First Lady now requires 26 servants

[pattygreen 5]

First of all, good luck in finding someone who wants to put themselves out of a job. And secondly, what is wrong with a lifetime of public service whether it is as an elected representative or teacher or police officer? If someone isn't doing a good job - we do have term limits - it's called VOTING. But as a country, we are pathetically poor at using our priviledge or voting.

I may be wrong, but I thought there were no term limits for congress.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

You are totally spot on, Cleo'sMom! And everyone knows it. Why else would there be so many extremely personal attacks on the man and his wife? If it were really just about the decisions he's made and wants to make, there would be more substantive discussion about the specifics of these things.

Instead what we hear is about his spending - period. No discussion of WHY he has done what he has done or how better it would have been solved if he had taken a different action. And certainly no concessions on the fact that it looks like some of his actions may have saved this country from economic collapse.

We didn't hear public outcry from these people when Bush was spending billions every week on the Iraq war - and untold amounts of money that went unaccounted for. They were instead, busily justifying the war and calling people unpatriotic if we criticized the war in Iraq. They even said that we and Obama weren't supportive of our troops because we didn't want the war!!!!!

Now they're blathering on about spending and Michelle's shorts, the family vacation, Michelle's staff because what? she's a princess? And making up stuff about death panels and birth certificates.

To say that it is not the man that they don't want or approve of is a lie. If it really were the issues they care about, they'd discuss the issues and have well-thought out alternatives.

As for Bill Clinton's presidency, he was all about doing what they seem to want. He cut military spending, he did some revising of welfare and he balanced the budget. You'd think that if it really were about spending issues, they'd be singing the praises of Bill Clinton and holding him up for Obama to emulate. But nope, when they talk about Clinton, it's in reference to Monica Lewinsky and what a no-good man he is and what a lousy president he was because of his indiscretions.

We know what the right wing is all about. And unfortunately for them, there's no disguising it anymore. They're all out front about it and everyone in the media and personally should be calling their hands on it.

Good job Cleo'sMom!!!

And HappyCC - glad you joined the party on this thread.

Thanks, BJean. This thread was started because PG was SOOO outraged that Michelle Obama is spending $1.6 million on staff vs $1.4 million by Laura Bush.

Yeah, it's about spending and not the person, right. :blushing:

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I may be wrong, but I thought there were no term limits for congress.

There are term limits in the form of voting a person out of office if the voters believe that person is not doing a good job. When people get voted in year after year then it means the voters are satisfied. If they don't like the job he/she is doing then limit his/her term by voting him/her out. Term limits are the lazy voters way out.

[KartMan 58]

suddenly all the conservative right is concerned about spending.

True. We are suddenly concerned about spending because THE SPENDING HAS SUDDENLY BECOME UNSUSTAINABLE!!!!!!!!!! Bush did his share and now Obama has more than doubled that!

We can't afford it any more! This is all about incredible out of control spending! He wants a plan that will cost us TRILLIONS!!! I have NO trust for anyone in Congress or the White House. I am changing from a Republican to an Independent. My next vote will be to oust all those who are presently in and to put in fresh, new faces who have a heart for the people. The only one who will get my vote is one who will vote for term limits. Some of the congressmen we have now have been in there for 52 years!!!! They have made a lifetime career out of public service. George Washington would not serve more than 2 terms, even though he could have, because he felt that anyone who spent more time than that in office would think he was entitled. Boy was he right!

Patty, I don’t agree with you on much of anything, but I do agree with term limits. I wouldn’t limit people form serving in different capacities, but I would be in favor of limiting a specific role. For example, you could serve say 4 terms in the House – then move on to the Senate or some other role, but not back to the House. I would also advocate lengthening the term from 2 years to 4 years for the House. It seems like those guys are in campaign mode from the moment they get elected.

[KartMan 58]

There are term limits in the form of voting a person out of office if the voters believe that person is not doing a good job. When people get voted in year after year then it means the voters are satisfied. If they don't like the job he/she is doing then limit his/her term by voting him/her out. Term limits are the lazy voters way out.

Yes and no. The incumbent has a huge advantage in any election which has been shown to sway the results in their favor. I don’t see term limits as a lazy way out, just one way to remove an fair advantage in the system. I would be for a system of term limits under the right circumstances. I would also like to see serious spending caps on campaigns, more transparency in voting records vs contributions, public financing, and a host of other reforms. Have I mentioned I’m for all reform? Gonna change my account name to ReformMan :blushing:

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The downside of term limits is that if you keep it at 2 or even 4 years for congressmen then no one would run or those who would run would run on one issue (want to speculate who those people would be and what issue it would be)? Then they could get in, do their damage, and be gone before having to live with the consequences that we would have to live with.

It takes a tremendous amount of money to run for congress and even more for the senate. I doubt many would put forth the effort to be gone in 2 or 4 years but there would be plenty of corporate money to get their candidate in if even for a few years. And we know what they would advocate.

Why don't people just vote? It's shameful that so few people exercise their right to vote. They sure don't have any problem with the right to assemble (and shout).

[HappyHomeCC 2]

I guess Patty has not spent time outside our nation.

Bottom line is what has been happening for years can NOT continue. The money spent during the Bush Admin was used for War among other things I am sure, BTW what the heck happened to the pallets of cash sent to Iraq, and whos idea was that??? DOH!

All we did was take money away from our nation, we did NOT do any thing good with this war thing other than create more terrorists. We have more broken people out there now than ever before. We have Vets lives taken or destroyed. Countless citizens of the other countries we have invaded who have lost everything they had even multiple generations of one family leaving often a sole survivor that is hopeless and angry.

Look At Gaza, Oh wait lets not go there... we have provided Israel with weapons and $$$ to reak havoc on these people. Killing innocent people, children and old people. does killing one "enemy" justify these masacures? I don't think so. would you like someone to bomb your neighborhood to get one bad guy?

One Israeli is killed and it is all over the news, a neighborhood is leveled in Gaza and we don't hear about it.

I challenge you to watch AlJazerra news or PressTV and get a different view on world news... forget your CNN, FOX and MSNBC for a while. Our news is so full of celebrity gossip and sensationalized stories it is a joke. Where are the important stories? The Christian Chronical does a better job too.

BTW Patty I do agree with you on one point so far.... CHINA... they have too much economical power in our country.... borrowing from them to buy oil, buying crap products that contain harmful substances...OMG This is crazy.... drives me nuts. I have boycotted Walmart, and I try to check labels at every retailer... If there is a choice I make it accordingly.

OH yeah and term limits

Edited September 9, 2009 by HappyHomeCC
forgot term limits

[HappyHomeCC 2]

The downside of term limits is that if you keep it at 2 or even 4 years for congressmen then no one would run or those who would run would run on one issue (want to speculate who those people would be and what issue it would be)? Then they could get in, do their damage, and be gone before having to live with the consequences that we would have to live with.

It takes a tremendous amount of money to run for congress and even more for the senate. I doubt many would put forth the effort to be gone in 2 or 4 years but there would be plenty of corporate money to get their candidate in if even for a few years. And we know what they would advocate.

Why don't people just vote? It's shameful that so few people exercise their right to vote. They sure don't have any problem with the right to assemble (and shout).

Terms don't have to be specified at 2 or 4 yrs, it could be 8 or 10 pending the office and the feasibility.

Yeah Voting .... My brother doesn't vote, but he grumbles and I tell him to come back and talk to me after he votes, My grandfather was a Marine, and he always said, I fought to give you this right to vote use it... If you don't pack up and leave or shut the hell up! LOL My husband has been a citizen for 11yrs and he votes.

[pattygreen 5]

I would also like to see serious spending caps on campaigns,

That would be great! The average person doesn't have a chance against those with millions.

[BJean 16]

Didn't we borrow from China to keep the war in Iraq going?

And patty must be very conflicted about that. She supports the war but is against borrowing for it.

It is downright silly when someone says that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are keeping us safe. They think that by sending our troops over there to die, then the average American citizen or two thousand might be saved because we're keeping the terrorists off our soil. What about the thousands of American lives that have been lost in Iraq and Afghanistan? Don't they count at all? Aren't they just as important as you and I or the people who worked in the World Trade Center? How can one say they are being patriotic by supporting a senseless war that is killing our men and women? That's what they think is caring about our troops and supporting them? Oh my.

[BJean 16]

I heard a Brit say today that their campaign time before an election is 4 weeks! I get goose bumps thinking about how great that would be for us. But kartman is right, that would give a huge advantage to incumbents because they already have exposure during the term they won.

The interesting thing about term limit debates is that the congress will only do something if we rise up and influence the media to make them so uncomfortable that they seriously address the issue.

But if they can't agree on something as basic and important as health care, just think what a can of worms would be for them to try to agree on term limits. That's like getting them to vote on giving up free postage for their mailings.

[BJean 16]

Cleo'sMom and HappyHomeCC are totally right - why don't we vote?

I think many people don't vote because they are so busy working, taking care of their families and making ends meet, they don't want to spend the time researching the candidates. So they just sit back and take whatever they get.

Most of them don't think it makes a lot of difference which party is in office anyway. Which is wrong, of course, but that's what a lot of people think.

If our voting rights were taken away, we would begin to understand how important the right to vote really is.

I feel a strong undercurrent today of a fast-emerging Independent party coalition. I've always said that there will never be enough Independent registered voters and money behind them to be a driving force in a national political race. However with the extreme right wing neocons take over of the Republican party, I am changing my tune. I think that there are a lot of moderate Republicans who feel they have no choice but to switch over to the Independent party. There may even be some moderate Democrats who join it as well. So maybe in 2012, it might just amount to something.

I have to say that the longer President Obama is in office though, the more moderates will see that he is actually a relatively moderate president. Things are certainly getting very interesting.

I am relieved that the media, due to last nights' outburst in the joint session, is finally reporting on how ridiculous and inappropriate the extremists are behaving.

[pattygreen 5]

I think there will be many republicans joining the independents. People are SICK of both parties. I for one am joining the independent party. We need someone who will STOP all the MAD spending!!!

[BJean 16]

Hows come you got that crazy little red box thingy, patty?

[HappyHomeCC 2]

I think there will be many republicans joining the independents. People are SICK of both parties. I for one am joining the independent party. We need someone who will STOP all the MAD spending!!!

you may join another party Patty but your core believes will not change. so it won't make any difference really.

For anyone that has owned a business, (I have had a few) the phrase "It takes money to make money"

I can tell you countless dollars spent on advertising thousands actually.... it is long term thinking. you have to spend it to have exposure on your business to attract customers. well with the nation the mess that it is in it is going to take a hell of a lot of money to get things rolling, it is long term thinking. It is not Obamas fault Bush went into 2 countries, that he threw money at Israel, that he borrowed from China, etc. so ya know have to agree with the opinion that it is more about the man than the money, .