Odds of long-term success

[nurse09 0]

Ok Wasabubblebutt i am here now so you can stop leaving me messages private or otherwise!

Now i would like to say that what i said about the lap band being the most effective was incorrect and i misspoke on that. i should not have said that it is the most effective, because that is not accurate to say. that is not what i meant to say. what i meant to say is that the band can be successful if used properly. just as with the sleeve or any other WLS. All of the surgeries have risk and complications and all of them have shown people with success and failure. At the end of the day it is up to the person that has the surgery( which ever that one may be) to do the work to maintain any weight they will lose. so i would like to apologize to anyone that has read my post if i lead you to believe that the band is the most effective on the market, because i can't say that for sure. i can only say that i am happy i chose the band and wouldn't go any other way.

next i would like to say i am happy you made your goal and hope you are able to maintain it through life. your question to me was what have I lost and where am I at with the band. the answer is in my blog ( as you have read already) but i will tell you once again. I have lost 54lbs ( not 59lbs as you stated in a earlier post) and have gained 7lbs back. i am not proud of this fact, because i had the surgery to lose weight not gain it. But never the less i have gained some back. I have gained some back because I had not been to the doctor in 5 months and did not keep up with my fills as i should have( which anyone who knows about how the band works knows that is a vital key in your success) so no wasabubblebutt i have not followed my doctors instructions entirely, but that is why i came on this forum for SUPPORT. I guess that is why most people do come on here. Not to debate about what surgery they should or should not have. you seem to think i was referring to you in the previous post when i was talking about how to maintain success with the band. i was not talking to you nor was i trying to lecture you on weight loss. i was simply stating facts about how people that are obese or over weight think. i know because not only am i one of those people i know several people who are. now you stated to me that YOU made your goal and that is great, but i am not you. i am 16 months out and i have not made my goal. Everyone is different no matter what weight loss surgery you get. so i really don't know what you were trying to prove or get to by making that statement. i started out at a pretty high weight and that does make a difference on if you succeed with the band or not. people that are morbidly obese ( as i am) may not be as successful with the band. i knew that before having the surgery but decided to do it anyway.

the point is we can go back in forth until the cows come home, but it will not make you or i right or wrong either way. you have your opinion and i have mine. you can show studies and i can show studies but at the end of the day thats all they are. what matters is what decison each person makes for themselves and what works best for that person.

now i have noticed that you seem to have to be right and if you debate with alot of people on here. You also say you are a nurse and have questioned my professionalism. you were right about one thing as a nurse we should not try and mislead anyone. we should present all the facts and we should show both sides not just the side we want, but yet you are on here trying to convince everyone that the sleeve is the best thing for them. You also told the person that made the original post that they should go with the sleeve over the lap band. well as a nurse you should know better. you would know as a nurse that it is not in our scope of practice to give medical advice( and telling someone or advising them to do something is giving medical advice) it is actually unlawful and if that person takes your advice and something happens. that person can come back and sue you, because you are not a doctor and you should not tell anyone what to do or not do as far as medical things go. you can try to educate them as us nurses do, but never tell them to go one way or the other. so from one nurse to another i would suggest you watch what advice you give, because it could come back to bite you in the butt. BTW if you do not believe i am a nurse then feel free to call the Iowa Board of Nursing and they can confirm it for me.

Also i never once told anyone in my post to have the lapband done or not done. i should have just been more clear that it is all just my opinion.

oh yes you also posted a website for me to go read about your "research statistics" well i have to laugh because they only compared a few hundred people and if you think that is accurate then i guess that is what you believe.

The bottom is that you will believe what you believe and i will believe what i believe. Does it make you right? NO! Does it make me right? NO! It just makes two people with their own opinions. You stated you made goal with the lap band so you know how it works. Well i guess my question to you is if that is true why did you switch to the sleeve?

my opinion( and only my opinion) i think you may want to find something else to do with your time that is more productive then to come on a forum and try and debate with the people that do not agree with you. Debating is fine but you try and make people believe what you believe and that is not fine. the guy in the other post is correct in saying if you believe so strongly in the sleeve then you should stay on that site and leave this one alone. You have posted something on almost everyones comment as if you are all knowing and no one is all knowing dear. I think you may want to ask yourself why after losing all your weight you still are not happy. i mean( and just my opinion) someone that is happy surely wouldn't spend so much time on the computer arguing with everyone on it. would they? i would think not, but that is just me.

so i guess the bottom line is i am not going to and will continue to go back and forth with you. i came on here to talk to people about their success or failures with the lap band and vice versus. i also came on here for support and hope that i can help someone as well. i did not come on here to argue with anyone. i just believe that is counter productive and will not do it any more.

so once again congrats on your success of weight loss and i do wish you the best for the future.

Edited August 15, 2009 by nurse09

[nickie456 0]

I am a prime example, My first nine months after being banded I was here everyday reading and posting. Lost all the weight I needed to, and I stoped coming here. 4 years later i'm back because I gained the weight back. Not because the band wasn't working, becasue I wasn't doing what I needed to do.

[nurse09 0]

oh yes one more thing! i don't feel as if i have failed or the band has failed me because i am not at goal already. my doctor told me before having the surgery that it may take longer then 2 years to get to my goal. so i knew all of that going in. i do plan on making it to my goal but if for some reason i do not. i know it is because I did not do everything I could. NOT because of the band.

[nurse09 0]

I am a prime example, My first nine months after being banded I was here everyday reading and posting. Lost all the weight I needed to, and I stoped coming here. 4 years later i'm back because I gained the weight back. Not because the band wasn't working, becasue I wasn't doing what I needed to do.

I am so sorry to hear about your set back, but i am happy to hear you still haven't given up. Just remember anything worth having isn't easy to get. i too have gain some weight back, but i haven't even made it to goal. so if you can make it once. you surely can do it again. keep the faith and good luck in your weight loss struggle. remember you are not alone!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Ok Wasabubblebutt i am here now so you can stop leaving me messages private or otherwise!

Now i would like to say that what i said about the lap band being the most effective was incorrect and i misspoke on that. i should not have said that it is the most effective, because that is not accurate to say. that is not what i meant to say. what i meant to say is that the band can be successful if used properly. just as with the sleeve or any other WLS. All of the surgeries have risk and complications and all of them have shown people with success and failure. At the end of the day it is up to the person that has the surgery( which ever that one may be) to do the work to maintain any weight they will lose. so i would like to apologize to anyone that has read my post if i lead you to believe that the band is the most effective on the market, because i can't say that for sure. i can only say that i am happy i chose the band and wouldn't go any other way.

next i would like to say i am happy you made your goal and hope you are able to maintain it through life. your question to me was what have I lost and where am I at with the band. the answer is in my blog ( as you have read already) but i will tell you once again. I have lost 54lbs ( not 59lbs as you stated in a earlier post) and have gained 7lbs back. i am not proud of this fact, because i had the surgery to lose weight not gain it. But never the less i have gained some back. I have gained some back because I had not been to the doctor in 5 months and did not keep up with my fills as i should have( which anyone who knows about how the band works knows that is a vital key in your success) so no wasabubblebutt i have not followed my doctors instructions entirely, but that is why i came on this forum for SUPPORT. I guess that is why most people do come on here. Not to debate about what surgery they should or should not have. you seem to think i was referring to you in the previous post when i was talking about how to maintain success with the band. i was not talking to you nor was i trying to lecture you on weight loss. i was simply stating facts about how people that are obese or over weight think. i know because not only am i one of those people i know several people who are. now you stated to me that YOU made your goal and that is great, but i am not you. i am 16 months out and i have not made my goal. Everyone is different no matter what weight loss surgery you get. so i really don't know what you were trying to prove or get to by making that statement. i started out at a pretty high weight and that does make a difference on if you succeed with the band or not. people that are morbidly obese ( as i am) may not be as successful with the band. i knew that before having the surgery but decided to do it anyway.

the point is we can go back in forth until the cows come home, but it will not make you or i right or wrong either way. you have your opinion and i have mine. you can show studies and i can show studies but at the end of the day thats all they are. what matters is what decison each person makes for themselves and what works best for that person.

now i have noticed that you seem to have to be right and if you debate with alot of people on here. You also say you are a nurse and have questioned my professionalism. you were right about one thing as a nurse we should not try and mislead anyone. we should present all the facts and we should show both sides not just the side we want, but yet you are on here trying to convince everyone that the sleeve is the best thing for them. You also told the person that made the original post that they should go with the sleeve over the lap band. well as a nurse you should know better. you would know as a nurse that it is not in our scope of practice to give medical advice( and telling someone or advising them to do something is giving medical advice) it is actually unlawful and if that person takes your advice and something happens. that person can come back and sue you, because you are not a doctor and you should not tell anyone what to do or not do as far as medical things go. you can try to educate them as us nurses do, but never tell them to go one way or the other. so from one nurse to another i would suggest you watch what advice you give, because it could come back to bite you in the butt. BTW if you do not believe i am a nurse then feel free to call the Iowa Board of Nursing and they can confirm it for me.

Also i never once told anyone in my post to have the lapband done or not done. i should have just been more clear that it is all just my opinion.

oh yes you also posted a website for me to go read about your "research statistics" well i have to laugh because they only compared a few hundred people and if you think that is accurate then i guess that is what you believe.

The bottom is that you will believe what you believe and i will believe what i believe. Does it make you right? NO! Does it make me right? NO! It just makes two people with their own opinions. You stated you made goal with the lap band so you know how it works. Well i guess my question to you is if that is true why did you switch to the sleeve?

my opinion( and only my opinion) i think you may want to find something else to do with your time that is more productive then to come on a forum and try and debate with the people that do not agree with you. Debating is fine but you try and make people believe what you believe and that is not fine. the guy in the other post is correct in saying if you believe so strongly in the sleeve then you should stay on that site and leave this one alone. You have posted something on almost everyones comment as if you are all knowing and no one is all knowing dear. I think you may want to ask yourself why after losing all your weight you still are not happy. i mean( and just my opinion) someone that is happy surely wouldn't spend so much time on the computer arguing with everyone on it. would they? i would think not, but that is just me.

so i guess the bottom line is i am not going to and will continue to go back and forth with you. i came on here to talk to people about their success or failures with the lap band and vice versus. i also came on here for support and hope that i can help someone as well. i did not come on here to argue with anyone. i just believe that is counter productive and will not do it any more.

so once again congrats on your success of weight loss and i do wish you the best for the future.

Wow... first of all paragraphs and punctuation would be greatly appreciated.

I have not sent you personal messages. Everything I have written to you is public. Please refrain from making claims otherwise.

You may not have meant to write (repeatedly) that the band is the most effective WLS type on the market but you argued the point until I asked you for proof. You refer asking for proof as arguing, I do not.

I did not tell anyone to get a sleeve. What I wrote is that I could not suggest a band to a self pay person because of the cost of complications and aftercare. What I did write was a suggestion to look at the sleeve because she is self pay:

Because you are self pay I would look at the sleeve. Better and faster weight loss, NO maintenance! Fewer long term complications than the band, no mega supplements, no rerouting of intestine, no hunger causing hormone-Ghrelin, and an easier journey all the way around.

That is not medical advice, that is one WLS person posting to another for their research purposes. Please, learn the nursing laws.

Since you were writing the post to me in response to what I wrote yes, it is natural to think that you were writing the post to me in response to what I wrote. :biggrin:

Nobody is debating what surgery someone should have. If you will read the OP the reason for the discussion is quite clear.

No, I am not trying to convince everyone that the sleeve is the best thing for them. Show me quotes. I think each person is different and we all need to get the right surgery type for us. If you will look through the sleeve forum many are people that started out wanting a band because they didn't know other options existed. MOST people think the only options they have are bands and bypass. They do not know sleeves and DS exist. I will continue making sure people realize just what their options are and especially if they are self pay.

A good friend of mine is in a position where she is self pay, having severe band problems, and she can't afford to have it removed. She has acid pouring out of her nose and mouth in the middle of the night, she's burning out her sinuses, and she can't afford to do anything about it. People often times get a surgery type based on the cost of the surgery and they do not realize the aftercare is quite expensive. I could never suggest the band for self pay unless the person is loaded and can always afford another surgery type, fills, etc. I say the same about bypass and DS because of the cost of labs and supplements. It's quite expensive.

The reason I made the comment about your weight loss was (again) because you were lecturing me on what I need to do to lose weight. I *did* follow my doctors advice and that is one of the reasons I got to goal quickly.

You dispute the validity of the stats I provided? Do you know where those stats came from? It's from the ASMBS. It's one of MANY similar studies done by a many different doctors. If the ASMBS thought it was worthy of discussion I'm okay with that however you are free to tell them they are all wrong and the band is superior to any other WLS if that is what you believe. At least *I* provided data to back up my claims. That is more than what you did.

Why did I switch to a sleeve? For the same reasons as most everyone else that switches. I had band intolerance. Even with an unfilled band I got to the point that I could not eat solids of any type and was on liquids for 4 months. I wanted quality of life back as well as I wanted my health back. It's difficult at best to maintain weight when after hitting goal you can't eat solid food.

It's not really up to you to decide what I should do with my time. Fact is, you just didn't like my calling you on your inaccurate information. When the OP is questioning her decision to be banded due to stats and complications who is better to reply? You? With the claim that the band is the most effective WLS on the market or the moderator and I who have personal experience with the band and the sleeve? I think if the owner of the forum only wanted banded people here discussing the band he wouldn't have a sleeved moderator working here.

How the heck are you in a position to tell me I am not happy? What do you know about me? A few posts on a message board and you come to decisions about whether or not I am happy? You know nothing about me so please refrain from such bizarre slams in the future because I'll call you on them each and every single time.

Cheers.

VerticalSleeveTalk Click to visit the largest Vertical Sleeve community online!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I am a prime example, My first nine months after being banded I was here everyday reading and posting. Lost all the weight I needed to, and I stoped coming here. 4 years later i'm back because I gained the weight back. Not because the band wasn't working, becasue I wasn't doing what I needed to do.

The great thing about restrictive only procedures is that you don't end up metabolically challenged by the time you reach goal (can happen with bypass) and you are a vet so you'll have an easier time of it this time. You can do it. No learning curve, it's already done. I'll bet you get it off in no time.

oh yes one more thing! i don't feel as if i have failed or the band has failed me because i am not at goal already. my doctor told me before having the surgery that it may take longer then 2 years to get to my goal. so i knew all of that going in. i do plan on making it to my goal but if for some reason i do not. i know it is because I did not do everything I could. NOT because of the band.

I don't recall anyone suggesting you are a failure. I don't recall anyone suggesting your band is a failure. But I would caution you about blaming yourself if you don't meet your goals. What about those that have band intolerance? What about those that if they get the slightest fill they have severe reflux causing Barretts Esophagus? What about those who erode? What did they do wrong? If you end up with one of those problems what is it that you would have done wrong? My point is that it is NOT always the person. It really is the band sometimes. I don't want those having problems to feel like it is their fault if it is not.

The band was not a good tool for me, I hope it is absolutely the perfect tool for you. You already have come a long way so I'm sure you'll continue doing well.

[elcee 3,341]

I have seen the term band intolerance a number of times on various threads. Can someone please explain what exactly it is? i.e what is causing the reaction etc

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I have seen the term band intolerance a number of times on various threads. Can someone please explain what exactly it is? i.e what is causing the reaction etc

It can mean a variety of things. Elisabeth had it in the sense that she had such uncontrollable reflux she had acid coming out her nose and mouth in the middle of the night and had to sleep in a chair. She didn't even have any restriction whatsoever.

For me it was a little different. You know how during times of stress you get a little tighter? For me I'd obstruct if I was stressed. Anything such as TOM, time of day, weather, humidity, altitude, anything that makes some people a little tighter I would totally obstruct with an unfilled band. If life was good I could eat anything in any quantity. If I was the least bit anxious I would obstruct and couldn't even drink Water.

Anything that is out of the bandsters control that destroys quality of life with the band is essentially band intolerance. It doesn't usually happen right away, usually it starts 1-2 years post op.

[Albacheeser 0]

Please take the following post in the friendliest of contexts, please...

I left for a couple days and then returned cooled down and re-read much of the thread.

I then realized why I was so put off by one or more of the posters. Despite using a good measure of reason and facts they found it difficult at times to bring any people to their way of thinking that did not already agree with them.

Here is some good friendly advise I thought I would share so as to assist certain posters with their interpersonal skills...

First, as Dale Carnegie once asserted something like: if you want to win someone over to your way of thinking avoid criticizing, don't be condescending, and compliment sincerely when you can.

Much of the wordy posts were well constructed. However, there are several kinds of rhetoric you might want to stay away from...

For example, one of you claimed that...

Why is it that bandsters confusing "flaming" with "stats and facts"? Why is that threatening?

However, sprinkled in with your facts, figures, and stats, I found, lo and behold things other than just facts and figures.

Here are some recent examples from their posts...

When you are a noob you are all about reversible.

You might not have realized that this was condescending if the person was a noob, but if they were not then even more so.

Education, it's a good thing.

The most charitable thing a person can say about this is that it is "flippant" and, again, condescending. Psychologists, Psychs, along with their "peer reviewed" studies indicates this type of comment makes your interlocutor entrench in their own position under these circumstances and will not be brought to your way of thinking. Avoid this kind of remark.

Complications... another dishonest statement on your part.

Presumptuous, unless you are in the mind of the poster you cannot know if they are being honest or not.

You may not understand how an OR works.

Presumptuous and condescending, my father's a doctor, my brother's a doctor, my sister is an RN and a head nurse, my niece is an PA, and have 2 best friends that are doctors. I'm a businessman. I know that, while doctors tend to make lousy businessmen, they know how to make money whatever procedure they perform. Moreover, I have a 146 IQ and am no idiot myself and RNs, PAs, and MDs are not mystifying to me and I don't consider them high priests but rather highly skilled professionals. I've known some health care professionals that are opposed to ANY kind of bariatric surgery. Should we take away their license? Your health care title can only take you so far. By the way, some nurses around here seem to have an unhealthy opinion of most doctors. I guess that's normal, though.

Wow... first of all paragraphs and punctuation would be greatly appreciated.

Now maybe this poster is an English major too and was simply applying more "facts and figures", but I'd rather think they were just making a good old fashioned "dig" at the other person. It might be a "fact" but it is not a fact related to bariatric surgery as far as I know.

First it was the mesh band, that didn't work. Then the non adjustable band, that didn't work. Then the small adjustable band, nothing changed really. Now the mega adjustable band. I don't know, from reading revision boards I'm not seeing where the fewer slips and erosion promises are panning out.

Well, isn't this ironic. The poster of the highest statistical and "stick to facts and figures" order (and I mean that) has just made a statement based entirely on personal anecdotal experience and not backed up by "peer reviewed" studies. (chuckle)

These all seem more like "flaming" than "facts and figures".

It might have felt good to make these statements, but they don't convince people.

The bottom line point to all this is if someone does not like you, they will always be inclined to disagree with you no matter how much "sense" you believe you make. It's simple human nature.

I consider myself open minded, but I am not a masochist. I hope everyone out there with the "love-sleeve" considers some of my points.

Best wishes to all...

Edited August 19, 2009 by Albacheeser

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Please take the following post in the friendliest of contexts, please...

I left for a couple days and then returned cooled down and re-read much of the thread.

I then realized why I was so put off by one or more of the posters. Despite using a good measure of reason and facts they found it difficult at times to bring any people to their way of thinking that did not already agree with them.

Here is some good friendly advise I thought I would share so as to assist certain posters with their interpersonal skills...

First, as Dale Carnegie once asserted something like: if you want to win someone over to your way of thinking avoid criticizing, don't be condescending, and compliment sincerely when you can.

Much of the wordy posts were well constructed. However, there are several kinds of rhetoric you might want to stay away from...

For example, one of you claimed that...

However, sprinkled in with your facts, figures, and stats, I found, lo and behold things other than just facts and figures.

Here are some recent examples from their posts...

You might not have realized that this was condescending if the person was a noob, but if they were not then even more so.

The most charitable thing a person can say about this is that it is "flippant" and, again, condescending. Psychologists, Psychs, along with their "peer reviewed" studies indicates this type of comment makes your interlocutor entrench in their own position under these circumstances and will not be brought to your way of thinking. Avoid this kind of remark.

Presumptuous, unless you are in the mind of the poster you cannot know if they are being honest or not.

Presumptuous and condescending, my father's a doctor, my brother's a doctor, my sister is an RN and a head nurse, my niece is an PA, and have 2 best friends that are doctors. I'm a businessman. I know that, while doctors tend to make lousy businessmen, they know how to make money whatever procedure they perform. Moreover, I have a 146 IQ and am no idiot myself and RNs, PAs, and MDs are not mystifying to me and I don't consider them high priests but rather highly skilled professionals. I've known some health care professionals that are opposed to ANY kind of bariatric surgery. Should we take away their license? Your health care title can only take you so far. By the way, some nurses around here seem to have an unhealthy opinion of most doctors. I guess that's normal, though.

Now maybe this poster is an English major too and was simply applying more "facts and figures", but I'd rather think they were just making a good old fashioned "dig" at the other person. It might be a "fact" but it is not a fact related to bariatric surgery as far as I know.

Well, isn't this ironic. The poster of the highest statistical and "stick to facts and figures" order (and I mean that) has just made a statement based entirely on personal anecdotal experience and not backed up by "peer reviewed" studies. (chuckle)

These all seem more like "flaming" than "facts and figures".

It might have felt good to make these statements, but they don't convince people.

The bottom line point to all this is if someone does not like you, they will always be inclined to disagree with you no matter how much "sense" you believe you make. It's simple human nature.

I consider myself open minded, but I am not a masochist. I hope everyone out there with the "love-sleeve" considers some of my points.

Best wishes to all...

You have written a boatload of ... well, nothing.

I stand behind my posts.

When you have something of value to type, do let me know.

[kgloverii 0]

Just weighing in here...

Here are my statistics:

The band got me skinny.

I didn't know about the sleeve.

I have a sleeve-fund set up for **when** my band goes south.

I will ride my band till the wheels fall off.

I never know if/when I will be able to eat on a day to day basis. IF I can eat. I CAN EAT, if I can't, I can't. It is a PITA.

My band is my best friend and my worst enemy.

I encourage everyone do to the research into a sleeve.

[luluc 6]

Just weighing in here...

Here are my statistics:

The band got me skinny.

I didn't know about the sleeve.

I have a sleeve-fund set up for **when** my band goes south.

I will ride my band till the wheels fall off.

I never know if/when I will be able to eat on a day to day basis. IF I can eat. I CAN EAT, if I can't, I can't. It is a PITA.

My band is my best friend and my worst enemy.

I encourage everyone do to the research into a sleeve.

***golf claps***

sums me up PERFECTLY

[lacasst 1]

not really true.

many have found a place here outside the post op / pre op threads and post daily & have made IRL friendships.

it gets tiresome seeing the same thread over/over - you answer some days ... some days you know someone else will do it.....as sadie puts it.

to the OP - there are many successful people w/the band & complications are reality. i've had a few hiccups - but nothing that has damaged the band/port, all the while maintaining for over a yr.

i would look into ALL WLS - i think the band is very hard to work, if you ask my husband he would only suggest the band because he has had a cake walk. barely needed a fill - got to goal w/in 6 months....ZERO complications. me i wish i looked into my options a bit more - i wouldn't pick the band now knowing what i do.

Hey Luluc,

I kinda feel the same way as you.I'm 9 months out so maybe I'm jumping the gun but a good friend of mine did gastric bypass the same time as me.And when I compare our experiences & weightloss results she has had it so much easier than me.I too feel like I am working so hard to get half the result that she isn't even having to work for!! I really wish I would have looked into the sleeve more because it was an option for me I just got a little scared of them removing a good part of your stomach.But this back & forth fill game can be a nightmare!! Oh well I guess you just make the best of it!!

[lacasst 1]

Just weighing in here...

Here are my statistics:

The band got me skinny.

I didn't know about the sleeve.

I have a sleeve-fund set up for **when** my band goes south.

I will ride my band till the wheels fall off.

I never know if/when I will be able to eat on a day to day basis. IF I can eat. I CAN EAT, if I can't, I can't. It is a PITA.

My band is my best friend and my worst enemy.

I encourage everyone do to the research into a sleeve.

I concur!! I had a co-worker's husband that did the sleeve and he tried to talk me out of the band but I did not listen.He is doing very well and now I wish I would have listened!!

[Elisabethsew 50]

I concur!! I had a co-worker's husband that did the sleeve and he tried to talk me out of the band but I did not listen.He is doing very well and now I wish I would have listened!!:biggrin:

You're doing VERY well so take pride in your accomplishments. Any weight loss takes work. With the sleeve, you have a MUCH smaller stomach and the hunger hormone is severely reduced. However, if you don't stick to 3 healthy meals a day and an occasional snack but rather graze on food all day, you won't lose.

Congratulations on your loss.