is reassuring! I was afraid that he won because the Republicans came into the state and put out a bunch of lies about his opponent and scared everybody to death.

If it really is because people want to go back to how it was under the Republicans, then it was a good and honest win. *she walks away scratching her head*

[pattygreen 5]

You need to listen to both sides of the argument and become better informed about what a change could mean to the regular citizens in the U.S.

You need to heed your own advice, bjean.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

there has always been a penalty in this country for being married.[end]

So, because of that you advocate making MORE penalties? Leave it to a liberal.

Leave it to a neo-con to only care about it when a democrat is in the white house.

[pattygreen 5]

Ummmmmm... I'm not blaming the percentage of unplanned/unwed production on any 'party'. How stupid is that? See that’s just it, I’m a tad to smart to actually try and blame it on a party or (centrally) any of those other factors. I believe that to be more of a moral decline. Of course, if you look at issues like illegal immigration and welfare, it benefits those people to remain unwed. Also, many of the current tax perks that we are paying for benefit those same groups.

Furthermore, I note through your comments that you assume I am of a particular party. I'm of no particular party. I (like much of the population making a statement now) simply want what is best for this country. WE NEED OPTIONS!

And I don't agree 100% with the current war(s). I believe that it is of substance but I'm not convinced that it's our battle to fight beyond the 9/11 issues. We have far more important issues here at home. I think that illegal immigration is a far more serious and immediately threatening dilemma.

While finding myself not liberal, not dem, not republican, not right wing or of any other party - I feel that it is time for Americans across the board to take this country back to what we were founded on. Oh wait I just realized that makes me an independent as well! Hahaha! Bet that bites that there's an independent out there with a brain that disagrees with you and your tactics. Oopsy... gotta hate that!

There are 'dem issues' I agree with as with any other party. However, as a health care worker I fear for this country if this bill passes. I’ve yet to hear one good reason for this bill to pass. Everything I’ve heard that almost sounded good, was found counter-productive by other slated items and contingencies in the bill. Everyone would have insurance… ummm that’s a clear sign that someone DOESN’T know a dang thing about the bill they are trying to beef up. It won’t cover illegal immigrants – BS! You won’t have to wait for healthcare like other countries – Ummmmm yeah, try that one on someone else. No this won’t affect pharmaceutical companies and their motivation to continue producing new and updated drugs (which would also be a blow to the economy again) – Are you on drugs? It benefits everyone not just the people on welfare – You need to do some more research. I’ve not heard one good solid reason that this is in the best interest of Americans. The only person that seems to benefit from this would be the person that has no insurance at all and that is a situation that needs to be examined on a case by case basis for current or future logical options.

We do need competition in the health care industry. A wonderful option would be to allow shopping for health insurance much like auto insurance and doing away with or finding a way to modify cancellations or non-coverage due to certain conditions. Perhaps a sliding care for cost based on income. BUT NEVER EVER SHOULD WE ALLOW GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE! Have you looked at other countries with this model? Not to mention that every federally run thing I know of is a bust!

Is there really anyone here that can disagree with that? Regardless of which side of the fence you are on, is any part of that so object able that you fail to see the better interest in such 'across the board' options for everyone?

Now... since you want to as sumptuously attack my 'position' and can't play nice in the sandbox ...

I was not a Bush fan. Do I think he did as much damage as the Obama team? No. But I can say that the one thing Bush did that I deem truly controversial was war. I could do a whole laundry list on Obama and the current admin. Most importantly, he isn't listening to the people that voted him in. Can you say - personal agenda? Obama is a President with no former training, hence the whole failure of the hopey changey thing working out.

Perfect example of future politicians that seem to listen to those that voted them in - Scott Brown from Massachusetts. What happened last night was a modern day Tea Party!!! Mass has been a Dem state for a long time and the Republicans took it back. The people of this country are making a statement and Obama seems deadset on not 'hearing' us. I could care less if Brown were Dem or Rep, as long as he understands that he works for the people and proceeds with his elected position knowing that we've put him there to speak for us not to cast votes thinking that he knows what is best for us. The 'knowswhatsbestitis' is a very infectious disease that seems to have consumed Washington and spilled over.

Take the Harry Reid situation! *ugh* Who cares what party he is, I'm disgusted as we all should be! He point blank said, 'If you give me (how many MILLIONS?) in perks for my state, I'll vote for the bill!' Everyone with a brain should be disgusted by this! It's a buyout people!

Instead of fighting over Obama vs. Bush or Health Care Bill vs Current insurance issues... we should be bombarding Washington and demanding more OPTIONS!

Furthermore, the government needs to back off economic issues and let us do what we do best. The Entrepreneurs and business people of this great country will bring us back to where we once were IF allowed. Of course, if the government owns everything ... well that is a chapter we shouldn't allow to happen.

You are allowed to have and believe what you will as I research and do the same but I believe in America. I believe that we will take this country back and that is the CHANGE that we need. It may have to hit rock bottom for it to happen but I believe it will happen. What we are doing and what they are trying to do simply isn't working.

While remaining current and in the know on the things I believe in, I refuse to be aggressive with individuals that don't share my views. *grin* Ya know, you can't learn that way and it is truly indicative of a narrow minded mentality.

I'm all for a respective debate but perhaps you should know more about someone and their beliefs before you go into the typical opposition mode of 'your stupid and don't know what you are talking about b/c you don't believe the same as me' and try to place them into one of those little boxes because you got this one all wrong! I (like many others on here) don't fit a certain stereotype. Just like Mass race, the people will be heard.

excellent post. thanks. Very well said, and I am in agrrement with all of it.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Quote: Pattygreen: The results of this election shows that the people believe it is about time for regular folks to reclaim their government and turn the reins over to people whose judgement is sound, whose intentions are pure, whose votes aren't for sale.

This could possible be the most naive, not to mention stupid, statement you've ever made.

Who are the "regular folks, the pure and whose votes are not for sale" - the republicans? LMAO. REALLY, ARE YOU SERIOUS??? :ohmy:

Will you please do some research and see who funds their elections? Big corporations, big insurance, big pharma, big oil companies, etc..

Pure, votes not for sale, regular folks. Yeah, right!!:biggrin:

[pattygreen 5]

Oooh Blondie, you really let us have it didn't you? Well that was a cool post because it points out very clearly that you do not know what you're talking about when it comes to the proposed health care bill. You've bought into the stuff the Republicans are marketing, hook, line and sinker. The government won't be running health care if it passes. But that is just a small part of the laundry list of things you're goofed up on.

It was planning to run health care before it got it's can kicked from here to there, and you know that!

You haven't heard one good thing about changing health care because you've closed your mind to it. You've listened to those who oppose it and haven't listened to those who support it. Because if you did, you wouldn't be saying some of the incorrect things that you said.

No, it's because there was NO good thing about it.

And not only have you not listened to anything that is supportive of changing the health care industry, you don't seem to realize the reason behind the fat cats in Washington lobbying against the change.

Because they know what's best for us ,right?:biggrin:

You need to listen to both sides of the argument and become better informed about what a change could mean to the regular citizens in the U.S., instead of just worrying about the insurance companies, pharmacuticals and hospitals profits.

Or are you in the health care industry and know everything and are just joining in the job of misleading the public because you stand to profit from it?

People can be opposed to it for other reasons than that. Like not wanting the government to have that much control over us for one. Or not wanting the financial mountain of debt that would come with it.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

People can be opposed to it for other reasons than that. Like not wanting the government to have that much control over us for one. Or not wanting the financial mountain of debt that would come with it.

The CBO has shown that not only will the healthcare reform NOT add to the deficit but that over time it will help to reduce the deficit.

Now, I know you don't believe facts that don't support your opinions. So, your response will just be that you "KNOW" :biggrin: that healthcare reform will cause a mountain of financial debt. Maybe there's a bible quote about Obama's healthcare reform and how much it will add to the deficit.

[BJean 16]

Just because you agree with blondie, patty, doesn't mean that she's factually correct.

And btw, I just saw the results of a poll that indicates that the President still has the majority of Americans' support.

Interestingly, it also indicated that the majority of Americans do not believe that Sarah Palin should run for president.

So what majority are you talking about that is against everything that the President wants for this country?

Like I said, it would be so impressive if the right wing was fighting this hard for something other than themselves.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Also, let's not forget that those polls that show increasing opposition to healthcare reform include those of us who consider ourselves liberals and progressives and who believe that the current bill is too much of a sell-out to big insurance, is not progressive enough and that it doesn't contain a public option, which most people support. So, those liberals poll against healthcare reform, too.

[KartMan 58]

Anybody watch the campaign in Mass? Was it a fair race? Did both sides get a little dirty or did one or the other side get really dirty? Did the Republicans do what they usually do, which is come up with some outrageous lie, broadcast it in ads and phone calls to such an extent that people believe it? Or did the Republican candidate win it on the issues? Or did the Democratic candidate lose it because she was really that bad?

I haven't been tracking it. Just wondering if any of you did.

No more or less dirty than any other campaign as far as I can see. Bottom line from my perspective is that Dems (Obama, the Party and the Candidate) took the seat for granted. The national party didn’t bring out the big guns, Obama didn’t campaign for her, and the candidate had some major blunders (including taking a vacation in December). They thought since Obama won the state by over 20% and that it is a liberal state they had it in the bag. Come on dems, it’s not a freaking game, you can never a take a seat for granted.

We gave this one away.

Say goodbye to healthcare, climate change, women’s rights, gay rights, and every other progressive issue. The Democratic Party deserves exactly what they got in this, unfortunately we all will suffer for it.

I’m so mad I could spit nails:cursing::biggrin:. Oh, and Patty – don’t get too excited. I don’t think Republicans won as much as Democrats lost if you get my meaning.

[BJean 16]

I agree with both of you Kartman and Cleo'sM. There are may progressives and very liberal folks who are disenchanted with the president because he actually has proven himself to be far more moderate and right-leaning than they hoped. So they are registering that in these polls.

That's why it is never a good thing to put too much credibility in polling. Unless the questions are structured properly, you do not know why someone is for or against what the poll is about, just from their answer "yes" or "no."

I would have to answer "yes" to a question that asked, "Are you happy that you voted for President Obama." If the question were, "Are you happy with most of the decisions that President Obama has made during his first year in office?" I would have to respond, "no."

[pattygreen 5]

Sessions Claims Health Care Reform Bill Will Add Billions To Deficit

12/23/2009 2:48 PM ET

(RTTNews) - Senator Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., claimed Wednesday that a new Congressional Budget Office report shows that the health care reform bill in the Senate will "add billions to the deficit."

"The president argued that this legislation would cut billions from Medicare, simultaneously expanding the program for nine additional years, and fully offsetting a spate of new government programs," Sessions said. "In actuality, that is impossible."

He added, "New information from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) proves that the deficit-neutral score is false, and is based on the Democrats' use of clever manipulations of accounting rules."

According to the CBO report, "savings to the (Hospital Insurance) trust fund under the [Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act] would be received by the government only once, so they cannot be set aside to pay for future Medicare spending and, at the same time, pay for current spending on other parts of the legislation or on other programs."

"To describe the full amount of HI trust fund savings as both improving the government's ability to pay future Medicare benefits and financing new spending outside of Medicare would essentially double-count a large share of those savings and thus overstate the improvement of the government's fiscal position," the report added.

Sessions' comments come as the Senate prepares to vote Wednesday afternoon on a procedural motion that, if passed, would put the bill up for a final vote in the Senate. The final vote is expected on Thursday.

It the bill passes the Senate, it would then have to be put up against the House bill, at which point the Senate and House would negotiate a final bill.

by RTT Staff Writer

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Sessions Claims Health Care Reform Bill Will Add Billions To Deficit

12/23/2009 2:48 PM ET

(RTTNews) - Senator Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., claimed Wednesday that a new Congressional Budget Office report shows that the health care reform bill in the Senate will "add billions to the deficit."

"The president argued that this legislation would cut billions from Medicare, simultaneously expanding the program for nine additional years, and fully offsetting a spate of new government programs," Sessions said. "In actuality, that is impossible."

He added, "New information from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) proves that the deficit-neutral score is false, and is based on the Democrats' use of clever manipulations of accounting rules."

According to the CBO report, "savings to the (Hospital Insurance) trust fund under the [Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act] would be received by the government only once, so they cannot be set aside to pay for future Medicare spending and, at the same time, pay for current spending on other parts of the legislation or on other programs."

"To describe the full amount of HI trust fund savings as both improving the government's ability to pay future Medicare benefits and financing new spending outside of Medicare would essentially double-count a large share of those savings and thus overstate the improvement of the government's fiscal position," the report added.

Sessions' comments come as the Senate prepares to vote Wednesday afternoon on a procedural motion that, if passed, would put the bill up for a final vote in the Senate. The final vote is expected on Thursday.

It the bill passes the Senate, it would then have to be put up against the House bill, at which point the Senate and House would negotiate a final bill.

by RTT Staff Writer

I'll trust the CBO's report as opposed to a southern republican, anti-Obama obstructionist.

[Bamablondie1 0]

Oooh Blondie, you really let us have it didn't you? Well that was a cool post because it points out very clearly that you do not know what you're talking about when it comes to the proposed health care bill. You've bought into the stuff the Republicans are marketing, hook, line and sinker. The government won't be running health care if it passes. But that is just a small part of the laundry list of things you're goofed up on.

You haven't heard one good thing about changing health care because you've closed your mind to it. You've listened to those who oppose it and haven't listened to those who support it. Because if you did, you wouldn't be saying some of the incorrect things that you said.

Baby I didn't goof up on anything. It's called 'differing views'.

I've been on both sides of the argument and I'm quite informed. Notably, I'm informed beyond just the articles written by individuals that I like and agree with, unlike some. I know the polls don't lie even when they say things that I don't agree with. I'm seeing that you have a weakness there. Denial is not a good thing and will solve nothing.

Give me reasons to support it other than what I have previously mentioned. Give me something that I can't argue. Give me a reason that benefits every American hands down. *smile* You can't can you? And the first thought you have - WELL NEITHER CAN YOU! Right, but I have no problem admitting that!

I can hear someone's opinion and not become aggressive or hit attack mode and become that person that appears to need either a communication or anger management course. I can coexist.

Note that I never came out and said, 'hey... my beliefs are right and you are all wrong!' Which is something that you seem to do *clears throat* 'you've closed your mind' I do at least acknowledge both sides while acknowledging that I don't agree.

And not only have you not listened to anything that is supportive of changing the health care industry, you don't seem to realize the reason behind the fat cats in Washington lobbying against the change.

Right, everyone that doesn't agree with you is stupid and naive. *chuckles* Why would I listen to what I don't agree with? If it is productive results, I will read it. However, I am not entertaining all the thoughts and opinions of everyone who disagrees me. I don't think anyone on here does. So... tell me again who is coming across like an extreme wing job? Correction, I've totally acknowledged that we need to change the health care industry and address insurance issues. Or did you miss that part in all of your attempt to paint me into a picture? Ooh la la. I realize that this may come as a shock but there will always be 'bad guys' in politics. The goal should be to minimize them and the chaos they cause. None of my previous post stated my opinions regarding lobbyist although you seemed so eager to feel that in for me. *sarcasm* Who taught you to read minds!

You need to listen to both sides of the argument and become better informed about what a change could mean to the regular citizens in the U.S., instead of just worrying about the insurance companies, pharmacuticals and hospitals profits.

This is comical... Can you correct people with your version without repeatedly saying the same things over and over? We are looking for intelligent debate and input on this board - at least I am. I know you think that you've crawled in my head and camped out but like me set you back in your box - YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I DO AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT! I don't want to feel like I'm disagreeing with a teenager. Oh and which side do you want me to listen to, other than just yours of course? Which of the other hundreds of sides? It's not just you and I ya know - speaking of not being close minded.

Or are you in the health care industry and know everything and are just joining in the job of misleading the public because you stand to profit from it?

That would be the equivalent to me asking if you were not in the health care industry b/c you seem to know so little. See my point... Misleading the public? Or saving them from being misled by aggressive circle talking pushers who want them to just shut up, not have an opinion and believe that the reform is in their best interest.

Don't tell me, let me guess... You actually do believe that there's 30 million uninsured/uncovered legal citizens in our country too??? *grin*