"Program Fees"

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

This is Greta. Since a lot of people asked me for details here it goes.....My doctor Milton Owens, Orange county ca, charges $3,700, yes $3,700 additional and it's a total rip off. this "includes", 24 hour access to him(I called the day after surgery to ask something, I've never heard from him. It's been 2 1/2 weeks), for a program manual, he gave me the program that lapband.com sends out for free and put a white sticker with his name on it. Nutrition guidance. i called to ask a question and they referred me to the free manual. It's awful. I asked for a refund, sent a letter going through each point, ;and they said tough, you signed the paper. Beware of Milton Owens. Anybody want to ask me I will be happy to answer.

There is a section here on LBT to write reviews of doctors. I'd really encourage you to do that.

Also, OH has a place for patient testimonials, please... get an OH account and write in detail of your experiences.

www.obesityhelp.com

[greta 0]

BigMomma - My $3,500 DID NOT include phyc, nutrition, etc. so if your insurance did not pay for all these pre op things, $1,000 seems right. I paid that on my own!! I agree restless monkey, there should not be extra fees on top of insurance.

[RestlessMonkey 7]

Usually what insurance requires, insurance covers...otherwise there's no real need for the psych consult etc. It's just an added expense, IMHO. It's rare that someone who isn't really "right" for the band is caught this way! :smile2: And the more "medical" consults should be covered because they inform the surgeon and can provide optimum outcomes during surgery.

[greta 0]

thanks wasabubblebutt I will post my experience . I didn't know about that thread. i'm not very computer savvy and have been bumbling around.

[greta 0]

HEY hh - Yeah, this doc is raking it in. The $3,500 includes a consultation fee ( he also charged my insurance $350 for this), a program manual (he used the free one send out by lapband.com and attached a white sticker with his name), online chat groups (they told me to go to www.lapbandtalk.com (like I need to pay him to tell me about this website!!!

[BigMomma 0]

this is such BS! Usually INSURANCE (if you have it) covers "the necessary preop procedures"...psych consult, any tests (x ray GI series ultrasound, blood work cardiac consult whatever!) and your visits to surgeon as well!

Good grief they shouldn't be charging "fees". Period!

After trying to do this before I calculated $1000 is what I would have spent with the dr supervised diet, nutritionist, psych and surgeon co-pays it was about the same. I guess I will investigate more about what the fee covers. Thanks to everyone for making me check into this.

[Headhunter 6]

Check out Dr Owen's picture here:

Bariatric Surgeon Profile - Milton L. Owens M.D.

He looks like a freakin' Soap opera actor......:smile2:

HH

[RestlessMonkey 7]

Headhunter oh pal...it's really in bad form to make fun of a person's looks...but you are absolutely RIGHT !!!

ROFLMAO

[Veronda 30]

HEY hh - Yeah, this doc is raking it in. The $3,500 includes a consultation fee ( he also charged my insurance $350 for this), a program manual (he used the free one send out by lapband.com and attached a white sticker with his name), online chat groups (they told me to go to www.lapbandtalk.com (like I need to pay him to tell me about this website!!!

Greta, this may be an out. I'm not positive, but I think it may be illegal to bill your insurance company for something they also charged you. Have you brought it up with your insurance company? They may be able to help you if it turns out what he's doing is also costing them money.

And not that I'm condoning this program fee at all, but if you can't get a refund, I hope you'll be able to look at it more positively. I work in healthcare, and the people who pay out of pocket for things tend to value them so much more than those who do not or who have very low co-pays. This means they're getting more out of it because they've made an "investment" in their health. So I hope you (and the others who paid program fees) can consider the $3500 an investment in yourself and as encouragement to really make the band work for you...it's only a waste of money if you get nothing out of it, right? And it was a compromise of sorts...you had everything settled except for the surgeon, so you paid a premium for it to work within the schedule you set. Similarly, I almost paid cash for the band a few years ago but decided to wait until I had insurance that covered it...I'll be saving about $16,000 compared to the cash price, but my compromise is that I can't get the band from my preferred surgeon and instead have to deal with a practice that I'm not too fond of.

I'm a glass-half-full kind of person, but if I let something like that get to me, it'll consume me, and in the long run, it'll cause me to fail because my efforts would have been on being angry instead of making it work for me. I hope you can get past the fees and really make the band work for you. Just think: You're banded! Hooray for you!! If you hadn't paid the fee, would you be banded right now?

I think you did the right thing by naming the surgeon so others don't get lured in. Good luck with your band!

V.

[RestlessMonkey 7]

And not that I'm condoning this program fee at all, but if you can't get a refund, I hope you'll be able to look at it more positively. I work in healthcare, and the people who pay out of pocket for things tend to value them so much more than those who do not or who have very low co-pays. V.

Oh good grief, you don't believe that do you? I'm generally a live and let live type but while SOME people may not value anything unless "they" pay for it, generally that statement is a bunch of BS.

I know you're trying to be upbeat for Greta but to imply that she'll get more out of her surgery because her doc cheated her out of 3.5 k is, well, too much for me.

[Veronda 30]

Oh good grief, you don't believe that do you? I'm generally a live and let live type but while SOME people may not value anything unless "they" pay for it, generally that statement is a bunch of BS.

I know you're trying to be upbeat for Greta but to imply that she'll get more out of her surgery because her doc cheated her out of 3.5 k is, well, too much for me.

Well, it's true that I think she was cheated out of a lot of money, but I also think that that money is what got her her surgery in the timeframe she wanted...obviously she couldn't find someone else to do it when she wanted it done...she said she had already taken the time off work and wanted to get it done...so it's the unfortunate price she had to pay. I'm all for her trying to get it back. But yes, I have seen plenty of people who get more out of the things they pay for compared to getting things for free. Money is a big incentive to people, and people tend to take things for granted when they're handed to them, and that sadly includes their money vs their health. There are exceptions to the rule, of course, but I encounter it literally every day. Think about other possessions...aren't you more willing to get rid of freebies compared to similar items you paid good money for? At any rate, what's been done is done, and she's named the surgeon (whose ad I've seen multiple times since reading the thread) and helped others to avoid it, and now she can use her personal cost as ammunition to really make it work for her. If she doesn't, then yes, that $3500 was a waste...if she doesn't use the band for all its worth, then she could have waited to find a surgeon who didn't charge the fee, saved that money, but been without her weight-loss aid for all that extra time. I'd say it's money well spent if she can look at it that way. Believe me, I'd be kicking myself too, and I'm glad I've seen someone else's mistake so I can be prepared. Greta, if nothing else, your experience has helped others!

[RestlessMonkey 7]

No, I'm not more willing to "get rid of freebies" and I feel that you are unintentionally implying that those of us with insurance won't really value things as much. You are a pharmacist; do you REALLY think people who pay full price for a drug value it more than those who have insurance? And realize that most of us work our TUSHIES off in jobs for which one of the "benefits" IS insurance. So I disagree with you. Not many people would cheerfully pay for something that should be "free", either. Do you ever say "Gee I really want that. It's free over there but I want to pay for it anyway so I'll appreciate it more"? I doubt it.

This isn't a personal attack and usually, as I say, if I disagree I just let things go, but I feel Greta almost had that money stolen from her in an end run around her "legal" insurance payment. I don't think that will make her appreciative, just bitter. I don't know her, of course. Nor do you. But I think your logic, while well intentioned, is flawed.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

No, I'm not more willing to "get rid of freebies" and I feel that you are unintentionally implying that those of us with insurance won't really value things as much. You are a pharmacist; do you REALLY think people who pay full price for a drug value it more than those who have insurance? And realize that most of us work our TUSHIES off in jobs for which one of the "benefits" IS insurance. So I disagree with you. Not many people would cheerfully pay for something that should be "free", either. Do you ever say "Gee I really want that. It's free over there but I want to pay for it anyway so I'll appreciate it more"? I doubt it.

This isn't a personal attack and usually, as I say, if I disagree I just let things go, but I feel Greta almost had that money stolen from her in an end run around her "legal" insurance payment. I don't think that will make her appreciative, just bitter. I don't know her, of course. Nor do you. But I think your logic, while well intentioned, is flawed.

I almost always agree with you but this time I do not. I agree with Veronda.

I know soooo many people that are obese and well to do and if insurance won't pay for WLS they won't self pay. It's not as though they have no choice, they can well afford it.

Do you honestly think a person with that mindset is going to do as well as someone who wants it soooo badly they they sell off wedding rings and such to get WLS?

I've seen every type of person there is posting on these boards over the last three years and I've seen people write things such as... I really don't think the band is going to work for me, I probably need a bypass but if it doesn't then insurance will pay for revision surgery to bypass. Do you think a self pay person is as likely to say that?

And btw, we self pays work *really* hard busting our butts for our benefits, too. ;o)

[RestlessMonkey 7]

I think that to overcharge someone for something does NOT make that person appreciate it. BUT if you really REALLY think it does, you and Veronda could start sending me $100 a month for your LBT membership! :frown: LOL

I'll email my address....checks or cash please!

And WASa it's good we disagree occasionally, otherwise it would just be too clone-ish sci-fi odd. :tongue_smilie:

Edited July 11, 2009 by RestlessMonkey

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I think that to overcharge someone for something does NOT make that person appreciate it. BUT if you really REALLY think it does, you and Veronda could start sending me $100 a month for your LBT membership! :frown: LOL

I'll email my address....checks or cash please!

And WASa it's good we disagree occasionally, otherwise it would just be too clone-ish sci-fi odd. :tongue_smilie:

Ever hear the phrase... Nurses eat their young? ;o))))