Stop Calling it Socialized Medicine!

[pattygreen 5]

Hand over the heart during the national anthem? Pres. Obama has and hasn't done it. It is not required and in modern times a choice. Flag pin? Who cares? McCain doesn't wear one but Jay Leno has since 9/11 and I wouldn't want either one for president.

I wish Obama had the powers you credit him. If he were so powerful we would already have a socialist takeover of the healthcare system.

If he had his way, we would have it already. He wanted it signed so quickly without even knowing what was in it himself! He doesn't have the power, Thank GOD, because of the ingeniousness of the Founding Fathers who wouldn't ever allow a tyranical rule of one person over a people and who set up the checks and balances we have for that reason.

That's called Medicare for all and Pres. Obama has not championed for that. He does support a public option. So do I. So does the majority of Americans.

Timothy McVeigh thought of the government as the enemy - he was an American Taliban of sorts - setting out to attack and kill innocent Americans to retaliate against the "evil" government. Poplawski, who killed 3 police officers because he thought Obama was going to take away his guns - thought of him and the goverment as the enemy, too.

What do they have to do with what we're talking about? Are you trying to say that those who believe in God and want laws that abide by his MORAL code of ethics are murderers? You sound like Nancy Pelosi when she 'almost' shed a tear and allowed her voice to tremble while talking about the 'dangerous' :eek:protestors at town hall meetings.

Militias are springing up all over the country. Hiding out in the woods, in camoflage, armed to the teeth, using the military pledge, except eliminating the part where they say they will obey their commander in chief, the president. These people have lost a sense of reality. And they are dangerous.

WOW! You make mountains out of molehills, that's for sure.

Sarah Palin tried to portray him (and still does) as "not one of us, someone who pals around with terrorists". The unhinged on the right have been spreading lies about Obama since he became a candidate. The sane American people rejected this and voted overwhelmingly for him.

Continue to believe what you want, but as the republican party becomes smaller and far more conservative, it has to become louder and more radical to be heard.

Sane, rational, thinking people see right through it. And so do I.

Why don't we take just one thing at a time in my post and get to the root of it, okay?

He said He was NEVER a Muslim. Never means just that. Never. Mind you, I am not accusing him of something wrong by being a muslim, it's the 'hiding' or 'concealing' of the fact which is wrong. You know, the lying. Yet, many, many websites speak of his Muslim upbringing.

Here's just one.

Barack Obama's Muslim Childhood :: Daniel Pipes

Google was Obama ever a Muslim? See what you get.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I can find nothing that states that Obama said he was a Muslim or actually is one now - from factcheck.org or snopes but I found this: (from urbanlegends)

Is it true that "Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim while admitting that he was once a Muslim?"

Once a Muslim? When? Unless I missed it while skimming Obama's two books and sundry news interviews, the senator has never mentioned being a Muslim at any point in his life. Yes, he lived in a Muslim country during part of his childhood and briefly attended a Muslim school there, but he certainly wasn't raised a Muslim and has never been, so far as I have been able to determine, a practitioner of that faith.

That anyone, let alone a sitting U.S. senator with designs on the highest office in the land, would conceal being a Muslim for twenty-odd years while going through the outward motions of practicing Christianity (or vice-versa, for that matter) is a bizarre accusation. I would be tempted to dismiss it as paranoid lunacy if it weren't so obviously a crass, politically-motivated smear.

Those who adhere to, support and perpetuate the long posting of yours about Obama are well represented in those radical militia groups, American taliban and those, who like Timothy McVeigh come armed to Obama events with signs that advocate the watering of the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants and patriots. I'm sure Timothy McVeigh thought of himself as some modern day patriot and martyr.

People who are mentally unbalanced don't need much provocation to push them over the edge to violence and there is much to push them with all these radical protests, lies and hate filled talk radio.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

So how long have you been insane, irrational and thoughtless? J/K, you know I love your posts

Did you used to watch "West Wing"? In one episode the character of Josh, the deputy chief of staff, came across some website/blog that was ripping (liberal) president Bartlet and he wanted to respond back. EVERY staffer warned him not to enter, not to tred there, not to get suckered in, they begged him not to, but against all advice he went on and boy did it backfire. He was in the quagmire and it was too late. Those people were not rational, either. It was a bit of dark humor but I sometimes feel like him. :thumbup:

[pattygreen 5]

I can find nothing that states that Obama said he was a Muslim or actually is one now - from factcheck.org or snopes but I found this: (from urbanlegends)

That's because those sites are funded by generous government donations.

Is it true that "Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim while admitting that he was once a Muslim?"

Once a Muslim? When? Unless I missed it while skimming Obama's two books and sundry news interviews, the senator has never mentioned being a Muslim at any point in his life. Yes, he lived in a Muslim country during part of his childhood and briefly attended a Muslim school there, but he certainly wasn't raised a Muslim and has never been, so far as I have been able to determine, a practitioner of that faith.

That anyone, let alone a sitting U.S. senator with designs on the highest office in the land, would conceal being a Muslim for twenty-odd years while going through the outward motions of practicing Christianity (or vice-versa, for that matter) is a bizarre accusation. I would be tempted to dismiss it as paranoid lunacy if it weren't so obviously a crass, politically-motivated smear.

Those who adhere to, support and perpetuate the long posting of yours about Obama are well represented in those radical militia groups, American taliban and those, who like Timothy McVeigh come armed to Obama events with signs that advocate the watering of the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants and patriots. I'm sure Timothy McVeigh thought of himself as some modern day patriot and martyr.

Yeah, :rolleyes:Okay Nancy. I know, we're sooooo dangerous.:confused:

People who are mentally unbalanced don't need much provocation to push them over the edge to violence and there is much to push them with all these radical protests, lies and hate filled talk radio.

There are nuts everywhere, and you can't put an end to the protesting of the American people about the things that they are upset about in Washington because there might be a mentally unbalanced somebody out there. There were crazy democratic liberals protesting during the time of Bush's reign and Clintons reign as well, but noone believed they were ALL Timothy Mcveigh's or part of radical militias. Get over it Nancy.:scared2:

[pattygreen 5]

Was Obama Ever a Muslim?

"I've always been a Christian," said Obama, focusing on his own personal lack of practice of Islam as a child to deny any connection to Islam. But Muslims do not see practice as key. For them, that he was born to a line of Muslim males makes him born a Muslim. Further, all children born with an Arabic name based on the H-S-N trilateral root (Hussein, Hassan, and others) can be assumed to be Muslim, so they will understand Obama's full name, Barack Hussein Obama, to proclaim him a born Muslim.

More: family and friends considered him as a child to be Muslim. In "Obama Debunks Claim About Islamic School," Nedra Pickler of the Associated Press wrote on January 24, 2007, that

Obama's mother, divorced from Obama's father, married a man from Indonesia named Lolo Soetoro, and the family relocated to the country from 1967-71. At first, Obama attended the Catholic school, Fransiskus Assisis, where documents showed he enrolled as a Muslim, the religion of his stepfather. The document required that each student choose one of five state-sanctioned religions when registering – Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant.

Asked about this, Obama communications director Robert Gibbs responded by indicating to Pickler that

he wasn't sure why the document had Obama listed as a Muslim. "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim."

Two months later, Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times (available online in a Baltimore Sun reprint) reported that the Obama campaign had retreated from that absolute statement and instead issued a more nuanced one: "Obama has never been a practicing Muslim." The Times looked into the matter further and learned more about his Indonesian interlude:

His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended. That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religious class.

[pattygreen 5]

I don't care whether Obama is Muslim or Catholic or whatever. What's not right is his deceitfulness about it. I call that lying.

[pattygreen 5]

I'll be back Sunday. I'm going on my church's woman's retreat in sturbridge, Mass. Talk to you then. Bye.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I don't care whether Obama is Muslim or Catholic or whatever. What's not right is his deceitfulness about it. I call that lying.

Show me where Obama said he is not a Muslim and then again PROVE that he is. And use legitimate sources, not right wing, conservative, biased sources.

Also, this about factcheck.org:

Browse > Home / About

About

Our Mission

We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.

FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels.

The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.

[pattygreen 5]

Our Mission

We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.

FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels.

The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.

Factcheck can write ANYTHING they choose to write as their statement of 'mission'. But in FACT .... "When the government is the one generously supporting you financially, I don't believe a "fact" they come up with!!!!!!

[pattygreen 5]

Obama Spokesman Robert Gibbs Issued A Statement Explaining That "Senator Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, Was Not Raised As A Muslim, And Is A Committed Christian." "Obama's campaign aides have emphasized his strong Christian beliefs and downplayed any Islamic connection. The Illinois senator was raised 'in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother,’ his chief spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said in a statement in January after false reports began circulating that Obama had attended a radical madrasa, or Koranic school, as a child. 'To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago,’ Gibbs' Jan. 24 statement said." [Los Angeles Times, 3/16/07]

Factcheck has also issued that statement, and since you believe everything they say to be factual, then it's true. He has claimed to have NEVER been a Muslim. LIE!

He may 'say' That he is a Christian, and that's great if he truly is. But the Lord tells us that by a man's fruit you shall know him. Obama is Prochoice and all for Gay marriages and he doesn't mind at all the taking of money from the rich and giving it to the poor.(thievery) These 3 issues are contrary beliefs to what God deems right and good.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Obama Spokesman Robert Gibbs Issued A Statement Explaining That "Senator Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, Was Not Raised As A Muslim, And Is A Committed Christian." "Obama's campaign aides have emphasized his strong Christian beliefs and downplayed any Islamic connection. The Illinois senator was raised 'in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother,’ his chief spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said in a statement in January after false reports began circulating that Obama had attended a radical madrasa, or Koranic school, as a child. 'To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago,’ Gibbs' Jan. 24 statement said." [Los Angeles Times, 3/16/07]

Factcheck has also issued that statement, and since you believe everything they say to be factual, then it's true. He has claimed to have NEVER been a Muslim. LIE!

He may 'say' That he is a Christian, and that's great if he truly is. But the Lord tells us that by a man's fruit you shall know him. Obama is Prochoice and all for Gay marriages and he doesn't mind at all the taking of money from the rich and giving it to the poor.(thievery) These 3 issues are contrary beliefs to what God deems right and good.

Where is the proof that Obama is/was a Muslim - from a reputable source - not some right wing/conservative and/or "christian" website.

Also - prove that factcheck.org is a government funded site.

Again - with the same type of sources.

It's easy to denounce neutral websites that debunk myths and lies when you don't agree with them. Most reasonable people go to factcheck.org or snopes for the truth about internet rumors.

If I just started making up lies about bush and found some whacko site to support them and then dismissed any/all sites or information to the contrary - well, that would be easy, wouldn't it? Just dismiss the truth and perpetuate the lies.

There are many who are christian who support gay marriage, are pro-choice and who believe in helping the least among us. I am one of them and you are in no position to judge whether I am a christian by your definition or not (and don't say it's God's definition because I can read the bible too, and come to my OWN interpretations/conclusions, just as you have).

[pattygreen 5]

This comes from their website. I just copied and pasted. My point is highlighted in red.

Center History

When the Annenberg Public Policy Center (APPC) was established in 1993, its founders, Ambassadors Walter and Leonore Annenberg, sought to increase the impact of the scholarship produced at Penn’s Annenberg School for Communication, the Policy Center’s home. It was their hope that the APPC would apply its knowledge about communication to improve the well-being of those in the U.S. and throughout the globe. In the subsequent years, APPC research has been put to use in studies of adolescent health, HIV and AIDS, media content analysis and political civility.

Funding for APPC comes through an endowment established by the Annenberg Foundation, as well as the generous support of federal agencies and foundations.

APPC projects are overseen by a staff of 54 people.

Edited November 22, 2009 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

Where is the proof that Obama is/was a Muslim - from a reputable source - not some right wing/conservative and/or "christian" website.

Also - prove that factcheck.org is a government funded site.

Again - with the same type of sources.

It's easy to denounce neutral websites that debunk myths and lies when you don't agree with them. Most reasonable people go to factcheck.org or snopes for the truth about internet rumors.

If I just started making up lies about bush and found some whacko site to support them and then dismissed any/all sites or information to the contrary - well, that would be easy, wouldn't it? Just dismiss the truth and perpetuate the lies.

There are many who are christian who support gay marriage, are pro-choice and who believe in helping the least among us. I am one of them and you are in no position to judge whether I am a christian by your definition or not (and don't say it's God's definition because I can read the bible too, and come to my OWN interpretations/conclusions, just as you have).

Christians who support gay marriage and abortions are christians who have not read their bible and what God says about those issues. You can be a christian (a believer in Jesus), yet be wrong on your stand on an issue. It doesn't mean that God does not allow you into heaven when you die, it just means that you are wrong about what God says about that issue. There are many denominations of Christianity for that reason, but there are black and whites in the bible that have no gray area. Abortion and Gay marriage and stealing, among other issues, are those black and white issues that can not be disputed amongst believers. God said so and that's that! There is no other interpretation for those issues.

Lev. 18:22

, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13

, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10

, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28

, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

[pattygreen 5]

{QUOTE}There are many who are christian who support gay marriage, are pro-choice and who believe in helping the least among us. I am one of them and you are in no position to judge whether I am a christian by your definition or not (and don't say it's God's definition because I can read the bible too, and come to my OWN interpretations/conclusions, just as you have).

I believe as well, in helping the least among us. I don't believe in stealing from the rich to give to the poor, though. I believe that each individual should do for the poor as they are led by 'God' to do, not the 'government'.

Also, I am not judging your faith. If you say you are a christian, then you are. That is between you and God. All I know is that anyone who says that they are a follower of Christ needs to be in obedience to him and what he says.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Christians who support gay marriage and abortions are christians who have not read their bible and what God says about those issues. You can be a christian (a believer in Jesus), yet be wrong on your stand on an issue. It doesn't mean that God does not allow you into heaven when you die, it just means that you are wrong about what God says about that issue. There are many denominations of Christianity for that reason, but there are black and whites in the bible that have no gray area. Abortion and Gay marriage and stealing, among other issues, are those black and white issues that can not be disputed amongst believers. God said so and that's that! There is no other interpretation for those issues.

Lev. 18:22

, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13

, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10

, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28

, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

The bible also says this:

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21

If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.

DEUTERONOMY 22:22

If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.

MARK 10:1-12

Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.

LEVITICUS 18:19

The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed. MARK 12:18-27

If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12

If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.

I am not going to debate religion. The voters knew Pres. Obama's stand on abortion, gays and helping those who are unable to help themselves and they overwhelmingly voted for him - therefore, it is your views that are out of touch with mainstream American voters.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Cleo's Mom