Obama's trip to Montana a big stage!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Are you kidding!? I will give you that all past presidents have spent this country into horrible debt. No doubt about it. But I believe the people are angry more than ever before, because the CURRENT president has spent MORE than ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL the past presidents (from G. Washington and up) ever spent COMBINED in his first 6 months on the job!!!! If he spent all that in such a short time, what do we have to look forward to in the next 3 and 1/2 years? His spending sprees are VERY scary!

BTW, I personally wasn't on this LBT at the time of any discussions about Bush's presidency, so I didn't complain about his spending. I didn't vote for Obama, this is true, but to say that I want my country to fail is not true. I want my country to succeed. You can't put all republicans in the same pot. I am not bitter. But I am angry over most of his decisions so far.

You've started many threads that are opposed to Obama and his policies. Why didn't you start one about bush? Because during 2008 the unemployment was going up, the deficit was rising, the economy was tanking, gas prices were increasing, etc...But he was given a pass. Now, when Obama tries to clean up bush's mess he is criticized. Give me a break. And BTW, I am still angry about the bush administration. Obama may never be able to undo all the harm it did.

[mystro70 0]

Come on people...Why do we forget so fast. Bush took more vacation then any other president in history. Why would he want to eat beef (yuk)? I wish america would get over his skin color because at the end of the day that the only compliant you all have against the man. FYI by the way in the last 8 months I been on 8 vacation I'm doing my best to stimulate the economy

[pattygreen 5]

He has promised that he will not approve any health care bill that we cannot pay for.

I don't know which part of that sentence is funnier: The "He has promised" part or the "bill we can't pay for" part. Just about every promise he has made in his campaign has been broken, and there isn't a program out there that the government began that they once felt they could afford that hasn't gone bankrupt, or is about to, or is being paid for by robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[pattygreen 5]

{Quote}You've started many threads that are opposed to Obama and his policies. Why didn't you start one about bush?

Because I believe that any man who talks to God on a daily basis and asks him for guidance and asks him to direct his path in all he does on a daily basis is doing what he should be. Any man who has been born spiritually and has accepted Christ as his Savior, is in my opinion, better equipt to run this Nation than someone who doesn't have the Holy Spirit living within him to direct him. And even though there are those who may feel he didn't do things in this country the way he should have, just knowing this one truth about him is enough for me. Obama is the first and only president to publicly proclaim from the WH that this is not a "Christian Nation". Well, I beg to differ. This IS a Christian Nation and it is because of our Founding Father's and the God that they served that we are the most Blessed Nation in the world. The scripture teaches "I will Bless those who believe in me."

[Cleo's Mom 257]

{Quote}You've started many threads that are opposed to Obama and his policies. Why didn't you start one about bush?

Because I believe that any man who talks to God on a daily basis and asks him for guidance and asks him to direct his path in all he does on a daily basis is doing what he should be. Any man who has been born spiritually and has accepted Christ as his Savior, is in my opinion, better equipt to run this Nation than someone who doesn't have the Holy Spirit living within him to direct him. And even though there are those who may feel he didn't do things in this country the way he should have, just knowing this one truth about him is enough for me. Obama is the first and only president to publicly proclaim from the WH that this is not a "Christian Nation". Well, I beg to differ. This IS a Christian Nation and it is because of our Founding Father's and the God that they served that we are the most Blessed Nation in the world. The scripture teaches "I will Bless those who believe in me."

This is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. First of all, let's just assume for a minute that bush was a spiritual man who "talked to God". I would much rather have the brains of Obama running this country than some dumb ass like bush who claims to get his orders from God. That kind of statement in unprovable not to mention self-serving. bush really got his orders from cheney and rumsfeld but then he might have thought they were god, I think cheney thinks he is.

Secondly, Obama said that this nation is not JUST a christian nation. Do you disagree with that? Because it's a fact. There are many religions practiced here and THAT is what our founding fathers wanted. A country where one is free to practice their religion free from persecution. The fact that they were christians when they founded this country is irrelevant to this point.

[pattygreen 5]

This is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. First of all, let's just assume for a minute that bush was a spiritual man who "talked to God". I would much rather have the brains of Obama running this country than some dumb ass like bush who claims to get his orders from God. That kind of statement in unprovable not to mention self-serving. bush really got his orders from cheney and rumsfeld but then he might have thought they were god, I think cheney thinks he is.

Secondly, Obama said that this nation is not JUST a christian nation. Do you disagree with that? Because it's a fact. There are many religions practiced here and THAT is what our founding fathers wanted. A country where one is free to practice their religion free from persecution. The fact that they were christians when they founded this country is irrelevant to this point.

I don't care if you think it's BS or not. It's the truth. Obama said, and I quote, "This is not a Christian nation." He didn't say "This not JUST a Christian nation." And the reason that you would much rather have someone with the brains of Obama than with someone who talks with God is because you don't have the spiritual enlightenment or the wisdom to understand how important it really is to have a relationship with the one who created you. If you did, you would understand that this countries blessings come directly from Him and it is because of our history and the reasons behind why this country was formed that God honors. (The wisdom of man is foolishness in God's eyes.) He said so.

BTW, I never said he got his orders from God. I'm sure he made his share of mistakes. Christians are not perfect. But, God honors his children who put their faith in him and He blesses the work of those who are his. On the other hand, he dishonors those who don't put their faith in him and he does not bless the work of those who disregard what he has to say to mankind.

[Unforgettable 0]

I don't care if you think it's BS or not. It's the truth. Obama said, and I quote, "This is not a Christian nation." He didn't say "This not JUST a Christian nation." And the reason that you would much rather have someone with the brains of Obama than with someone who talks with God is because you don't have the spiritual enlightenment or the wisdom to understand how important it really is to have a relationship with the one who created you. If you did, you would understand that this countries blessings come directly from Him and it is because of our history and the reasons behind why this country was formed that God honors. (The wisdom of man is foolishness in God's eyes.) He said so.

BTW, I never said he got his orders from God. I'm sure he made his share of mistakes. Christians are not perfect. But, God honors his children who put their faith in him and He blesses the work of those who are his. On the other hand, he dishonors those who don't put their faith in him and he does not bless the work of those who disregard what he has to say to mankind.

The fact that it seems a big part of your problem is based on your own religious views just seems ignorant. As a non-Christian myself, I am deeply saddened to hear statements like yours. I will never claim to know the bible or be able to quote scriptures, but I would hope it doesn't teach you to not accept someone because of different beliefs. To think that someone is thought of as less-than just because they don't follow the same belief as you, but may be a better person on the inside, just disgusts me. I would hope that I would be judged by my kindness, integrity, honesty and loyalty rather than what religion I am. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and I respect that, but for some reason you can't. You can be Christian all you want, but a person with a good heart is a person with a good heart regardless of what religious label you want to put on it.

For the record, he said "Whatever we once were, we're no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers" and I agree.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Unforgettable

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I don't care if you think it's BS or not. It's the truth. Obama said, and I quote, "This is not a Christian nation." He didn't say "This not JUST a Christian nation." And the reason that you would much rather have someone with the brains of Obama than with someone who talks with God is because you don't have the spiritual enlightenment or the wisdom to understand how important it really is to have a relationship with the one who created you. If you did, you would understand that this countries blessings come directly from Him and it is because of our history and the reasons behind why this country was formed that God honors. (The wisdom of man is foolishness in God's eyes.) He said so.

BTW, I never said he got his orders from God. I'm sure he made his share of mistakes. Christians are not perfect. But, God honors his children who put their faith in him and He blesses the work of those who are his. On the other hand, he dishonors those who don't put their faith in him and he does not bless the work of those who disregard what he has to say to mankind.

You're wrong and I'm right about what Obama said and this video proves it:

Obama "not just a Christian nation" // Current

bush said God told him to go into Iraq. Sounds like getting orders from God to me.

And who do you think you are to presume what my spiritual enlightenment is? You have no idea about my relationship to religion or God. Or what I believe or don't believe.

There are plenty of spiritual "leaders" in this country. People who profess all kinds of religion and beliefs. Plenty of places of worship, too. I don't need my government leaders to wear their religious beliefs on their sleeves, so to speak. They can practice their religion in private and get on with the business they were elected to do - and that wasn't to promote any specific religion.

[BJean 16]

It sounds like fundamentalists think that because Obama made a statement that is indeed true about the U.S., that the U.S. is not just an exclusively Christian nation, it means that Obama is not a Christian. I am quite certain that President Obama and his family are good Christian people.

Fundamentalists have a problem with the fact that President Obama cares about all of the citizens of the United States. He doesn't discrminate against people of other religions and ethnic and cultural backgrounds. Fundamentalist right wing extremists do discrminate against anyone who believes differently than they do, as was demonstrated by the actions of fundamentalist Christians, Cheney and Bush. And as demonstrated by the fundamentalist who not too long ago murdered the "abortion doctor" in his church.

When one decides that their beliefs are the only truth, and the only acceptable beliefs to God, that is all that matters. Nothing else is important.

It's a frightning dogma. Thank goodness that all Christians aren't so exclusionary and distainful toward people of other religions and toward non-religious people. If they had been throughout America's history, this country would not have been able to become the wonderful country that it has. They believe that their brand of Christianity is what made this country great, but they are very wrong. Their brand of Christianity has caused pain and suffering throughout the ages and it continues to cause division within our country.

[KartMan 58]

I don't care if you think it's BS or not. It's the truth. Obama said, and I quote, "This is not a Christian nation." He didn't say "This not JUST a Christian nation."

You know what Patty? I don’t care if he did say it THAT way, in fact – I wish he did, I say that because it is in fact a true statement. America is NOT a Christian country, I know you choose not to believe it – but it is in fact a reality that you should understand and come to grips with. America is a Secular Democracy not a Christian Nation as you would prefer. We are in fact a country of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, countless other religions, oh and wait for it… unbelievers. The beauty of our country is that we are not defined by a single religion or race, but a rich melting pot of faiths, races, cultures and ideas.

Having said all that, I am guessing you are wrong in your quote of Obama though. You are probably misquoting him, taking him out of context, or he may have just misspoke (would you mind citing a reference to his actual quote?). The reason I say that is twofold; first Obama is religious himself, second I think he is far too politically astute to have said it in that way.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Kartman - if you'll click on the link in my above post, you will see how wrong PG is.

[BJean 16]

That was what I was going to say... watch Cleo'sMom's link.

But I'm open-minded. I'm still waiting for pattyg to post her link proving that she knows what she's talking about.

[pattygreen 5]

The fact that it seems a big part of your problem is based on your own religious views just seems ignorant. As a non-Christian myself, I am deeply saddened to hear statements like yours. I will never claim to know the bible or be able to quote scriptures, but I would hope it doesn't teach you to not accept someone because of different beliefs.

What do you mean by accepting someone? Do you mean "think less of them" because they don't believe the way you do? Of course not. The bible teaches to think of others as better than yourself.

To think that someone is thought of as less-than just because they don't follow the same belief as you, but may be a better person on the inside, just disgusts me.

I don't think of Obama as "less than" anyone. I only stated that those who do not have God's Holy Spirit living within them do not have the same wisdom as those who do. Those who know God are given his wisdom. It is spiritual wisdom. They are able to see past the here and now. This life doesn't end at death, it is eternal, and the things we do now affect it.

I would hope that I would be judged by my kindness, integrity, honesty and loyalty rather than what religion I am.

I would hope that all men judge each other by their fruits as well. Even God himself will judge us by our deeds one day.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and I respect that, but for some reason you can't.

Who said I can't?I respect your decision to choose to worship anyone you like or to choose not to believe in anything at all. That is your right, and I don't want to take it away from you any more than God does. Without free choice, we would be like robots or puppets to the one who created us. He would never be able to know who truly loves him and who doesn't.

You can be Christian all you want, but a person with a good heart is a person with a good heart regardless of what religious label you want to put on it.

For the record, he said "Whatever we once were, we're no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers" and I agree.

This country will always be a christian nation. We were founded on Christian principles and the Holy Bible, which is the word of God. We welcome all religions here to dwell in this land amongst the Christians. No one would ever be turned away for their choice of faith. But just don't forget where it all began and why. This nation is still predominantly (90%) Christian. God blesses this Nation for one reason only, and that is because we are not ashamed to call him OUR God. Be careful, for if this nation should choose to continue down this path of pushing God away from them, He will turn his back on us and our once great nation may fall and be trampled upon. He will take back his blessings from us. He may do this in his mercy, so that those who turned away from him will repent from their denial of him and seek him once again.

[pattygreen 5]

You're wrong and I'm right about what Obama said and this video proves it:

Obama "not just a Christian nation" // Current

bush said God told him to go into Iraq. Sounds like getting orders from God to me.

I've never heard him say that. But if he did say that, then I'm glad he obeyed God and did what He told him to do.

And who do you think you are to presume what my spiritual enlightenment is? You have no idea about my relationship to religion or God. Or what I believe or don't believe.

Please forgive me if I am wrong here, for I may be confusing you with someone else, but aren't you the one who posted "No." to a forum where I asked "Is God real?" If that wasn't you, I'm sorry.

There are plenty of spiritual "leaders" in this country. People who profess all kinds of religion and beliefs. Plenty of places of worship, too. I don't need my government leaders to wear their religious beliefs on their sleeves, so to speak. They can practice their religion in private and get on with the business they were elected to do - and that wasn't to promote any specific religion.

................................................

[pattygreen 5]

It sounds like fundamentalists think that because Obama made a statement that is indeed true about the U.S., that the U.S. is not just an exclusively Christian nation, it means that Obama is not a Christian. I am quite certain that President Obama and his family are good Christian people.

There are many people who claim to be Christians, but their actions prove otherwise. To be a christian, one should love all life. Obama is not against a woman killing her unborn baby. To be a Christian, one should believe God when he tells them that men having sex with men is an abomination unto him. Obama is okay with gay marriages. To be a Christian, one should not tell lies or make promises they don't keep. Obama has failed in that area. I'm not saying that he isn't saved,(going to heaven), I'm just saying if he believes in the same Jesus as most Christians do, then he isn't being very obedient to him.

Fundamentalists have a problem with the fact that President Obama cares about all of the citizens of the United States.

No, we don't.

He doesn't discrminate against people of other religions and ethnic and cultural backgrounds.

I agree. Nor do I.

Fundamentalist right wing extremists do discrminate against anyone who believes differently than they do, as was demonstrated by the actions of fundamentalist Christians, Cheney and Bush. And as demonstrated by the fundamentalist who not too long ago murdered the "abortion doctor" in his church.

Oh brother! Here we go again. You know what, I know a left winged democrat who raped and tortured 3 babies. Those dems are all alike!!! Sicko's.

When one decides that their beliefs are the only truth, and the only acceptable beliefs to God, that is all that matters. Nothing else is important.

It's a frightning dogma. Thank goodness that all Christians aren't so exclusionary and distainful toward people of other religions and toward non-religious people. If they had been throughout America's history, this country would not have been able to become the wonderful country that it has. They believe that their brand of Christianity is what made this country great, but they are very wrong. Their brand of Christianity has caused pain and suffering throughout the ages and it continues to cause division within our country.

Wrong! It is those who don't believe in the God who created them, who have spoiled our freedoms from the beginning. They are the ones who want to allow sin, yes sin, to be a part of this nation. "Let everyone do as they please, that's true freedom" "If a woman wants to have sex with another woman, let her, and if they want to raise a family, let them" "Let anyone who wants to murder their babies that aren't born yet do so" Let's make prostitution legal" "Let's legalize marajuana, too." God gave us standards to go by for our own good, not to penalize us and keep us from having fun. Christianity causes no divisions in this country, except for those who just want to do what they want to do and don't want anyone including God to tell them they can't do it! Liberals! sheesh!