Health Care

[pattygreen 5]

as for war, when someone threatens to kill you, you need to fight back, not just let them do it. There is nothing good about war, but it is necessary. Do you think if we just remove our troops that it will all end somehow?

Some countries just want to take over the world. We can't allow that either.

[BJean 16]

C'sM: you are right on target!!!

patty, I believe that our President would like nothing better than to get people busy doing constructive work in rebuilding America. Welfare recipients as well as people like you and me. Perhaps we could give up the time we spend at lap band talk to accomplish something physically worthwhile in our respective communities.

It would get us off our fat asses and that would certainly beautify our surroundings, eh?

[BJean 16]

There is no country threatning you bodily harm. There is a dangerous faction of terrorists that would like nothing better than to kill you. The war has not and will not prevent it.

And you are at far greater risk from our own home-grown terrorists than from Muslim terrorists.

These wars are a diversion. While they make you feel like your government is protecting you from terrorists, the wars are not getting the job done.

And no country has declare war on us so there is absolutely no reason for us to have declared war on them and drop our bombs on their people.

[~Michelle~ 0]

And Michelle, that's what the government programs are designed to do. There isn't the age-old stereotypical scene of able-bodied people lined up with their hands out while the government just crosses their palms with cash without some accountability required.

We're repeated the story of welfare fraud so many times it has become a mantra. Sure there's fraud in nearly every program we support with our tax dollars, but that doesn't mean that the programs aren't working for the greater good. We always need to b vigilent and working to keep any government run program or grant or subsidy honest.

But too many people believe that the programs that help individuals and families are just passing out cash with no real benefit to society. That's not true. And no matter how much we all want to believe that everyone who accepts help is scamming the system, it just isn't true.

Now explain to me how spending the trillions on weapons and defense and war is benefitting Americans as much as the piece of the tax pie that helps individuals does. If you can do that... I'll shut up on the subject. I'm not worried about having to shut up very much though.

There are too many people taking advatage of the system plain and simple. There are far more people taking advantage, then there are people getting help. Something needs to be done about it. Creating more programs isn't going to help. It will just be another crutch for people who don't want to pull their own weight. How does that benefit American's as a whole. I do not believe it is any more benificial then all the money being spent on the war. I am not against helping people, I am against hand outs. I am agianst lazy people living out their lives on welfare. I am against single mothers getting grants for school, and then using it for other things. I am agianst women having one child after another and its ok because I will work to support your kids. I am against single parents getting tax money at the end of the year they did not earn, I earned and I paid for.

We do need defense programs, I do believe that too much money is being wasted there also. I would rather see more money go to our troops and families then toilet seats.

[BJean 16]

Michelle: "We do need defense programs, I do believe that too much money is being wasted there also. I would rather see more money go to our troops and families then toilet seats."

Huh? you kind of had me beliving you might have some peculiar knowledge about government programs and then you come up with that. Just keep bellyaching about welfare... it is so incredibly genius to do that.

[~Michelle~ 0]

Michelle: "We do need defense programs, I do believe that too much money is being wasted there also. I would rather see more money go to our troops and families then toilet seats."

Huh? you kind of had me beliving you might have some peculiar knowledge about government programs and then you come up with that. Just keep bellyaching about welfare... it is so incredibly genius to do that.

And its genius that you complain about money being wasted on the war????

Its also genius to resort to a personal attack.

[BJean 16]

I haven't attacked you, Michelle. I merely made an observation.

How do you justify the money we've spent in Iraq?

[~Michelle~ 0]

I feel your previous post was a bit personal...

How do you justify the money we spend on welfare programs? How can you justify taking from one person and giving it to another?? If these programs were really working wouldn't there be less people living on welfare?

I have never tried to justify the money that is being spent in Iraq, although I am not 100% against the war. I do justify defense programs because we need defenses.

I am sick and tired of working my ass off, and every pay period I see how much the government keeps of my money. Then I think about how much of my hard earned money goes to someone who does not work. They sit on their ass, get free food, free health care, reduced rent, milk for their babies, and so on. Then at the end of the year it's tax time, then I have to see how much I paid in taxes all year, I am lucky if I get back $200, and I am by far rich. Then there are the ones who get back more then they paid into all year because they fall into a low income tax bracket, and on top of it get food stamps, government funded health care, subsided rent, free child care, and so on. This for me is a much bigger issue then some of the others. I do not believe in taking from the rich, and not so rich, and giving it to the poor. I am not including people who are truely disabled.

Edited January 5, 2010 by ~Michelle~

[pattygreen 5]

C'sM: you are right on target!!!

patty, I believe that our President would like nothing better than to get people busy doing constructive work in rebuilding America. Welfare recipients as well as people like you and me. Perhaps we could give up the time we spend at Lap Band Talk to accomplish something physically worthwhile in our respective communities.

It would get us off our fat asses and that would certainly beautify our surroundings, eh?

Our 'president' doesn't have any right to get poeple to be busy doing anything in America. That's not his job or call. Welfare recipients should, however, be doing something for their handout, not those recieving nothing or paying into the system.

[BJean 16]

Oh patty, what we need from a president falls exactly into the category of inspiring people to do better in our country.

What we don't need from a president is fear mongering and a total lack of regard for people who aren't wealthy, not giving them any incentives or encouragement.

We need a leader - not a dictator.

[BJean 16]

Michele, I totally understand your feelings about welfare. I don't know anybody who doesn't hate paying taxes. I don't know anybody who doesn't feel the unfairness of working hard and having to give a chunk of their paycheck to the government to oversee the well being of our country.

Especially if it means that while we're working hard and paying taxes, the people who benefit directly are not working hard to better themselves and making an effort to get off any assistance. I feel that way too. Who doesn't?

But this is America and we don't let people starve. We don't let them perish from neglect and the lack of medical care. We don't ignore our children when they are without food. We don't want people living on the streets like they do en masse in places like India.

Sure we make mistakes and allow some people who do not need help, to get it. But better that than children dying from disease and forced prostitution or a life of begging on the streets.

As for the defense budget in this country. I am a strong proponent of a healthy defense. I believe that is what keeps us safe. But how much defense makes sense? How much of the weaponry that we purchase is actually nessary and how much is designed to line the pockets of large defense contractor's CEO's and lining the pockets of the congressmen who vote for those programs?

We should put things into perspective. I don't want to waste money giving out aide to people who can provide for themselves, but are too lazy.

But I have a far bigger problem with fantistically wealthy men who take advantage of us taxpayers by building programs and munitions that we don't need simply for the purpose of making themselves personally extremely wealthy. Those monies spent by our government and paid for with our hard work are obscene and our country gains nothing from it.

[tdslf1 0]

You will be paying taxes as long as you work. You can like it or don't. And those taxes will be going to the poor and those pesky programs, sorry. Oh, I know why don't you just quit and live off the government and see how good that feels to not pay taxes. Why don't we all do it and nobody pay taxes. Then we can go back to no roads and bridges being built, cleaN Water and fresh air in the industrialized towns. Yeah, those triffling poor people, just live like fat cats, with all the vacations they take and 4 star insurance, and buying all the diamonds and Ipods. They have it great.

[BJean 16]

I do get tired of people complaining about the poor unfortunates who wear Nike shoes, buy IPods and buy junk food and cigarettes with all the government money they rake in. To hear them tell it, there is nobody who receives assistance who needs it or deserves it. They are all on the public dole and they're healthy, strong individuals who are just lazy bastards who won't work.

If I thought they actually monitored these programs and knew what they were talking about, it wouldn't be irritating at all. But it feels like perhaps they are repeating the rhetoric that constantly gets recirculated by the whiners who resent anybody getting a dime from any government program.

I suppose if I hadn't heard the same arguments my whole life, which is considerable, I might not be so skeptic about their knowledge of the true status of public assistance recipients.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I feel your previous post was a bit personal...

How do you justify the money we spend on welfare programs? How can you justify taking from one person and giving it to another?? If these programs were really working wouldn't there be less people living on welfare?

I have never tried to justify the money that is being spent in Iraq, although I am not 100% against the war. I do justify defense programs because we need defenses.

I am sick and tired of working my ass off, and every pay period I see how much the government keeps of my money. Then I think about how much of my hard earned money goes to someone who does not work. They sit on their ass, get free food, free health care, reduced rent, milk for their babies, and so on. Then at the end of the year it's tax time, then I have to see how much I paid in taxes all year, I am lucky if I get back $200, and I am by far rich. Then there are the ones who get back more then they paid into all year because they fall into a low income tax bracket, and on top of it get food stamps, government funded health care, subsided rent, free child care, and so on. This for me is a much bigger issue then some of the others. I do not believe in taking from the rich, and not so rich, and giving it to the poor. I am not including people who are truely disabled.

Actually, if the fat cats paid their fair share of taxes, you could probably pay less, but as this op-ed shows, they don't and the trend has been going on for a long time:

Up until the Reagan years, the top income tax rate was never lower than 70% at any time since the early 1930s, and as recent as 2007, only 46,000 tax returns filed had TAXABLE incomes in excess of $5,000,000. There were over 96,000,000 TOTAL tax returns filed, so this is less than ½ of 1% of the total tax returns. Taking this a step further, the total taxable income on these 46,000 returns was just under $670 Billion, and the total income taxes were around $154 billion, for an effective rate of around 23%. In fact, those who filed tax returns with taxable income exceeding $10,000,000 had a LOWER effective tax rate than those who had taxable income between $200,000 - $9,999,999.

I’ll repeat that once more: If you had taxable income exceeding $10 million, you paid at a lower tax rate than anyone with taxable income between $200,000 and $9,999,999.

Just by doubling this (depending on how this is indexed and what rates are used at each level), you'd get an additional $100+ billion per year, no,? Why not call it the "fat cat" tax - who is going to side with those making over $5 or $10 million to give a little back for all they have? Add in something like higher taxes on non-wage income (why should people who work hard be taxed higher than those who are earning income off of accumulated wealth that most people don't have the luxury to have?) and this could go even higher. The argument about those who earn more give more to charity is nice but quite frankly, there are far too many people in far too much need of far too many things to have this be a valid argument in these times. If paying an effective tax rate of 50% (still lower than any time since the 1930s) will stop people from giving to charity, then that is pretty telling.

Also, why not change the makeup of the estate tax? Did you know that for this "hot button issue that MUST be addressed" there were only 17,000 taxable returns filed in 2007 and under 14,000 filed in 2008?. That’s all. That would be hitting less than 1/3 of the filers noted above, or 1/6 of 1% of income tax filers.

The biggest argument I've heard is how people have to sell their parents house or family business to pay this tax, so why not exempt those 2 things, as well as farms, with caveats such as the residence must have been lived in for at least 5 or 10 years prior to death, lower the threshold and make it a tax on untaxed and inherited wealth? Call it the trust fund baby tax, the lazy brat tax, the leech on society tax or something like that? It isn’t like exempting family businesses or homes would have too much of an impact anyway with the right structure, as stock, cash and cash-type assets make up the largest piece of taxable assets anyway so the theory of a trust fund lazy brat is even more applicable here.

It is outrageous how the tax rate on the very wealthy has gone down over the decades and the average working person has to make up for this lost revenue.

[~Michelle~ 0]

I do get tired of people complaining about the poor unfortunates who wear Nike shoes, buy IPods and buy junk food and cigarettes with all the government money they rake in. They are all on the public dole and they're healthy, strong individuals who are just lazy bastards who won't work.

This happens, and it happens a lot more then most would like to admit. On top of it these people contribute absolutely nothing to society. So why should they reap benifits from those who do contribute to society.

I am not referrring to ones who are truely disbaled, or the ones who may have lost their jobs and have fallen on hard times. The ones who have fallen on hard times are the ones who use it for what it is meant for, to get back on thier feet. They don't live on it, they don't abuse it. The disabled need it. I also don't have so much of problem with a single mother that works, but can't seem to make ends meet. I do think there should be limitations on how long you get benefits, because there are programs to help single mother's get back in school, so they can get a job that pays better. This doesn't happen though, and a lot of them just keep having babies. How does that become my responsiblity or the governments? These people have choices to make, they make bad ones, and I have to pay for it?????