First Lady now requires 26 servants

[pattygreen 5]

Please be specific about what rights have been taken away from you under Obama.

It's only been less than a year that he's been in office. We are standing up against our right to have free enterprise in this country without the government getting involved. They are trying to take that 'right' away from us. They have already gone into the banking business and now they would like to start a health insurance business that will knock out all others and be the only one to survive which will in turn leave us without choices.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Please be specific about what rights have been taken away from you under Obama.

It's only been less than a year that he's been in office. We are standing up against our right to have free enterprise in this country without the government getting involved. They are trying to take that 'right' away from us. They have already gone into the banking business and now they would like to start a health insurance business that will knock out all others and be the only one to survive

The banks asked to be bailed out. The insurance industries asked to be bailed out. GM and Chyrsler asked to be bailed out. Ad infinitum. Free enterprise is a misnomer. First, there is no constitutional guarantee of a free enterprise. Secondly, our corporations receive a lot of government welfare paid for by taxpayers. That's not free. But I don't see anyone one the right complaining about that.

The government is already in the health insurance business. It's called Medicare, Medicaid, and VA health benefits. And those who receive these government health benefits are happier with them than those who receive private health insurance.

Why would those on the right, and private industry, who think the government can't do anything right, be worried that this inept government will put them out of business? You can't have it both ways. Inept and a threat?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And this preacher defends, supports and promotes the bible you base your life on. Who got it wrong?

The preacher who pulled such an atrocity.

How could that be? Are you saying he came to a different conclusion about how to represent what God wants and what the bible says? If there is only one truth then how could his truth, a man of God, want people to pray for the death of Obama?

Or is it possible for people who base their opinions on the bible to get it wrong?

[HappyHomeCC 2]

It's only been less than a year that he's been in office. We are standing up against our right to have free enterprise in this country without the government getting involved. They are trying to take that 'right' away from us. They have already gone into the banking business and now they would like to start a health insurance business that will knock out all others and be the only one to survive

The banks asked to be bailed out. The insurance industries asked to be bailed out. GM and Chyrsler asked to be bailed out. Ad infinitum. Free enterprise is a misnomer. First, there is no constitutional guarantee of a free enterprise. Secondly, our corporations receive a lot of government welfare paid for by taxpayers. That's not free. But I don't see anyone one the right complaining about that.

The government is already in the health insurance business. It's called Medicare, Medicaid, and VA health benefits. And those who receive these government health benefits are happier with them than those who receive private health insurance.

Why would those on the right, and private industry, who think the government can't do anything right, be worried that this inept government will put them out of business? You can't have it both ways. Inept and a threat?

I chuckle because I think "W" was hoping to get out of office and pass the torch before the whole economy crashed.... I am glad it was tumbling before he left, otherwise everyone would blame Obama for the fall! He has been proactive trying to make changes, lets face it it is a daunting task. Would you or I want it or be able to clear it up?

BTW thank God and your government for healthcare, in the form of medicaid or medicare, my mother bashes other countries methods, "it is socialism" But you know what she would be dead literally with out her government run medical program. and heck she applies for more programs and when she gets denied she is pissed and left to fend for herself or I foot the bill..... SO ... Where will you be when you are 65?

BTW my mother has never left the country and has no friends or family outside the US but she speaks with so called "authority" on other nations healthcare.... she has NOT A CLUE! Her opinion is based on what she has "heard".

[KartMan 58]

I'm not saying that ins. reform is not needed. I'm saying we don't need the government starting it's own medical ins. company. We need insurance rules and regulations. Most who are against Obama's health care plan, are not against medical care reforming, they are against Government medical care insurance.

I don’t think that is true. I think that the organizers of the groups that are leading the opposition to the reform are actually against Obama and not necessarily against any one component of the reform. They see this as a way to drive a wedge into his popularity and their best chance of defeating him in the mid-terms and ultimately in 2012. The way I see it, if he backs down on the public option he will be admitting defeat and he will be weakened by it. I think he should use the mandate he was given in November and the majorities he has in both houses of congress to push through Health Care for all as right and not a privilege.

[pattygreen 5]

It's only been less than a year that he's been in office. We are standing up against our right to have free enterprise in this country without the government getting involved. They are trying to take that 'right' away from us. They have already gone into the banking business and now they would like to start a health insurance business that will knock out all others and be the only one to survive

The banks asked to be bailed out. The insurance industries asked to be bailed out. GM and Chyrsler asked to be bailed out.

I had a business once that wasn't doing so well and needed some financial help with. Where was my bailout? This is my point. I don't care how big your business is, the gov. has no business funding it with MY money. The government is supposed to pretect and defend us from foreign attacks, provide for infastructure and roads and highways, secure military, police and those in authority to protect the rights of others. Not be in business for itself, and spend money on every huge thing it deems nice to have.

GM and Chyrsler asked to be bailed out. Ad infinitum. Free enterprise is a misnomer. First, there is no constitutional guarantee of a free enterprise. Secondly, our corporations receive a lot of government welfare paid for by taxpayers. That's not free. But I don't see anyone one the right complaining about that.

The government is already in the health insurance business. It's called Medicare, Medicaid, and VA health benefits. And those who receive these government health benefits are happier with them than those who receive private health insurance.

No. they are not happier. Medicare, Medicaid, and VA benefits do not cover all their health care benefits. If on those ins. plans, they need to take out secondary ins. to pay for what it doesn't cover. They still have to purchase insurance privately.

These government run programs are going bankrupt. I heard Obama tell us that himself in a recent speech. If they're hitting the dust for lack of funds, what do you think will hapeene to Obama's national plan? This is what I mean, EVERYTHING the government runs, runs out of the funds needed to operate it. The cost of doing business the governments way is extremely expensive. For everyone they hire to run the business recieves lavish benefit plans and pensions that outlive their jobs end.And I could talk forever about how they waste money.

Why would those on the right, and private industry, who think the government can't do anything right, be worried that this inept government will put them out of business? You can't have it both ways. Inept and a threat?

Then take the threat of health care business companys away from us by governing the things they can and cannot do if they choose to stay in business. I once ran a daycare business. The State made sooo many rules for me to follow in order to keep children safe at daycares. I needed to stay within the State's guidelines if I wanted to continue to operate my business. So I did. This is what government is for. To control through regulations what companies can and can't do. The gov. has the power to do this, but they choose not to. Why? Why not control the trial lawyers from making million dollar settlements and therefore raising the cost for all of us in our ins. premiums because the doctors have such high medical insurance payments to make to protect them from frivilous lawsuits? Why not a cap on them? Because Obama's right hand washes the left hand. These lawyers funded his presidential campaign. (milliions) And that's the way politics works. You do for me, and I'll take care of you.

[pattygreen 5]

How could that be? Are you saying he came to a different conclusion about how to represent what God wants and what the bible says? If there is only one truth then how could his truth, a man of God, want people to pray for the death of Obama?

Or is it possible for people who base their opinions on the bible to get it wrong?

If what you plan to do contradicts with the word of God, it's not God who is telling you what to do.

It is possible for people who base their "opinions" on the bible to get it wrong. But the word of God stands alone. Noones "opinions' are needed to read it or understand it. It says what it says.

Edited September 8, 2009 by pattygreen

[HappyHomeCC 2]

Then take the threat of health care business companys away from us by governing the things they can and cannot do if they choose to stay in business. I once ran a daycare business. The State made sooo many rules for me to follow in order to keep children safe at daycares. I needed to stay within the State's guidelines if I wanted to continue to operate my business. So I did. This is what government is for. To control through regulations what companies can and can't do. The gov. has the power to do this, but they choose not to. Why? Why not control the trial lawyers from making million dollar settlements and therefore raising the cost for all of us in our ins. premiums because the doctors have such high medical insurance payments to make to protect them from frivilous lawsuits? Why not a cap on them? Because Obama's right hand washes the left hand. These lawyers funded his presidential campaign. (milliions) And that's the way politics works. You do for me, and I'll take care of you.

I hear you on the daycare thing, I myself am licensed. I have been licensed for almost 12 yrs. I think Dang if they take away the use of swings I am screwed LOL. But the majority of the regulations have been for the safety of the kids. Locking spa tops, smoking in the home, .... Some have been put in place because we are a sue happy nation with no common sense. Many providers count on safety gadgets and gates to substitute for actually "watching" the kids. My contract went from 3 pages all the way to 12 with in a few years... why? common sense! I have to add important things about medications and fevers, and also trivial things about letting trash fall out of the car and leaving it on my driveway. Proper language in my home. etc.... rediculous!!!!!! So if you have to deal with that crap just caring for 6-8 kids imagine the school or the nation. Everyone is looking for a get rich plan... #1 way that people think to come up with a bundle of cash..... a LAWSUIT.

When I was living in Spain some years back I saw a car hit a moped, the man went flying off.... the driver got out ... helped the man up,checked to see if he was ok, checked his moped and they hugged , kiss on the cheek and they were off.... no exchange of information NOTHING !!! I stood in awe could NOT believe what I just saw. Oh by the way, government run car insurance!!! cheap too!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I had a business once that wasn't doing so well and needed some financial help with. Where was my bailout? This is my point. I don't care how big your business is, the gov. has no business funding it with MY money. The government is supposed to pretect and defend us from foreign attacks, provide for infastructure and roads and highways, secure military, police and those in authority to protect the rights of others. Not be in business for itself, and spend money on every huge thing it deems nice to have.

And did you start up the daycare with all your own money or did you receive a loan from the SBA - a government assisted program? When you needed financial help, did you ask for a loan from a bank? Did you ask for help? You show your naivite (sp?) when you say government money isn't involved, or shouldn't be, in private businesses. It's called corporate welfare, mainly in the area of big tax breaks.

Locally, a huge Westinghouse research plant was closing in a nearby town. They were going to move out of state. This would have resulted in thousands of jobs being lost locally. Good paying, white collar jobs. So, our governor convinced them to move to another local town and gave them a huge tax break - no taxes for many years. Now, who do you think is making up for their not paying taxes? The rest of us. But it saved the jobs of these people, who own homes, buy in local stores and pay taxes, etc. So, this is government involvement in private industry. And if our governor hadn't made the tax incentive to them, another governor of another state would have. So, who is wrong in all of this? The conservative right is always about creating jobs in the private, not public, sector. Isn't the above scenario doing just that? But it took government involvement.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

No. they are not happier. Medicare, Medicaid, and VA benefits do not cover all their health care benefits. If on those ins. plans, they need to take out secondary ins. to pay for what it doesn't cover. They still have to purchase insurance privately.

These government run programs are going bankrupt. I heard Obama tell us that himself in a recent speech. If they're hitting the dust for lack of funds, what do you think will hapeene to Obama's national plan? This is what I mean, EVERYTHING the government runs, runs out of the funds needed to operate it. The cost of doing business the governments way is extremely expensive. For everyone they hire to run the business recieves lavish benefit plans and pensions that outlive their jobs end.And I could talk forever about how they waste money.

I know you don't let facts interfere with your opinions, but polls have shown that those on medicare are happy with this plan - 60%- which is higher than those on private plans.

No, medicare doesn't cover 100% of everything. No insurance policy does. There is always a deductible and co-pays. Those on medicare then have to decide if they want to pay the deductibles/co-pays or buy medigap insurance.

Those currently on medicare are being paid by those current wage earners who pay into this. There are fewer wage earners per medicare recipient as time goes on. The only way to solve this is to reduce medicare benefits or raise medicare payroll taxes. Which one of these would the american people accept? I would hope that they would accept an increase in payroll taxes to the same degree that those who support private insurance are apparently happy with and accepting of increased insurance premiums.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

If what you plan to do contradicts with the word of God, it's not God who is telling you what to do.

Are you admitting that someone who claims to know the word of God in the bible could get it wrong?

[BJean 16]

patty:" Why not control the trial lawyers from making million dollar settlements and therefore raising the cost for all of us in our ins. premiums because the doctors have such high medical insurance payments to make to protect them from frivilous lawsuits? Why not a cap on them? "

Why not control lawyers? Why would you think it is perfectly fine to control the legal business but you think it is wrong to control the medical industry? You think that the insurance companies are gouging us because of malpractice lawsuits?

Well, sure there are outrageous awards given in malpratice cases and the insurance companies slap it to the people who buy their insurance. The reality is that the insurance companies aren't penalized for covering a doctor who is so incredibly bad at his chosen field that he caused the death or maiming of a patient. WE are penalized. And explain to me how that improves our ability to get insurance and medical care, please.

The answer to good health care isn't in disallowing US to file lawsuits against the quacks. That's just what the insurance companies want. We're playing right into their hands by buying into that ridiculous gambit.

We should always have the right to seek redress for malpractice or gross negligence. Why in the world would you think that it is a good thing for the government to take OUR power away and give it to insurance companies? We in absolutely NO WAY benefit from it. The insurance companies would - but trust me, they will never drop your premiums or the amount of coverage you get. It just doesn't happen that way.

If we have tort reform it should be simply about the courts tightning the rules about what is a reasonable cause to sue. I'm all for no frivilous lawsuits. But that can be handled by the courts.

For some reason people have decided that the government taking action to favor insurance companies will cause our healthcare to improve. Why? Because that's the bills of goods that the insurance companies are selling and we've decided they're right. Hogwash!!

Bill Clinton (and others) have tried to expose the problems Americans have with getting proper medical treatment and he tried to come up with a plan that everyone could live with that would actually improve our medical care and the way we pay for it. He was stopped in his tracks. Do you know how long ago that was???

The way he was stopped in his tracks was typical B.S. that the Republican party (the party of the wealthy, the party of large corporations) managed to cloud the real issues with. They jumped on Hillary Clinton and made a mockery of her participation in the work at White House. She was personally criticized (like Michelle is now) and they screamed at the top of their voices how HILLARY was not elected and she should have absolutely NO VOICE in government policy or even proposals for governmental policies. They fought Bill Clinton every friggin' step of his presidency and he was nearly brought to his knees before he got started.

Now we're seeing the same treatment of our current president and his wife. Did Bush or Lara have this problem? Well, er, not hardly. They were idolized because they used words like, "education president" and "patriot" and "teacher" and "christian" like it was a prerequisite for the office. He played ball, Lara played ball. They did exactly what they were told and the right wingers got their way and they got their war and now they're mad as hell because that may be coming to a halt - although as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on that.

I would like to say that this outrageous, hateful behavior that the extremists are hurling against our president and his wife is shocking to me. But it is not. It is business as usual for the right wing extremists who are the tools of big business in this country. What does always tend to amaze me is how the economically middle class and poor in this country can be used in this way. They show up at meetings and they write on the internet and say all the buzz words that they've been fed and they continue to chant those things when there is every evidence to the contrary.

So I am very disappointed in the policial climate in this country. I am disappointed at how dangerous it has become. I am disapopinted at how the right wing supported media incites the ignorant people who are being brainwashed and used. And at this point I am disappointed in our new president because he's actually trying to work with these people. He should know better but he is obviously an idealist and a fair person. He's what Americans deserve, but what we wind up with in the end, too much of the time, is a country that is controlled by the extremely wealthy. It is a country where the man on the street is manipulated and used and doesn't even seem to be aware of it.

When I read that someone here at LBT insists that we have the best medical care in the world, and ignores evidence to the contrary all I can think is... God help us.

[KartMan 58]

I had a business once that wasn't doing so well and needed some financial help with. Where was my bailout? This is my point. I don't care how big your business is, the gov. has no business funding it with MY money. The government is supposed to pretect and defend us from foreign attacks, provide for infastructure and roads and highways, secure military, police and those in authority to protect the rights of others. Not be in business for itself, and spend money on every huge thing it deems nice to have.

Would you then suggest we do away with the SBA? Look it up. It is a government program (funded with tax dollars) that helps many small businesses get started and stay running. Oh, and by the way, by all accounts it works pretty well. Sweeping remarks like yours about all programs being bad and government involvement in business being the end to democracy are not only small minded, they show your lack of true understanding of how our system works.

[KartMan 58]

I know you don't let facts interfere with your opinions, but polls have shown that those on medicare are happy with this plan - 60%- which is higher than those on private plans.

No, medicare doesn't cover 100% of everything. No insurance policy does. There is always a deductible and co-pays. Those on medicare then have to decide if they want to pay the deductibles/co-pays or buy medigap insurance.

Those currently on medicare are being paid by those current wage earners who pay into this. There are fewer wage earners per medicare recipient as time goes on. The only way to solve this is to reduce medicare benefits or raise medicare payroll taxes. Which one of these would the american people accept? I would hope that they would accept an increase in payroll taxes to the same degree that those who support private insurance are apparently happy with and accepting of increased insurance premiums.

LOL:lol:

Facts? We don’t need no stinking facts.

In all seriousness, the Right in this issue just doesn’t have a lot of facts on why Health Care reform is a bad idea. In fact it’s not a bad idea and they know it, but it may be a way for them to strike a blow to Obama. That is why they throw blood in the Water with things like “death panels”, gutting Medicare for seniors, putting a bureaucrat in you doctors office, blah, blah, blah. This country has needed reform for a long time and we are finally on the cusp of getting it right. Patty, I’m sorry – you are being duped by the people in the industry that fear that their cash cow is going to go away. I know you don’t believe it, and that is sad for you. But it will be even sadder for they country if we collectively fall for this BS yet again and do nothing.

[Devana 0]

Why not control the trial lawyers from making million dollar settlements and therefore raising the cost for all of us in our ins. premiums because the doctors have such high medical insurance payments to make to protect them from frivilous lawsuits? Why not a cap on them? Because Obama's right hand washes the left hand. These lawyers funded his presidential campaign. (milliions) And that's the way politics works. You do for me, and I'll take care of you.

Sense? We don't need no stinking sense.

You cannot possibly be serious. Now Obama is responsible for outrageous settlements.

I spend most of the time reading all this with my hand over my mouth in amazement. I swear these threads are the only thing that can render me speechless.

Don't people realize that they're doing the PR work for the (for profit) insurance corporations......for free! That way the insurance companies can spend their money on behind the scenes lobbying.