First Lady now requires 26 servants

[KartMan 58]

kartman I learned a long time ago that if there was a really well constructed, easy to understand essay posted, with no misspellings, no gramatical errors at all, it is probably not one of us who authored it.

Now most people at LBT always do the right thing and cite their sources. But there are always a few who would like to take credit for someone else's compositions. It's wrong, even though this isn't something that is to be published or a term paper or a thesis we're writing. This is a public forum and if one is to be given any credibility, one must cite one's sources and when one is quoting even another LBT member, it is unfair and wrong to do it incorrectly.

I have had my words quoted and emphasis put on certain sentences that had no emphasis on them originally and things lifted and moved to change the meaning. There are no guarantees here that people will play fair and I take it as a very obvious indication of the kind of person I'm dealing with.

I have no problem in someone pulling together sources form the internet and using them here, I do it all the time. In fact I often include links so that people don’t think I am just making something up. It just came across in the opening sentence that Patty wrote that it was HER idea and that it was original. Sometimes there is a fine line between paraphrasing and plagiarizing. I think this was the later.

[BJean 16]

patty I have asked you before and I am asking you again - do not change the way I posted my words without making a note that you did it.

I am not someone who takes stuff to the top. I like to take care of my own business on my own. But you're trying to force my hand here and I don't appreciate it and I will do something about it.

As for God having Mercy on me. I have no doubt that God is well aware of the meaning of my words and Jesus is supremely happy with my defense of the words that he said and the meaning of them.

You on the other hand will have some serious explaining to do.

[KartMan 58]

You keep confusing 'heath care reform' with 'a government run health care insurance plan'. 2 Different things. Republicans want reform. Reform is a change in the way things are run. (Ins. companies, trial lawyers, medical professionals).We want reform, just not the kind that's being offered. You know, the government insurance option.

You know what Patty? It’s really all about compromise? If I had my way, we would have Single Payer (sort of like Medicare for all). Obviously, you would be for no Government Insurance at all (which if you are consistent, should mean that you wish to abolish Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA as well). Guess what? The middle ground here is the Public Option, not really what either of us wants but a compromise nonetheless.

Edited September 9, 2009 by KartMan

[KartMan 58]

When Obama campaigned on 'change', most thought he meant a change in the way the government does things. We thought he meant he wanted to get rid of government corruption and deception and out of control spending and social programs and 'pork'. We thought he meant to 'change' the way the government tries to take control of us. We thought he meant to change the corruption in Congress. This is not what he meant by 'change'. He meant 'change' us from a free country to a socialistic one. We don't want that kind of change. We want to go back to what our founding Fathers set up and planned for this country.

You are being just a little disingenuous here. You are implying that you were “for” his change (whatever that change was) and now you are upset that you didn’t get what you bargained for. You didn’t vote for him and you didn’t support ANY of his change. Guess what? I did, and I am a happy customer. In fact, I think I’ll shop here again.

[HappyHomeCC 2]

wow, this thread is really interesting. Kartman, BJean and Cleos Mom. I am on your team.

PattyGreen,not to pick on you but have you ever lived in another country , or have family who have to see how others live? I know Kartman I asked this on your other thread.

I have found over and over again, that the majority of the people that oppose the "changes" and are the most "angry" are those who have not been anywhere.

[pattygreen 5]

You are being just a little disingenuous here. You are implying that you were “for” his change (whatever that change was) and now you are upset that you didn’t get what you bargained for. You didn’t vote for him and you didn’t support ANY of his change. Guess what? I did, and I am a happy customer. In fact, I think I’ll shop here again.

You're right I didn't vote for him. None the less, I still thought he was speaking about 'change' in the way Government needed it. (corruption, greed, lies, spending, pork projects, that kind of thing)

[pattygreen 5]

I wouldn't want to live in any other country but America.

But, America has become a slave to the rest of the world economically. Especially China.

Here's a scenerio for you. The husband and breadwinner of the family lost his job 2 months ago. He hasn't told his wife or family. He doesn't want them to know for fear of what they would say. So, he continues to act as if the money is in the bank every week. He still goes out to eat and purchases things they need and want using credit cards. Not just one card, but many of them. They soon are all maxed out. Eventually, they are coming after him for the money he owes, and he decides to take out a loan with a bank. The bank gives him the money, he repays some of his credit card debt, but it's not enough. He is still keeping up the charade with his wife and family, so he is still living it up as usual, and the debt is climbing. He needs to see a loan shark and the mob, and after he gets his money from them, he spends it on his charade. He can't pay back the loan shark or the mob. The problem is the loan shark ALWAYS gets his money one way or the other.

This debt that America owes is unsustainable! If they don't STOP all the spending, we will lose everything to the rest of the world around us. Open your eyes and stop being sooooo blind to it. Of course we all want better medical care for less. But at what expense? Now, before the gov decides to start yet another financially failed program, let's do something about other options that wont COST us anything. I've named them all before. My question to you all is this: What has the governement done for you in the past that has given you such high and trusting regard for their word and deeds? The only thing that has changed in Washington is the face of the president. Their corruption, dishonesty, stealing and greed has not. They make laws for the good of the people they say, yet have a different and seperate set of laws for themselves. I don't trust a lick of them!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I wouldn't want to live in any other country but America.

But, America has become a slave to the rest of the world economically. Especially China.

Here's a scenerio for you. The husband and breadwinner of the family lost his job 2 months ago. He hasn't told his wife or family. He doesn't want them to know for fear of what they would say. So, he continues to act as if the money is in the bank every week. He still goes out to eat and purchases things they need and want using credit cards. Not just one card, but many of them. They soon are all maxed out. Eventually, they are coming after him for the money he owes, and he decides to take out a loan with a bank. The bank gives him the money, he repays some of his credit card debt, but it's not enough. He is still keeping up the charade with his wife and family, so he is still living it up as usual, and the debt is climbing. He needs to see a loan shark and the mob, and after he gets his money from them, he spends it on his charade. He can't pay back the loan shark or the mob. The problem is the loan shark ALWAYS gets his money one way or the other.

This debt that America owes is unsustainable! If they don't STOP all the spending, we will lose everything to the rest of the world around us. Open your eyes and stop being sooooo blind to it. Of course we all want better medical care for less. But at what expense? Now, before the gov decides to start yet another financially failed program, let's do something about other options that wont COST us anything. I've named them all before. My question to you all is this: What has the governement done for you in the past that has given you such high and trusting regard for their word and deeds? The only thing that has changed in Washington is the face of the president. Their corruption, dishonesty, stealing and greed has not. They make laws for the good of the people they say, yet have a different and seperate set of laws for themselves. I don't trust a lick of them!

We won two world wars, our government gave us several programs that are socialism that have helped keep the elderly out of poverty: social security and medicare. Try getting the elderly to give up these two much loved programs. I know that financially they are in trouble but that's because there are fewer wage earners paying into them and more recipients. The only solution to that is to increase payroll taxes or reduce benefits. Why do you not hear anyone proposing this? Because while the public apparently doesn't object to paying higher and higher health care premiums, they do not want increased payroll taxes. Another solution would be to make 100% of wages/earning eligible for social security taxes instead of the first $105,000. That means that almost all of us pay social security taxes on 100% of our wages but people like Bill Gates only pays it on his first $105,000. I support a bill to change this.

Our government is responsible for safe working conditions in our workplace, food and drug safety, a 40 hour work week, child labor laws, government loans for students and higher education, clean Water and air laws, safer cars, disease control, flu shots, medical research dollars....and the list goes on.

Bill Clinton balanced the federal budget and left with a surplus but bush spent that surplus and increased the deficit to historical records, at the time, but I didn't hear all the outrage about spending then. I didn't hear cries from the right about all the borrowing from China to finance an unnecessary war in Iraq. I didn't hear anyone complaining about blank check after blank check being given to bush for this war. With little oversight. I'm still waiting to find out where the missing $18 billion went that Halliburton couldn't account for.

bush was given a free pass. Not once from March 2003 until January 19, 2009 did I hear one person ask bush where he was getting the money from to fund the Iraqi war. NOT ONCE.

But now we have a democratic president who is CLEANING UP BUSH'S MESS AND ADDRESSING IMPORTANT ISSUES NOT ADDRESSED BY BUSH and suddenly all the conservative right is concerned about spending. It's easy to ignore important issues, like healthcare, that need to be addressed. Then you just pass the problem on to your successor. bush did that.

Obama, thankfully, isn't afraid to take the bull by the horns.

This smacks of the partisan BS it is. It rings hollow and is nothing more than a smoke screen for the real issue, that I, too, have said before:

PEOPLE WHO NEVER SUPPORTED OBAMA, DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM, HATE HIM, AND DON'T ACCEPT HIM AS PRESIDENT ARE NOW BASHING HIM IN HOPES THAT HE FAILS.

That is the real agenda and any attempt to divert from this with this phoney outrage about spending is insulting to those of us who know the truth behind all of this.

[pattygreen 5]

bush was given a free pass.

True. We should give Obama a free pass, too. Let's allow him to spend us into oblivion. If Bush got a free pass to do his spending, why not Obama?

If your husband had gone on a spending spree and maxed out the cards, your idea would be to do the same? "That will teach him!" No. STOP the madness and don't be like minded! For his credit is also your credit.

[pattygreen 5]

suddenly all the conservative right is concerned about spending.

True. We are suddenly concerned about spending because THE SPENDING HAS SUDDENLY BECOME UNSUSTAINABLE!!!!!!!!!! Bush did his share and now Obama has more than doubled that!

We can't afford it any more! This is all about incredible out of control spending! He wants a plan that will cost us TRILLIONS!!! I have NO trust for anyone in Congress or the White House. I am changing from a Republican to an Independent. My next vote will be to oust all those who are presently in and to put in fresh, new faces who have a heart for the people. The only one who will get my vote is one who will vote for term limits. Some of the congressmen we have now have been in there for 52 years!!!! They have made a lifetime career out of public service. George Washington would not serve more than 2 terms, even though he could have, because he felt that anyone who spent more time than that in office would think he was entitled. Boy was he right!

[pattygreen 5]

PEOPLE WHO NEVER SUPPORTED OBAMA, DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM, HATE HIM, AND DON'T ACCEPT HIM AS PRESIDENT ARE NOW BASHING HIM IN HOPES THAT HE FAILS.

Like I said before: This is what you hope for. You want it to be fore that reason. You want it to be because we didn't get the man we voted for. You want it to be because we hate him. You want it to be because we don't accept him. If that's what you want to think, then think it.

But I know it's because of what he's doing to our country. If he fails as a president, it's because he is like all the rest of the politicians in Washington. Looking out for thier own jobs and not for the good of the people. Believe me, he's no different than Bush, Clinton, or any of them.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

suddenly all the conservative right is concerned about spending.

True. We are suddenly concerned about spending because THE SPENDING HAS SUDDENLY BECOME UNSUSTAINABLE!!!!!!!!!! Bush did his share and now Obama has more than doubled that!

We can't afford it any more! This is all about incredible out of control spending! He wants a plan that will cost us TRILLIONS!!! I have NO trust for anyone in Congress or the White House. I am changing from a Republican to an Independent. My next vote will be to oust all those who are presently in and to put in fresh, new faces who have a heart for the people. The only one who will get my vote is one who will vote for term limits. Some of the congressmen we have now have been in there for 52 years!!!! They have made a lifetime career out of public service. George Washington would not serve more than 2 terms, even though he could have, because he felt that anyone who spent more time than that in office would think he was entitled. Boy was he right!

First of all, good luck in finding someone who wants to put themselves out of a job. And secondly, what is wrong with a lifetime of public service whether it is as an elected representative or teacher or police officer? If someone isn't doing a good job - we do have term limits - it's called VOTING. But as a country, we are pathetically poor at using our priviledge or voting.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

PEOPLE WHO NEVER SUPPORTED OBAMA, DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM, HATE HIM, AND DON'T ACCEPT HIM AS PRESIDENT ARE NOW BASHING HIM IN HOPES THAT HE FAILS.

Like I said before: This is what you hope for. You want it to be fore that reason. You want it to be because we didn't get the man we voted for. You want it to be because we hate him. You want it to be because we don't accept him. If that's what you want to think, then think it.

But I know it's because of what he's doing to our country. If he fails as a president, it's because he is like all the rest of the politicians in Washington. Looking out for thier own jobs and not for the good of the people. Believe me, he's no different than Bush, Clinton, or any of them.

It's not what I hope. It's what I know. Spending seems like a legitimate issue to gripe about but since there was no similar griping about it when bush did it then the only logical conclusion to come to is that it is about the PERSON and not the spending.

The same people who were screaming at the town halls, who hung Obama in effigy, who portrayed him as Hitler, the birthers, the deathers, those who demand to see his college transcripts, those who think he is going to take our guns away, those who think he is going to brainwash our students by telling them to stay in school and study hard, who criticize Obama's vacation or Michelle Obama's wearing shorts, ad infinitum, ad nauseum - THESE PEOPLE ARE ALL ONE AND THE SAME AND THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ALSO MAKE IT ABOUT THE SPENDING , TOO. They are irrational extremists who will never accept anything Obama wants to do.

The reason I know it's about the man, Obama, and not about the issues, is that you didn't hear any of these same people complain about the spending or abuses of the bush administration. And there were many.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

bush was given a free pass.

True. We should give Obama a free pass, too. Let's allow him to spend us into oblivion. If Bush got a free pass to do his spending, why not Obama?

If your husband had gone on a spending spree and maxed out the cards, your idea would be to do the same? "That will teach him!" No. STOP the madness and don't be like minded! For his credit is also your credit.

Democratic president Clinton ended his term with a surplus. I would think that those who were concerned with spending would have celebrated that and given him credit (I didn't hear any) and then turn around and blast bush with the same ferocity we see now with Obama - for squandering a surplus and putting us in the greatest debt to date. Again, I didn't see any - and the hypocrisy is staggering. It isn't about the AMOUNT Obama is spending - it is about the man and this proves it.

[BJean 16]

You are totally spot on, Cleo'sMom! And everyone knows it. Why else would there be so many extremely personal attacks on the man and his wife? If it were really just about the decisions he's made and wants to make, there would be more substantive discussion about the specifics of these things.

Instead what we hear is about his spending - period. No discussion of WHY he has done what he has done or how better it would have been solved if he had taken a different action. And certainly no concessions on the fact that it looks like some of his actions may have saved this country from economic collapse.

We didn't hear public outcry from these people when Bush was spending billions every week on the Iraq war - and untold amounts of money that went unaccounted for. They were instead, busily justifying the war and calling people unpatriotic if we criticized the war in Iraq. They even said that we and Obama weren't supportive of our troops because we didn't want the war!!!!!

Now they're blathering on about spending and Michelle's shorts, the family vacation, Michelle's staff because what? she's a princess? And making up stuff about death panels and birth certificates.

To say that it is not the man that they don't want or approve of is a lie. If it really were the issues they care about, they'd discuss the issues and have well-thought out alternatives.

As for Bill Clinton's presidency, he was all about doing what they seem to want. He cut military spending, he did some revising of welfare and he balanced the budget. You'd think that if it really were about spending issues, they'd be singing the praises of Bill Clinton and holding him up for Obama to emulate. But nope, when they talk about Clinton, it's in reference to Monica Lewinsky and what a no-good man he is and what a lousy president he was because of his indiscretions.

We know what the right wing is all about. And unfortunately for them, there's no disguising it anymore. They're all out front about it and everyone in the media and personally should be calling their hands on it.

Good job Cleo'sMom!!!

And HappyCC - glad you joined the party on this thread.