Obama's trip to Montana a big stage!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

As a leader, he should be setting an example. Did you know he's been on 4 (count them) 4 vacations in 6 months! Not little ones either, like the rest of us in America have to take in this economy. He and his family have been to Paris, Moscow, Martha's Vineyard, the Grand Canyon, etc. He flys everywhere! I bet before he was president he had credit card debt that was unsustainable for his family. It wouldn't suprise me.

Of course he flies everywhere, Einstein, what would you expect him to do? Hitchhike? And his "vacations" have been small side trips as part of his presidential duties. Except for Martha's Vineyard. That was his first real vacation - for 7 days. Oh, perish the thought!!! Bush spent 490 days at his Crawford ranch clearing brush for the cameras so as to try to boost that cowboy image and accent that no one but him in his family has. How is that? And he spent another 487 days at Camp David - a presidential retreat. So that's 2.7 years on vacation. But I'm sure you didn't begrudge him that time because he was probably working hard even then by not reading memos entitled: Bin Laden Determined to Strike inside the U.S. (that during August 2001 when he was 4 weeks at Crawford). Well, we all know the consequences of that slip up.

And I think before he became president, Obama managed his credit card debt quite well, otherwise we would have heard about that from the right wing's gurus - rush and glenn. But feel free to start another internet rumor about that one. Maybe how Michelle used $150,000 of the DNC money to outfit herself during the campaign. Oh, no wait, that was Sarah Palin and the RNC. My mistake, sorry. :thumbup:

[JENNIFER7375 3]

Oh and by the way just like I'm forking over the money for my vacation the Obama's have paid for their thrip to Martha's vineyard. And with the current state of things I honestly doubt the man or his wife for that matter are getting in much relaxing. But they have a right to take their kids away to the beach for a week. Yes the economy sucks but hard working people who can still afford vacations. And Paris and Moscow were not "vacations" it's called doing his job and representing the united states in diplomatic matters.

[FailureIsntAnOption 0]

Of course he flies everywhere, Einstein, what would you expect him to do? Hitchhike? And his "vacations" have been small side trips as part of his presidential duties. Except for Martha's Vineyard. That was his first real vacation - for 7 days. Oh, perish the thought!!! Bush spent 490 days at his Crawford ranch clearing brush for the cameras so as to try to boost that cowboy image and accent that no one but him in his family has. How is that? And he spent another 487 days at Camp David - a presidential retreat. So that's 2.7 years on vacation. But I'm sure you didn't begrudge him that time because he was probably working hard even then by not reading memos entitled: Bin Laden Determined to Strike inside the U.S. (that during August 2001 when he was 4 weeks at Crawford). Well, we all know the consequences of that slip up.

And I think before he became president, Obama managed his credit card debt quite well, otherwise we would have heard about that from the right wing's gurus - rush and glenn. But feel free to start another internet rumor about that one. Maybe how Michelle used $150,000 of the DNC money to outfit herself during the campaign. Oh, no wait, that was Sarah Palin and the RNC. My mistake, sorry. :thumbup:

Holy crap! This is so well said:w00t:

[pattygreen 5]

mom, whether Bush committed wrong doings during his presidency or not is irrelevent. Every president did wrong as far as I'm concerned. I was talking about what Obama is doing. Why is it that the supporters of the things that Obama does compares him to Bush and the things he did? Let's look at Obama. He's the president NOW. Why can't you simply focus on his doings and forget about what others have done? The decisions that he makes are his. Now, we are in a recession. People everywhere are disgusted with the flow of finances that those we give our taxes to are filandering. You know, pissing away. As a leader, he should be setting an example. It angers the American people when he blows money left and right and we have to count every penny in our homes.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

mom, whether Bush committed wrong doings during his presidency or not is irrelevent. Every president did wrong as far as I'm concerned. I was talking about what Obama is doing. Why is it that the supporters of the things that Obama does compares him to Bush and the things he did? Let's look at Obama. He's the president NOW. Why can't you simply focus on his doings and forget about what others have done? The decisions that he makes are his. Now, we are in a recession. People everywhere are disgusted with the flow of finances that those we give our taxes to are filandering. You know, pissing away. As a leader, he should be setting an example. It angers the American people when he blows money left and right and we have to count every penny in our homes.

Because most of what comes from the extreme right smacks of hypocrisy. Were you on these boards, or any boards, bashing bush about his excessive vacations or spending a trillion dollars on Iraq? No. And I'd rather have the money spent here than abroad for an unnecessary war. Just like all the others, you didn't complain about spending or the deficit under bush. When asked about the huge deficit during the bush administration, cheney said: "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." And Reagan should have known - he rang up the biggest deficit (at that time) in history. Now, all the people who didn't want Obama to be elected and are still bitter are suddenly concerned about spending, deficits and images. Where was all this fiscal concern then? All this concern and anger about health care reform, spending, vacation and deficits is just a smoke screen to cover up the fact that the basis behind all of it is this:

PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT OBAMA TO BE ELECTED ARE BITTER AND ANGRY AND ARE LOOKING FOR ANYTHING TO LASH OUT ABOUT. THEY WANT OBAMA (AND THEREFORE THIS COUNTRY) TO FAIL. RUSH EVEN SAID SO. SOME SENATOR (I FORGET WHO) SAID HE WANTED THE HEALTHCARE REFORM TO FAIL BECAUSE IT WOULD BE OBAMA'S WATERLOO. THIS IS THE MENTALITY OF THE PARTY OF NO AND THE NEOCONS. IT ISN'T ABOUT CONCERN FOR THIS COUNTRY OR THEIR HEALTHCARE, IT IS BITTERNESS AND ANGER AND IT SHOWS. SO DON'T INSULT ME WITH PHONEY REASONS BEHIND ALL THIS (LIKE ALL PRESIDENTS HAVE DONE BAD THINGS...)

[KartMan 58]

mom, whether Bush committed wrong doings during his presidency or not is irrelevent. Every president did wrong as far as I'm concerned. I was talking about what Obama is doing. Why is it that the supporters of the things that Obama does compares him to Bush and the things he did? Let's look at Obama. He's the president NOW. Why can't you simply focus on his doings and forget about what others have done? The decisions that he makes are his. Now, we are in a recession. People everywhere are disgusted with the flow of finances that those we give our taxes to are filandering. You know, pissing away. As a leader, he should be setting an example. It angers the American people when he blows money left and right and we have to count every penny in our homes.

Patty,

Sometimes your arguments are baseless, other times you just don’t make sense. Mostly, form what I have seen you are just outright wrong. This one troubles me though because your choice of words is a new low even for you. You may dislike Obama and his policies, but to suggest he is anything other than a loving husband to his beautiful wife Michelle (even if by mistake) is completely uncalled for. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just have made a poor choice in words (oh, and I’ll forgive the misspelling too - because that is certainly a failing that I share with you:blushing:).

phi⋅lan⋅der –verb (used without object)

(of a man) to make love with a woman one cannot or will not marry; carry on flirtations.

[KartMan 58]

PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT OBAMA TO BE ELECTED ARE BITTER AND ANGRY AND ARE LOOKING FOR ANYTHING TO LASH OUT ABOUT. THEY WANT OBAMA (AND THEREFORE THIS COUNTRY) TO FAIL. RUSH EVEN SAID SO. SOME SENATOR (I FORGET WHO) SAID HE WANTED THE HEALTHCARE REFORM TO FAIL BECAUSE IT WOULD BE OBAMA'S WATERLOO. THIS IS THE MENTALITY OF THE PARTY OF NO AND THE NEOCONS. IT ISN'T ABOUT CONCERN FOR THIS COUNTRY OR THEIR HEALTHCARE, IT IS BITTERNESS AND ANGER AND IT SHOWS. SO DON'T INSULT ME WITH PHONEY REASONS BEHIND ALL THIS (LIKE ALL PRESIDENTS HAVE DONE BAD THINGS...)

That was Senator Jim DeMint form South Carolina.

"Senators and Congressmen will come back in September afraid to vote against the American people," DeMint predicted, adding that "this health care issue Is D-Day for freedom in America." "If we’re able to stop Obama on this it will be his Waterloo. It will break him," he said.

The sad thing is that much of the opposition to Health Care reform is not about the issue of Health Care at all, but a backhanded way in which to defeat Obama in order for the Right to get back in power after having their shorts handed to them in the last election. Unfortunately, it is the American people that will suffer for this plot in the long run.

[BJean 16]

I agree that the "letter" and pattyg's comments are inane and loaded with hyprocrisy. I was so grossed out all I could do was meet it with sarcasm.

I am overwhelmed by the great responses that so many of you have made. I usually find myself alone in a debate such as this - except that kartman jumps in when he can't stand it anymore. And he always says it so much better than I. You have all made relevant points: cleo'smom, kartman, jennifer and others - you know who you are, and I sure do appreciate what you've posted!

I especiallly agree with the fact that it appears that the right wing doesn't really care one whit about our government helping to provide us all with a better healthcare system. All they seem to be desperate to accomplish is to bash Obama and cloud the issues. These days they don't seem to be fooling so many people with their scary words and deeds. Nearly everybody is beginning to see them for what they are and realizing what they're up to.

All this talk about tort reform being the answer is not correct either. We have to be very careful about tort reform. We shouldn't penalize people who have been maimed or killed by doctors who are guilty of malpractice by limiting their lawsuits. That's getting the whole thing bassackwards.

The lawsuits can be handled better in our courts and frivilous lawsuits should be thrown out post haste, but don't let them fool you - tort reform isn't JUST about lawyers getting money!

[BJean 16]

Tort reform is a lot about insurance companies being able to keep more money. We shouldn't sacrifice individuals' rights in preference of the insurance companies bottom line.

[KartMan 58]

I am of the belief that Tort Reform and all other reform should be an ongoing process – I’m for constant improvement. Just as with our Health Care system, our legal system is need of reform too, but Tort Reform a bit of a Red Herring I think. I think it is a small piece of a much bigger pie. Even if we “fixed” it the way that the Right wants it fixed, Tort Reform only saves and estimated 5-10% in the total cost of Health Care. I am no legal scholar so I don’t know all the details in this area, but I have heard enough to make me believe that there are some legitimate concerns that should be addressed with reform – but it is just a small component, not the whole answer.

[pattygreen 5]

Because most of what comes from the extreme right smacks of hypocrisy. Were you on these boards, or any boards, bashing bush about his excessive vacations or spending a trillion dollars on Iraq? No. And I'd rather have the money spent here than abroad for an unnecessary war. Just like all the others, you didn't complain about spending or the deficit under bush. When asked about the huge deficit during the bush administration, cheney said: "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." And Reagan should have known - he rang up the biggest deficit (at that time) in history. Now, all the people who didn't want Obama to be elected and are still bitter are suddenly concerned about spending, deficits and images. Where was all this fiscal concern then? All this concern and anger about health care reform, spending, vacation and deficits is just a smoke screen to cover up the fact that the basis behind all of it is this:

PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT OBAMA TO BE ELECTED ARE BITTER AND ANGRY AND ARE LOOKING FOR ANYTHING TO LASH OUT ABOUT. THEY WANT OBAMA (AND THEREFORE THIS COUNTRY) TO FAIL. RUSH EVEN SAID SO. SOME SENATOR (I FORGET WHO) SAID HE WANTED THE HEALTHCARE REFORM TO FAIL BECAUSE IT WOULD BE OBAMA'S WATERLOO. THIS IS THE MENTALITY OF THE PARTY OF NO AND THE NEOCONS. IT ISN'T ABOUT CONCERN FOR THIS COUNTRY OR THEIR HEALTHCARE, IT IS BITTERNESS AND ANGER AND IT SHOWS. SO DON'T INSULT ME WITH PHONEY REASONS BEHIND ALL THIS (LIKE ALL PRESIDENTS HAVE DONE BAD THINGS...)

Are you kidding!? I will give you that all past presidents have spent this country into horrible debt. No doubt about it. But I believe the people are angry more than ever before, because the CURRENT president has spent MORE than ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL the past presidents (from G. Washington and up) ever spent COMBINED in his first 6 months on the job!!!! If he spent all that in such a short time, what do we have to look forward to in the next 3 and 1/2 years? His spending sprees are VERY scary!

BTW, I personally wasn't on this LBT at the time of any discussions about Bush's presidency, so I didn't complain about his spending. I didn't vote for Obama, this is true, but to say that I want my country to fail is not true. I want my country to succeed. You can't put all republicans in the same pot. I am not bitter. But I am angry over most of his decisions so far.

[BJean 16]

kartman I agree that the way things have happened in the past regarding malpractice lawsuits got way out of control. Just like some facets of capitalism. Greed has a way of doing that to folks.

But some of the people who are pro-tort reform would like nothing better than to make it illegal for people to sue for malpractice at all. It's a basic legal right - to hold someone accountable for gross negligence. And it needs to be said that is certainly not a panacea for providing better health care to the general public. It would primarily solve problems that the insurance companies have with enormous payouts for the doctors they insure who are charlatans. ("Quack" sounds so unsophisticated for people who have been through the educational process and yet still cannot practice safe medicine.)

[BJean 16]

patty, I do not paint all Republicans with the same right wing extremist brush, but I do paint all right wing extremists with the same fanatical brush.

I can understand your dismay with the decisions that President Obama has taken to undo some of the horrible policies that the previous administration put into effect that nearly put our country in the financial crapper. (The administration and the Republican dominated Congress, that is.) But President Obama is a learned man and he has been smart enough to glean every bit of wisdom available from the financial wizards in America before making his decisions. He knows that it may not work. He also knows that it has just as good a chance of pulling us out as the actions that earlier presidents used during recessions and depressions.

I understand why you're freaking out. But calm down. If he didn't take some of the actions he's taken, things could have gotten much, much worse. He has promised that he will not approve any health care bill that we cannot pay for.

And as for some of the money he's spent, like the cash for clunkers deal, he has high hopes that it will help stimulate the economy by getting some new cars sold. He may use similar plans to help revitalize other areas of the brain-dead economy. We should all hope that it works. And if it does, there will eventually be an economy boom - a rebound, if you will - that will make you whiners eat your words. Then once everything is booming again, if history serves us well, you'll put another Republican in office who will pull the same crap all over again and you'll be a deliriously happy camper. Patience, my dear.

[FailureIsntAnOption 0]

I believe the country is in the financial mess it is in because Bush for so long refused to believe this country is in a recession. I still remember his denial of the economic condition of this country back during the last year or two of his presidency. He was the most "out of touch" president this country has ever seen. He was vacationing much of the time that all of us American's were struggling to make ends meet.

I feel sorry for Obama. He stepped into a huge mess that was created by the prior administration and is now under scrutiny by conservatives who would like nothing more then to see him fail and seem to not remember that it was Bush who got us all in this mess in the first place.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I agree that the "letter" and pattyg's comments are inane and loaded with hyprocrisy. I was so grossed out all I could do was meet it with sarcasm.

I am overwhelmed by the great responses that so many of you have made. I usually find myself alone in a debate such as this - except that kartman jumps in when he can't stand it anymore. And he always says it so much better than I. You have all made relevant points: cleo'smom, kartman, jennifer and others - you know who you are, and I sure do appreciate what you've posted!

I especiallly agree with the fact that it appears that the right wing doesn't really care one whit about our government helping to provide us all with a better healthcare system. All they seem to be desperate to accomplish is to bash Obama and cloud the issues. These days they don't seem to be fooling so many people with their scary words and deeds. Nearly everybody is beginning to see them for what they are and realizing what they're up to.

All this talk about tort reform being the answer is not correct either. We have to be very careful about tort reform. We shouldn't penalize people who have been maimed or killed by doctors who are guilty of malpractice by limiting their lawsuits. That's getting the whole thing bassackwards.

The lawsuits can be handled better in our courts and frivilous lawsuits should be thrown out post haste, but don't let them fool you - tort reform isn't JUST about lawyers getting money!

Thanks, BJean. I don't spend a lot of time on here because it is so futile sometimes. But I think because of all the coverage that Ted Kennedy's death has gotten with video of his many passionate speeches and those who have eulogized him made me remember more acutely the reasons I am a liberal democrat and not ashamed to say so. The right, who has never given the least among us one thing, has demonized the word liberal. I reject that and am proud to say it. Ted Kennedy supported universal healthcare all his political life and was a champion for the rights of people who didn't have a voice unlike those whose interests were represented by well paid lobbyists. He championed for children's health and education, the disabled, the minimum wage for workers, the family leave act and so much more. So, like many others, I will continue his battles in my small, humble way.

I am president of my local democratic club and I do what I can to advance the democratic agenda. Being on this site is just a small part. Thanks again.