First Lady now requires 26 servants

[BJean 16]

patty: "When Obama said that America wasn't a Christian Nation, he threw the first stone. That Christmas, and not Yom Kippur or Ramadan, is a national holiday in America indicates our Christian Heritage. That does not mean that non Christians and unbelievers do not have a right to live here freely. The Christian dissenter should not have the right to censor the believer. Although they try at every option to do just that. "

That sounds very intolerant to me. "Christian dissenter"?? "Censor the believer"?? The right wing faction of the Christian religion wants to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that their beliefs are the only true beliefs and that other religions should be deemed secondary religions in this country. They want the government to put the Christian faith at the top of their to-do list. If the government did that, they would be practicing intolerance and forcing exclusion on millions upon millions of American citizens.

That is why left wingers know that having a secular form of government is the only fair and right form of government for a free nation.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I've already posted the video which shows President Obama saying: The United States in not JUST a christian nation....

But as I've said before, some people don't let facts stand in the way of their beliefs. They just keep repeating lies because in the past this tactic has worked. We progressives have to fight hard against these swift boat tactics and take back our country from these extreme fringe right wingnuts.

[pattygreen 5]

patty: "When Obama said that America wasn't a Christian Nation, he threw the first stone. That Christmas, and not Yom Kippur or Ramadan, is a national holiday in America indicates our Christian Heritage. That does not mean that non Christians and unbelievers do not have a right to live here freely. The Christian dissenter should not have the right to censor the believer. Although they try at every option to do just that. "

That sounds very intolerant to me. "Christian dissenter"?? "Censor the believer"?? The right wing faction of the Christian religion wants to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that their beliefs are the only true beliefs and that other religions should be deemed secondary religions in this country. They want the government to put the Christian faith at the top of their to-do list. If the government did that, they would be practicing intolerance and forcing exclusion on millions upon millions of American citizens.

That is why left wingers know that having a secular form of government is the only fair and right form of government for a free nation.

Who says we want to pretend that our faith is the only one there is? Or that we want to stick our heads in the sand? We understand that there are many people of many different religions everywhere. We want others of differing faiths than the one that this nation was founded on to recognize that this Nation was first and foremost "Christian". We want them to know that the Christians here will be very tollerant of their differing faiths, unlike other nations, and accept anyone of any faith to dwell alongside us here.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

One thing that really annoys me is the need to correct Obama's misreading of U.S. History. He should know better after all, since he is the President of this country. America was a Christian country in its early days and the modern day secularists are intolerant of God in public places, yet say it is the Christians in this country who are the intolerant ones. Just because many Christians believe that their views are the only correct one, does't mean they are intollerant. Tollerance is allowing dissenters the freedom to worship the way they want. Because the US has no established church, people of differing philosophies must learn to live together. We are more successful in that than many muslim countries. When Obama said that America wasn't a Christian Nation, he threw the first stone. That Christmas, and not Yom Kippur or Ramadan, is a national holiday in America indicates our Christian Heritage. That does not mean that non Christians and unbelievers do not have a right to live here freely. The Christian dissenter should not have the right to censor the believer. Although they try at every option to do just that.

Here's the video:

Obama "not just a Christian nation" // Current

And I'm calling you out Patty for leaving out the important word "JUST" when Pres. Obama says we are no longer JUST a christian nation... and he is correct. We are not.

You need to admit that you misrepresented what he said. It makes all the difference. Quit perpetuating internet lies from the extremist right wingnuts like Glenn Beck, et al.

[pattygreen 5]

Here's the video:

Obama "not just a Christian nation" // Current

And I'm calling you out Patty for leaving out the important word "JUST" when Pres. Obama says we are no longer JUST a christian nation... and he is correct. We are not.

You need to admit that you misrepresented what he said. It makes all the difference. Quit perpetuating internet lies from the extremist right wingnuts like Glenn Beck, et al.

Did Obama say Americans do not consider the U.S. a Christian nation? - ObamaFactCheck.com#

Obama said we are not a christian Nation at a conference in Turkey. He also said we are not a jewish or a muslim nation. I agree with him on that. But I disagree tht we are not a Christian Nation. We started out as a Christian nation and we set up things here as a Christian Nation with "all men being CREATED equal". He can say that we are not Christian any longer all he wants, and so can you, but it doesn't make it so. The majority of people living in this nation believe in Jesus as their Savior and STILL believe this nation is Christian. We are tolerant of every faith and of course we all allow evryone to practice the faith of their choosing, but we will never deny that we are a Christian Nation and that God brought us here for the freedom to worship Him without oppression or rule over us. The reason we are the best Nation and the most powerful and the most blessed is because God has given us this land and He and He alone has his blessings upon us.

[BJean 16]

Ok so your head's not in the sand. It's in the clouds. Dreamily swaying to the chant. God didn't GIVE us this nation. We took it.

When the founding fathers decided to make it a free country where people from any other country were welcome to come here and join us and enjoy the freedoms they worked to guarantee for all of us, that set the stage for this country to be a melting pot of cultures and religions.

The founding fathers did not say, "You can come here if you agree to a govrenment that is based entirely on Christian doctrine and that you must promise to follow those Christian beliefs in order to be a citizen. In fact, they said quite the opposite.

They wanted to guarantee that people could come here and practice any religion that they believed in without interference from the government.

If our government starting mixing religion with laws, things could change from what our founding fathers set out for us. Eventually, probably slowly, the laws would be structured to favor the Christian faith and could exclude all other faiths in the process. And the more we allowed that to happen, the closer we would could get to having a nation like Iran, where the people who do not practice a certain religion (in our case, Christianity) would be outcasts and discriminated against by the people in control of the government.

We obviously have to guard against that kind of religious domination in this country. It's what our founding fathers promised and it's what our Bill of Rights and our Constitution provide for all of us.

Having you repeat over and over that this is a Christian country and that the large marjority worship as Christians, doesn't make what I've said any less important. Separation of church and state is the only way this country will survive and be the nation that our founding fathers promised us. They knew that and that is exactly why they wrote those documents to ensure that any one religion did not have the power to rule over all others.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Did Obama say Americans do not consider the U.S. a Christian nation? - ObamaFactCheck.com#

Obama said we are not a christian Nation at a conference in Turkey. He also said we are not a jewish or a muslim nation. I agree with him on that. But I disagree tht we are not a Christian Nation. We started out as a Christian nation and we set up things here as a Christian Nation with "all men being CREATED equal". He can say that we are not Christian any longer all he wants, and so can you, but it doesn't make it so. The majority of people living in this nation believe in Jesus as their Savior and STILL believe this nation is Christian. We are tolerant of every faith and of course we all allow evryone to practice the faith of their choosing, but we will never deny that we are a Christian Nation and that God brought us here for the freedom to worship Him without oppression or rule over us. The reason we are the best Nation and the most powerful and the most blessed is because God has given us this land and He and He alone has his blessings upon us.

In the link you provided President Obama said that the people (us) of the United States don't consider us a chrisitan or muslim or jewish nation. Your original post said that Pres. Obama says that we are not a christian nation. Again, you are misrepresenting what he said.

STOP YOUR DISTORTIONS!!!!

All of us need to call out those who spread lies, distortions, misrepresentations, and hate. That's what the swift boaters did. I will not allow this to happen. It is my duty as a patritotic american.

[BJean 16]

Every time I think of the Swift Boat campaign that set out to ruin a good American who served his country with honor, I want to throw up. Seriously! Nothing can justify that kind of traitorous behavior and the perpetrators of those lies and that dirty scheme should have been prosecuted.

[pattygreen 5]

In the link you provided President Obama said that the people (us) of the United States don't consider us a chrisitan or muslim or jewish nation. Your original post said that Pres. Obama says that we are not a christian nation. Again, you are misrepresenting what he said.

STOP YOUR DISTORTIONS!!!!

All of us need to call out those who spread lies, distortions, misrepresentations, and hate. That's what the swift boaters did. I will not allow this to happen. It is my duty as a patritotic american.

He said,"WE do not consider ourselves a Christian nation.....etc." Whose WE? He was talking about himself and the rest of us Americans. He's wrong. So what LIE am I spreading or misrepresenting? Did He say it or not?! Go back and listen again. "We do not consider ourselves a Christian Nation"

Is America No Longer a Christian Nation?

The government of America is secular, but the society of America is christian. The first amendment freedom of religion clause was to bar any federally supported establishment of religion and any federal interference with the free expression of religion. Our society is overwhelmingly christian and has been since the pilgrims wrote the Mayflower Compact which begins, "In the name of God, Amen." The society was here before the government was. When the Constitution was formed, the founders saw the gov. as amounting to a very small part of the nations total government. The rest was comprised of the States, municipalities, and the people, who were to be left free to govern themselves. Today, the situation is reversed. The Gov. has become all powerful. Now it is no longer a federal government, but a national one. It dictates to the states and the people. Our supposed servant is now our master. It's not "We the people" anymore. It's now "We the government." The founders wanted freedom from government, not dependence on it. Governemnt is a Pig that feeds on your liberty, property and privacy, and they knew it from experience. The Constitution was intended to govern the government, not the people. Some people want government to rule everything. They don't understand the value of freedom or its role in America. The first Amendment was for a separation of church and state, but not for a separation of God and state. In Great Britain, if you weren't a member of the established church of England, you couldn't vote, own property, go to college or many other things. But, you still had to pay the taxes to support the church. You would be fined or imprisoned and even executed for unorthadox religious practices. That's why the Pilgrims, who were unorthadox, came to America: for religious freedom. They never intended to divorce all religious expression from public life, let aone supress it by government action. The declaration of independence has 4 references to God in it. "Nature's God", "Creator", "Supreme Judge of the World", and "Divine Providence". The collective meaing of those eferences is this: God, not government, is the source of our freedom, sovereignty, rights, justice, and human dignity. We are one nation under God. Or founders stated repeatedly that for a republic such as ours, only the moral restraints of the bible would keep American liberty from degenerating into tyranny.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

In this link he said that we don't consider ourselves a christian nation or a jewish nation or a muslim nation. And we don't. And that changes the meaning from just saying that he said we don't consider ourselves a christian nation. So again, you were distorting and misrepresenting. AND I AM CALLING YOU OUT ABOUT IT.

Now, since you hate/distrust the federal government so much, I am sure you will have no problem signing the TEABAGGER SOCIALIST-FREE PURITY PLEDGE:

Daily Kos: State of the Nation

It's over 2 pages of things the federal government provides for the betterment and welfare of a civilized society that you would have to give up. But since you find it all too intrusive and overstepping anyway, you should have no problem renouncing all of it.

[pattygreen 5]

In this link he said that we don't consider ourselves a christian nation or a jewish nation or a muslim nation. And we don't. And that changes the meaning from just saying that he said we don't consider ourselves a christian nation. So again, you were distorting and misrepresenting. AND I AM CALLING YOU OUT ABOUT IT.

CALL ME OUT!!!! Duh! "We are not a christian Nation." "We are not a muslim nation." "We are not a Jewish nation." Yes, he said them all! But, what part of "We are not a christian nation" don't you get? He should have said, "We are a Christian nation that welcomes all other faiths such as muslims and jewish faiths, etc."

Now, since you hate/distrust the federal government so much, I am sure you will have no problem signing the TEABAGGER SOCIALIST-FREE PURITY PLEDGE: I never said that I hate the government. Distrust? Now that's an understatement. Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't like alot of the things that the government does. It started out as a right thing that gradually overtook the freedoms of the American people over time. And now it has bankrupted us.

Daily Kos: State of the Nation

It's over 2 pages of things the federal government provides for the betterment and welfare of a civilized society that you would have to give up. But since you find it all too intrusive and overstepping anyway, you should have no problem renouncing all of it.

Are you trying to say that without the government, the people of this country would not have been able to provide any of those things listed in your attached post? You live in la la land. The people in theUSA have always been able to fend for themselves, until the government slowly and gradually began to "provide" them with free handouts. But who can resist? They know it is within every man to take what he can get for free rather than to work for it. If they could get every human dependent upon them, then they can have full control. They're almost there. Why do you defend the government as you do? Do you see honesty and justice within their walls? Or is it just the man, Obama, that you like? I ask because any rational person can see that what the government has been doing is killing us financially. It seems that everything that they attempt to do for the 'good' of the people fails.

Is America No Longer a Christian Nation?

We were discussing the fact that America is a christian nation. Did you even glance at my attachment?

BTW, how does the government provide me with the splendor of the Grand Canyon?( Just one of the many stupid government provisions that were listed in your attachment) The last time I went out to see the canyons, I marveled at God's creation.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Are you trying to say that without the government, the people of this country would not have been able to provide any of those things listed in your attached post? You live in la la land. The people in theUSA have always been able to fend for themselves, until the government slowly and gradually began to "provide" them with free handouts. But who can resist? They know it is within every man to take what he can get for free rather than to work for it. If they could get every human dependent upon them, then they can have full control. They're almost there. Why do you defend the government as you do? Do you see honesty and justice within their walls? Or is it just the man, Obama, that you like? I ask because any rational person can see that what the government has been doing is killing us financially. It seems that everything that they attempt to do for the 'good' of the people fails.

Is America No Longer a Christian Nation?

We were discussing the fact that America is a christian nation. Did you even glance at my attachment?

BTW, how does the government provide me with the splendor of the Grand Canyon?( Just one of the many stupid government provisions that were listed in your attachment) The last time I went out to see the canyons, I marveled at God's creation.

Yes, I support President Obama and his agenda. The federal government is my government and NO, I don't think that we the people would be able to provide most, if any, of the services listed. And the Grand Canyon is part of the NATIONAL Park Service, so federal funds are used for the upkeep of this park. Please contact your state and local governments and send them this list and ask them what would make it possible for them to provide these services to its people without federal help. Or contact the Chamber of Commerce and ask them how private business could provide these things again without federal help. Then let us all on here know what they say. I look forward to hearing their answers.

You're the one who lives in la la land.

Hey people - which of the following are you going to provide for yourself without federal help? :frown:

Roads & Highways

US Railway system

Social Security

Medicare/Medicaid

SCHIP

Military

Public Water & Sewer Services

[pattygreen 5]

You don't understand those who are opposed to the government getting soooooo big. It's not that we don't want ANY government, we don't want soooo much of it. There needs to be a balance. The government was set up to take care of our national defense, roads, highways, and protection, like police, military, etc. I have said this all along. It's when the government adds to this list at a rate that far exceeds our abilities to fund them where we begin to have a problem. There is no need for breaking the bank 500X over. How irresponsible can they get?! Obama spends money like it's Water and he has all of it he could ever need or desire. It's not. The well is dry.

[BJean 16]

patty- if it weren't for people who served this country well in the government, the Grand Canyon wouldn't be a wonderment for you to see. It would be lined with hotels, homes of the very wealthy and probably casinos.

to quote you patty: "...only the moral restraints of the bible would keep American liberty from degenerating into tyranny."

There are more tyrannical governments based on religion than there are based on a secular form of government. What we must also be very careful of is having one religion dictate how everyone else must live. Religious fanatacism produces the most tyrannical-thinking people of all. I believe that your posts above certain tend to lean in that direction. I'm way more afraid of religious terrorists who operate under the guise of religion than I am of the democratic form of a secular government.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

You don't understand those who are opposed to the government getting soooooo big. It's not that we don't want ANY government, we don't want soooo much of it. There needs to be a balance. The government was set up to take care of our national defense, roads, highways, and protection, like police, military, etc. I have said this all along. It's when the government adds to this list at a rate that far exceeds our abilities to fund them where we begin to have a problem. There is no need for breaking the bank 500X over. How irresponsible can they get?! Obama spends money like it's Water and he has all of it he could ever need or desire. It's not. The well is dry.

When we got out of the depression as a result of World War II spending - that spending amounted to 40% of the Gross Domestic Product. I hope you don't think we just had that kind of money "lying around" - it was borrowed. And as a country, we survived this. The stimulus under Pres. Obama amounts to about 4%-6% of the GDP.