Odds of long-term success

[Elisabethsew 50]

Please take the following post in the friendliest of contexts, please...

I don't think anyone reading this would take it that way.

I left for a couple days and then returned cooled down and re-read much of the thread.

I then realized why I was so put off by one or more of the posters. Despite using a good measure of reason and facts they found it difficult at times to bring any people to their way of thinking that did not already agree with them.

I think people in this thread are looking for comparisons in weight loss among the various types of weight loss surgery. It's natural for people to be passionate about their choice (s). Speaking for me only, I feel a need to PM or post to people who are suffering from the same symptoms I did with the band. They need to know that you CAN follow ALL the rules and still have complications that THEY did NOT cause.

Here is some good friendly advise I thought I would share so as to assist certain posters with their interpersonal skills...

Advise or advice?

First, as Dale Carnegie once asserted something like: if you want to win someone over to your way of thinking avoid criticizing, don't be condescending, and compliment sincerely when you can.

Most people relate better to, "You can catch more flies with honey..."

Much of the wordy posts were well constructed. However, there are several kinds of rhetoric you might want to stay away from...

For example, one of you claimed that...

However, sprinkled in with your facts, figures, and stats, I found, lo and behold things other than just facts and figures.

Here are some recent examples from their posts...

You might not have realized that this was condescending if the person was a noob, but if they were not then even more so.

The most charitable thing a person can say about this is that it is "flippant" and, again, condescending. Psychologists, Psychs, along with their "peer reviewed" studies indicates this type of comment makes your interlocutor entrench in their own position under these circumstances and will not be brought to your way of thinking. Avoid this kind of remark.

You make note of your high IQ. You'll lose a lot of people with the above paragraph. I find the smartest people have no need to prove it.

Presumptuous, unless you are in the mind of the poster you cannot know if they are being honest or not.

Presumptuous and condescending, my father's a doctor, my brother's a doctor, my sister is an RN and a head nurse, my niece is an PA, and have 2 best friends that are doctors. I'm a businessman. I know that, while doctors tend to make lousy businessmen, they know how to make money whatever procedure they perform. Moreover, I have a 146 IQ and am no idiot myself and RNs, PAs, and MDs are not mystifying to me and I don't consider them high priests but rather highly skilled professionals. I've known some health care professionals that are opposed to ANY kind of bariatric surgery. Should we take away their license? Your health care title can only take you so far. By the way, some nurses around here seem to have an unhealthy opinion of most doctors. I guess that's normal, though.

If you were a health care professional and practiced for decades in acute care, you'd find out real fast that most MDs rely on RNs, NPs, PAs, etc., to get them out of binds, guide them, and fix mistakes. For that reason, current practice is always multi-disciplinary. Ever wonder why RNs tell people to stay as far away from a hospital as they can in July and August? Medical student on 6/30 and MD on 7/1. Enough said.

Now maybe this poster is an English major too and was simply applying more "facts and figures", but I'd rather think they were just making a good old fashioned "dig" at the other person. It might be a "fact" but it is not a fact related to bariatric surgery as far as I know.

Well, isn't this ironic. The poster of the highest statistical and "stick to facts and figures" order (and I mean that) has just made a statement based entirely on personal anecdotal experience and not backed up by "peer reviewed" studies. (chuckle)

I fail to see the point or the humor. Research and personal experience compliment one another.

These all seem more like "flaming" than "facts and figures".

It might have felt good to make these statements, but they don't convince people.

The bottom line point to all this is if someone does not like you, they will always be inclined to disagree with you no matter how much "sense" you believe you make. It's simple human nature.

I consider myself open minded, but I am not a masochist. I hope everyone out there with the "love-sleeve" considers some of my points.

THAT remark negates everything you said in your post.

Best wishes to all...

And to you too.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Just weighing in here...

Here are my statistics:

The band got me skinny.

I didn't know about the sleeve.

I have a sleeve-fund set up for **when** my band goes south.

I will ride my band till the wheels fall off.

I never know if/when I will be able to eat on a day to day basis. IF I can eat. I CAN EAT, if I can't, I can't. It is a PITA.

My band is my best friend and my worst enemy.

I encourage everyone do to the research into a sleeve.

I completely and totally understand the frustrations you are experiencing. I'm so sorry you are going through this. When a band goes bad it affects every single area of your life.

If you are having major band problems I wouldn't wait long to have it removed. I waited too long and have permanent problems because of it.

If you slip and an unfill doesn't do the trick they won't be able to do a revision in one surgery, two surgeries is much more expensive. If you erode... again, two surgeries. Then the weight gain while you wait for surgery #2 for revision.

If you are self pay don't wait, get it done as soon as financially possible.

[Melissa Cotton 7]

Hey Luluc,

I kinda feel the same way as you.I'm 9 months out so maybe I'm jumping the gun but a good friend of mine did gastric bypass the same time as me.And when I compare our experiences & weightloss results she has had it so much easier than me.I too feel like I am working so hard to get half the result that she isn't even having to work for!! I really wish I would have looked into the sleeve more because it was an option for me I just got a little scared of them removing a good part of your stomach.But this back & forth fill game can be a nightmare!! Oh well I guess you just make the best of it!!:biggrin:

I think this is a great example of how different surgeries can be right for different people. My roommate had gastric bypass six months before I was banded. Today, we have lost an equal % our goal weight. I started at 280 and am at 185. She started at 230 and is at 167. We both have a goal weight of 140. I am happy with my choice, I haven't had any complications, yet. She struggles with acid reflux. But she eats crap all the time, Oreos, chips, and bags of chocolates. I don't eat simple carbs or refined sugar. If i ate like her, I don't think I would be successful. She picked the right option for her and I picked the right option for me!

Edited August 20, 2009 by Lemmings4u
opps typos :(

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I think this is a great example of how different surgeries can be right for different people. My roommate had gastric bypass six months before I was banded. Today, we have lost an equal % our goal weight. I started at 280 and am at 185. She started at 230 and is at 167. We both have a goal weight of 140. I am happy with my choice, I haven't had any complications, yet. She struggles with acid reflux. But she eats crap all the time, Oreos, chips, and bags of chocolates. I don't eat simple carbs or refined sugar. If i ate like her, I don't think I would be successful. She picked the right option for her and I picked the right option for me!

I am not sure your friend picked the right surgery type for her. In time she will stop malabsorbing to the same degree she is now and she will begin to regain. (

This is the position I would have been in if I had bypass the first time around. I would have been your friend. I would have eaten crap and let my surgery type do the work for me and at this stage in the game I'd be regaining.

I feel for your friend, if the band did anything for me it taught me that I can live without white carbs such as flour and sugar.

Good job on your weight loss!

[Albacheeser 0]

And to you too.

Your comprehensive remarks on my post would indicate two things:

1) My perceived condescension did not go over too well with you and at least one other. (actually I was being sincere, but I guess everyone is used to dripping sarcasm around here.)

2) My assertion regarding too much condescension was, in your post, actually proven true by your response.

If what you said of me is true, than it is also must be true of some of your colleague posters here and validates what I said. I never criticized, on the contrary I complimented, any research and facts. I only had a problem with the demeaning tone. As a moderator, you have chastised me instead of those that are demeaning around here as a matter of course. Just my luck, I guess.

Still, I don't believe anyone here can deny that every poster here is biased toward what they had done and away from what they did not do. That's natural but should be considered when evaluating a post no matter the "facts" they throw around, regardless of what procedure(s) one has had done.

I bid all of you peace and skins of greater thickness.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Albacheeser

[ThinknHealthy 0]

Wow!!! This is all way to controversial and complicated for me to even read!!

All I know is I love my band. I work it well. Best decision that I have made for myself. It is a personal decision and I would never want to argue another's decision to do something different. I feel we're all going to the same destination. We may take different paths to get there but we should always be encouraging to all those on this journey.

I do applaud those who are so passionate about their opinions. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. This is a place we should be able to express those opinions freely where people can read them, or not ... agree with us, or not.

Poor Blosmtx ... I wonder if she ever had her surgery.

[greytz 4]

Albacheeser, let this go already. This thread was about someone who was trying to make a decision about WLS and was scared. It has turned into nothing but an argument. This forum is supposed to be about support and help. Not saying there won't be some to and for but this is getting stupid. Stop handing out your ridiculous scarcasm. You accused Wasa of attacking everyone but you are doing the very same thing. Enough.

[nurse09 0]

You're doing VERY well so take pride in your accomplishments. Any weight loss takes work. With the sleeve, you have a MUCH smaller stomach and the hunger hormone is severely reduced. However, if you don't stick to 3 healthy meals a day and an occasional snack but rather graze on food all day, you won't lose.

Congratulations on your loss.

Thank you very much for saying that Elisabeth! I noticed you have the sleeve now, but you still take the time to tell others of the cons of it. There are others on here with the sleeve that refuse to or just leave this info out.

I would also like to add a few more things to consider about the sleeve.

1.) you can stretch your pouch out if you start eating too much.

2.) People with higher BMI's to start have less success with the sleeve ( and with the lap band as well).

3.) If you start with a higher BMI it is more likely than not that you will have to have another surgery after the sleeve stops working.

I guess the point of all this is to let others know that there are pros and cons to both surgeries, but i don't see much of the cons presented about the sleeve.

So i only think it is fair that people are informed of these cons if considering the sleeve.

Don't get me wrong i am not for the band or the sleeve. I have the band and it is working ok for me. Have I made my goal yet? NO not by along shot, but i will. I know even if i had another surgery that at the end of the day it is still up to me to do the work.

Also i noticed the OP compared themselves to someone else. Well it doesn't matter what WLS you have. You should never compare yourself to anyone else's success or failure, because no matter what we will all lose differently.

I know people that have had the bypass surgery, made goal, and have now gained back.

This is the chance you take with ALL of the surgeries, so please don't try to fool yourself into believing any other way( or let people on here lead you to believe that one is the "miracle cure") because that is just not true.

I think ( just my opinion) that we should all just support one another no matter what WLS we have had, because we all started with the same problem Obesity.

So good luck to all in their life long weight loss journey!

[Albacheeser 0]

Albacheeser, let this go already. This thread was about someone who was trying to make a decision about WLS and was scared. It has turned into nothing but an argument. This forum is supposed to be about support and help. Not saying there won't be some to and for but this is getting stupid. Stop handing out your ridiculous scarcasm. You accused Wasa of attacking everyone but you are doing the very same thing. Enough.

Unbelievable.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I would also like to add a few more things to consider about the sleeve.

1.) you can stretch your pouch out if you start eating too much.

No, we can't stretch out our pouch because we do not have a pouch. Bands and bypass have pouches, sleeves and DS have stomachs.

When 60-85% of your stomach is removed there isn't much left to stretch. The elastic portion is removed, what is left is the muscular portion. It does stretch but this is a known factor at the time of surgery. Coming out of surgery your stomach is this size of a cigar, or your finger. Over the next 4-6 months it stretches to the size of a small banana. That's the size we want it. I am 14 months post op and I can't eat anymore than I could at six months.

2.) People with higher BMI's to start have less success with the sleeve ( and with the lap band as well).

3.) If you start with a higher BMI it is more likely than not that you will have to have another surgery after the sleeve stops working.

This is going to be true with any restrictive only procedure. There are some people that need malabsorption with their restriction. It's the nature of the beast.

I guess the point of all this is to let others know that there are pros and cons to both surgeries, but i don't see much of the cons presented about the sleeve.

So i only think it is fair that people are informed of these cons if considering the sleeve.

Quite frankly, there are not many. It's YOUR stomach just smaller.

One can develop a stricture, it happens to less than 1% of the sleeved population and usually happens within weeks post op. It's an easy out patient fix if it were to happen.

One can develop a B12 deficiency due to lack of I.F. If that happens SL B12 is the fix.

Some people have reflux for a few weeks following surgery, a PPI deals with this quite well.

Don't get me wrong i am not for the band or the sleeve.

But you wrote the sleeve was proven ineffective.

I know people that have had the bypass surgery, made goal, and have now gained back.

That happens with EVERY surgery type. This is a life long battle we all face daily.

My whole point here is that we all have to find the right WLS type for each of us and we need to get that surgery. If people don't know other surgery types exist then they may not be choosing what is right for them.

Above all we need to provide solid information so people have an idea of what to research to find what is best for them.

Edited August 21, 2009 by WASaBubbleButt

[Elisabethsew 50]

no, we can't stretch out our pouch because we do not have a pouch. Bands and bypass have pouches, sleeves and ds have stomachs.

When 60-85% of your stomach is removed there isn't much left to stretch. The elastic portion is removed, what is left is the muscular portion. It does stretch but this is a known factor at the time of surgery. Coming out of surgery your stomach is this size of a cigar, or your finger. Over the next 4-6 months it stretches to the size of a small banana. That's the size we want it. I am 14 months post op and i can't eat anymore than i could at six months.

This is going to be true with any restrictive only procedure. There are some people that need malabsorption with their restriction. It's the nature of the beast.

Quite frankly, there are not many. It's your stomach just smaller.

One can develop a stricture, it happens to less than 1% of the sleeved population and usually happens within weeks post op. It's an easy out patient fix if it were to happen.

One can develop a B12 deficiency due to lack of i.f. If that happens sl b12 is the fix.

Some people have reflux for a few weeks following surgery, a ppi deals with this quite well.

But you wrote the sleeve was proven ineffective.

That happens with every surgery type. This is a life long battle we all face daily.

My whole point here is that we all have to find the right wls type for each of us and we need to get that surgery. If people don't know other surgery types exist then they may not be choosing what is right for them.

Above all we need to provide solid information so people have an idea of what to research to find what is best for them.

amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WaistBand 0]

What a discouraging, disgusting thread. Blah.

[Elisabethsew 50]

What a discouraging, disgusting thread. Blah.

Sharing good and bad experiences is what people come here for. Debate is encouraged. Of course, you're free to have an opinion which I see is not in agreement with others posting on this thread. Have a good day.

[WaistBand 0]

I have no problem with debate and disagreement. I am thrilled whenever there is peer-reviewed information shared. Statistics excite me. I love seeing fellow RNs sharing accurate health-related information.

I just find the snarkiness and condescension to be kind of contrary to the stated purpose of the board. I would think it more productive to share information without the digs.

You have a lovely evening, too :thumbup:

[WaistBand 0]

What a discouraging, disgusting thread. Blah.