They can't even run "Cash for Clunkers" -- yet they want to handle your healthcare

[BethFromVA 5]

Government Suspends 'Clunkers' Program

At Current Rate, Giving Out $3,500 Or $4,500 Per Vehicle Would Burn Through $1 Billion Allocated In No Time

"Cash for Clunkers" came to a screeching halt Thursday, after only six days on the road.

In a shocker, the government announced it would suspend the program at midnight because demand was too great.

It may have been the best $1 billion the government has spent so far this year.

Business was humming at Crestmont Toyota/Volkswagen Thursday night as salespeople rushed back to work on news that the government's "Cash for Clunkers" program was being suspended.

It's the deal where you get up to $4,500 for your older low mileage beast if you buy a new car with more efficient fuel consumption.

On Thursday night we learned the program was only good until midnight, all because of a backlog of red tape. So the salespeople were trying to get their deals through the government's Web site.

"People are loving it. It's wonderful. It's a great stimulus package," salesman Andy Beloff said.

But when asked if the government was running the program well, Beloff said, "No. No."

The dealership's lot had roughly 40 clunkers waiting to be shipped to the junkyard. Each one has already been replaced by a brand new lower mileage car. The program only started last Friday. It's a victim of its own success.

But the money may be running out faster than anyone imagined.

With almost 23,000 deals already processed and tens of thousands more in the pipeline, it's possible the $1 billion allocated for the program might have already run out and into the pockets of people like Christie Acosta, who knew a good deal when she saw one.

"I had a 1987 Ford Explorer. We had it for a while and I was ready to get rid of it," Acosta said.

For the economy it's good news, but the government's miscalculation has some a little nervous.

"These are just the deals we have to submit tonight," Crestmont president Bill Strauss said while holding a stack of papers. He said the dealership has over $100,000 on the table.

"If they can't administer a program like this, I'd be a little concerned about my health insurance," car salesman Rob Bojaryn said.

The "Clunkers" program was being administered by the National Highway Safety Administration, which has seemed overwhelmed from the get-go. Some in Congress are expected to push for expansion of the $1 billion budget on Friday.

If you have a "Clunkers" deal in the works, don't worry. The government said Thursday any transactions already made between dealers and consumers will be honored.

Government Suspends Popular 'Clunkers' Program - wcbstv.com

Yeah, where do I sign up for that healthcare? Idiots...

[Headhunter 6]

BUT......

They can put on a mighty fine Beer Summit......

HH

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Actually the government is going to put about $2 billion more in stimulus money into this cash for clunkers program. The fact that there was a greater demand than originally thought does not translate into the government failing to run this program. In this sluggish economy it was natural to have low expectations.

I think the fact that the government even came up with this innovative concept shows that they are forward thinking. And not defenders of the status quo.

We trust the government to run our military and keep us safe but somehow we don't think they can do a chest x-ray. People love the current run health care program - known as Medicare. Just try telling those recipients they will lose it.

[BeckyinTn 0]

A friend of mine just went to trade her Ford van in and was told that even though the van is eligible she is unable to trade because she still owes on the van. She owes $1500 and would have recieved $4500. That is just part of the "fine print" that we are not being told about. The way this was advertised was if it was registered to you and was insured for over a year it could be traded. She had even researched the program on line and no where was that even mentioned.

[BethFromVA 5]

Actually the government is going to put about $2 billion more in stimulus money into this cash for clunkers program. The fact that there was a greater demand than originally thought does not translate into the government failing to run this program. In this sluggish economy it was natural to have low expectations.

Frankly I have no idea why MY tax dollars are going to pay for somebody else to get a car.

I think the fact that the government even came up with this innovative concept shows that they are forward thinking. And not defenders of the status quo.

Um, no, they're all about trying via this maneuver to dictate what types of cars we will be allowed to drive. Why do you think the government now OWNS much of the auto industry??

We trust the government to run our military and keep us safe but somehow we don't think they can do a chest x-ray.

That's a very simple way of putting it. If ALL they were going to do was do chest x-rays, I MIGHT trust them not to screw it up. MIGHT. And I don't trust them to run the military, they simply have the job. I certainly have seen how they've SCREWED the military who came home and needed care. Just ask one. Illegals are treated with more dignity.

People love the current run health care program - known as Medicare.

Says WHO?? I have yet to talk to ANYbody -- user or doctor -- who even LIKES Medicare, much less loves it!

[Gregeriffic 0]

@Cleo's Mom: I agree with you 100% According to these all of a sudden "make shift/wanna be" Libretarians the Gov cant do any thing right. I think they might have a problem with the personel Executive branch but that couldn't be the case right? You can't be right if you fight on both sides "I hate the Gov unless it benefits me and me alone"

[ParrotheadCathy 0]

Okay, Beth.....how is taking low MPG vehicles off the roads in whatever numbers a bad thing? And a stimulus to keep people working in car dealerships (which have been very hard bitten by the economy) isn't terrible either. AND, I didn't see where anybody was told they had to trade in their high MPG cars. They've done other things with stimulas dollars that probably didn't help as many people as this did dollar for dollar, that's for sure. But, oh wait, you didn't complain about that, LOL Just about being told what car to drive......

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Frankly I have no idea why MY tax dollars are going to pay for somebody else to get a car.

I would rather have my tax dollars go to getting the gas guzzlers off the road and helping to make us more energy independent than to use our tax dollars to subsidize the oil industry (a la cheney's energy plan).

Um, no, they're all about trying via this maneuver to dictate what types of cars we will be allowed to drive. Why do you think the government now OWNS much of the auto industry??

To help keep the American auto industry viable which we all have a stake in. The auto industry supports many other industries and many jobs. I would rather help this industry than spend $1 trillion in Iraq than was totally unnecessary and only created jobs for the no-bid contractors of cheney's friends and contributors.

That's a very simple way of putting it. If ALL they were going to do was do chest x-rays, I MIGHT trust them not to screw it up. MIGHT. And I don't trust them to run the military, they simply have the job. I certainly have seen how they've SCREWED the military who came home and needed care. Just ask one. Illegals are treated with more dignity.

Conservative commentator Bill Kristol admitted (on the Daily Show) that the government does in fact provide "first class health care" to the military. But then he argued that even though the government can apparently deliver first class health care the non-military citizens "don't deserve" the same sort of health care option because the troops are awesome and I guess the rest of us aren't. Pretty unbelievable but consistent with irrational conservative thinking.

Says WHO?? I have yet to talk to ANYbody -- user or doctor -- who even LIKES Medicare, much less loves it!

Says this survey which I think carries more weight than your anecdotal "survey".

Meeting Enrollees' Needs: How Do Medicare and Employer Coverage Stack Up? - The Commonwealth Fund

People on Medicare are more satisfied than those with private plans.

And the concept that private plans are 100% private is a fallacy, too. Most people who have health insurance get it through their employer and don't buy it directly. There's a big tax advantage to doing it that way since the employer contributions to health care aren't considered taxable income. But to get that tax advantage employers have to follow a number of (gov't) rules - they can't discriminate on pre-existing medical conditions or restrict benefits to highly paid employees.

So, to the extent that we have a working health care system at all right now is because the government provides regulations for employer based health care and medicare for those 65 and older.

[BeckyinTn 0]

What worries me is how most of the people in this country are not batting an eye that we are slowly losing our rights. Pretty soon the government will be make all of our decisions for us. This has been happening for years so slowly that we haven't really noticed. Doesn't this scare any of y'all?

[BethFromVA 5]

Okay, Beth.....how is taking low MPG vehicles off the roads in whatever numbers a bad thing? And a stimulus to keep people working in car dealerships (which have been very hard bitten by the economy) isn't terrible either. AND, I didn't see where anybody was told they had to trade in their high MPG cars. They've done other things with stimulas dollars that probably didn't help as many people as this did dollar for dollar, that's for sure. But, oh wait, you didn't complain about that, LOL Just about being told what car to drive......

NO, I also complained about using MY tax dollars -- yet AGAIN -- to help people purchase new cars. So... not only are we subsidizing the car industry via bailouts and/or outright takeovers, we are subsidizing them (and individuals) by giving them tax dollars to buy new cars which are predetermined by the government.

Excuse me, but whatever happened to free will and being able to buy whatever the hell I want? This is just the tip of the iceburg.

[BethFromVA 5]

What worries me is how most of the people in this country are not batting an eye that we are slowly losing our rights. Pretty soon the government will be make all of our decisions for us. This has been happening for years so slowly that we haven't really noticed. Doesn't this scare any of y'all?

This is exactly what I'm railing against.

If this doesn't scare the shit out of you, nothing will:

The Cash for Clunkers website, if you use it, allows the government to tap into your computer. I'd love to hear from the Patriot Act haters.

[BethFromVA 5]

I would rather have my tax dollars go to getting the gas guzzlers off the road and helping to make us more energy independent than to use our tax dollars to subsidize the oil industry (a la cheney's energy plan).

You know what would make us more energy independent? Actually BECOMING energy independent!! Why are the pinheads on Capitol Hill against us drilling our own oil?? Not only would WE then be able to set our OWN price, we wouldn't be funding terrorists who hate us AND we would be putting Americans to work! But somehow, that's a stupid plan to too many because heaven help us if we upset the spotted three-legged long-snouted Alaskan caribou. :thumbdown:

To help keep the American auto industry viable which we all have a stake in. The auto industry supports many other industries and many jobs. I would rather help this industry than spend $1 trillion in Iraq than was totally unnecessary and only created jobs for the no-bid contractors of cheney's friends and contributors.

You know what would have helped the American auto industry? For the government to have stayed the hell out of it, let them restructure and rid themselves of the unions who dictate and run up the price of American autos, and for the government to quit demanding that they put out shit products that people not only don't want to buy but CAN'T AFFORD because of all the government specs put on them!

Since the government took over, how successfully has the industry turned around? The government can't even run a food kitchen much less the auto industry. If you can't see yet how inept they are at it, give it time.

Conservative commentator Bill Kristol admitted (on the Daily Show) that the government does in fact provide "first class health care" to the military. But then he argued that even though the government can apparently deliver first class health care the non-military citizens "don't deserve" the same sort of health care option because the troops are awesome and I guess the rest of us aren't. Pretty unbelievable but consistent with irrational conservative thinking.

ROTFLMAO!! How many military have YOU talked to? I have talked to plenty, besides seeing interviews on television and the internet, and they would beg to differ with you. ESPECIALLY if one is a vet. Walter Reed Hospital ring a bell? Trust me, that's just one of MANY.

Says this survey which I think carries more weight than your anecdotal "survey".

Meeting Enrollees' Needs: How Do Medicare and Employer Coverage Stack Up? - The Commonwealth Fund

Whether or not the users like it is inconsequential. The fact is, many doctors will not accept Medicare because it takes them forever to get paid -- and when they DO get paid, they don't even get enough to break even. Many times they don't even make that much.

People on Medicare are more satisfied than those with private plans.

And the concept that private plans are 100% private is a fallacy, too. Most people who have health insurance get it through their employer and don't buy it directly. There's a big tax advantage to doing it that way since the employer contributions to health care aren't considered taxable income. But to get that tax advantage employers have to follow a number of (gov't) rules - they can't discriminate on pre-existing medical conditions or restrict benefits to highly paid employees.

So, to the extent that we have a working health care system at all right now is because the government provides regulations for employer based health care and medicare for those 65 and older.

And frankly, if the government would get the hell out of the way and quit dictating what insurance companies can and can't do, the insurance companies could combine efforts and save us all a hell of a lot more money. But as it is, they can't do that.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

[/color][/b]

You know what would make us more energy independent? Actually BECOMING energy independent!! Why are the pinheads on Capitol Hill against us drilling our own oil?? Not only would WE then be able to set our OWN price, we wouldn't be funding terrorists who hate us AND we would be putting Americans to work! But somehow, that's a stupid plan to too many because heaven help us if we upset the spotted three-legged long-snouted Alaskan caribou. :scared2:

The oil companies already have leases on public land that they could use for drilling but don't. They are making record profits. If they drill for more oil it would mean that they would have to build more refineries. Why would they spend the money to do that when they are making obscene profits now? I want to protect the enviornment from the profit driven rape by the oil companies. And drilling is not the answer. That only produces increased demand for oil, which is non renewable. Alternative, clean, renewable energy and less use through more efficient automobiles, appliances, etc.. is the answer. Reducing our demand for oil both domestic and foreign is the solution.

[/b]

You know what would have helped the American auto industry? For the government to have stayed the hell out of it, let them restructure and rid themselves of the unions who dictate and run up the price of American autos, and for the government to quit demanding that they put out shit products that people not only don't want to buy but CAN'T AFFORD because of all the government specs put on them!

Since the government took over, how successfully has the industry turned around? The government can't even run a food kitchen much less the auto industry. If you can't see yet how inept they are at it, give it time.

The unions helped create the middle class. Not just the auto unions but all of them. They leveled the playing field. CEO's negotiate their contracts - which by the way have far exceeded in terms of % salary increases what the union worker makes - so why shouldn't the workers? I am happy the government put regulations on cars. Remember Ralph Nadar's "Unsafe at any speed?" I want airbags and emission controls and seat belts. They save lives and money. No industry self regulates. They are profit driven and will get away with whatever they can. Including the area of worker safety. I want OSHA looking out for workers. I am glad the FDA is putting more teeth into regulating and inspecting our food and drugs. My motto is "Regulate, baby, regulate" and if Wall Street had had strict regulations under bush (instead of a carte blanche approach) we wouldn't be in the economic mess we are in.

[/b]

ROTFLMAO!! How many military have YOU talked to? I have talked to plenty, besides seeing interviews on television and the internet, and they would beg to differ with you. ESPECIALLY if one is a vet. Walter Reed Hospital ring a bell? Trust me, that's just one of MANY.

There are always disgruntled people who are not satisfied with anything. I think Walter Reed was a wake up call but that was more about the conditions of the infrastructure. I think things have improved. But I do think we need to do more to help those wounded in war, especially head wounds and PTSD.

Says this survey which I think carries more weight than your anecdotal "survey".

Meeting Enrollees' Needs: How Do Medicare and Employer Coverage Stack Up? - The Commonwealth Fund

Whether or not the users like it is inconsequential. The fact is, many doctors will not accept Medicare because it takes them forever to get paid -- and when they DO get paid, they don't even get enough to break even. Many times they don't even make that much.

You're the one who said you hadn't talked to anyone who was satisfied with Medicare. Obviously this poll says otherwise. As for doctors, well, they can eliminate a large pool of people and just not accept Medicare patients.

And frankly, if the government would get the hell out of the way and quit dictating what insurance companies can and can't do, the insurance companies could combine efforts and save us all a hell of a lot more money. But as it is, they can't do that.

Now I'm ROFLMAO - that's just what we need - one giant insurance company unregulated. No competition.

I can only imagine how well that would work out for consumers. It could be called Monolopy Insurance for the stupid.

Remember that insurance companies want to do four things:

1) sell policies

2) collect premiums

3) maximize profits

4) deny as many claims as they can get away with

Now imagine that all under one roof. :thumbdown:

[BethFromVA 5]

Cleosmom, obviously you put your stock in polls which can be skewed or outright lied about. I have talked to people and have seen where these things we're talking about don't work.

So long as you believe what you hear and I believe what I see, we won't ever come to a meeting of the minds.

Trust me, I'd LOVE to see life through rose-colored glasses. I simply choose to be faced with reality than some fluff I'd LIKE to believe.

[KartMan 58]

Cleo’s Mom’

Kudos to you, great posts. I think you have made some excellent points in this thread and have backed those points up with some relevant references and real world scenarios. It’s tough to compete with the “wisdom” of Glenn Beck though, LOL.