LapBand VS Sleeve??

[RestlessMonkey 7]

I think I'll PM you about this; I don't have a "formed" opinion but still gathering info and don't need to subject anyone who reads this thread to my meanderings.

I do love my band though and I for one would likely never have had the surgery had it not been an option. Too bad, too; I needed some help.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

It is still performed, and for many it is the option insurance will provide. So do I misinterpret this when I assume that we should NOT get the band?

Ergo...antilapbandtalk.com

And when asked "why did you choose lapband" I'd need to say "it doesn't apply since it is obviously the wrong choice"

Understand I firmly believe in debate and think free speech is good. However I've been here about a year now (not as long as many of you, but longer than some) and tried to give thoughtful, prudent, sound advice. I'm feeling in recent months though a trend to kind of "pounce" on people who prefer the band.

Perhaps I'm being overly sensitive and if so, please forgive me (can't blame PMS...I'm past all that!) but others have voiced concerns to me too.

At any rate, as I always say, if I don't like what I'm reading I can just move on. No one forces me to come here, and if the prevailing need is for the pros of the sleeve over the band, so be it. I have other venues for support, and I don't want my prejudices or what I would find useful to spoil things for others.

I kind of get the feeling that you would prefer stats and facts not be posted. That's not how I know you but that is what your post brings to mind.

Truth is, the band and bypass are yesterdays procedures. Sleeves and DS are todays procedures. If that does not fit into your mindset, so be it. But it does not change reality.

The band has the lowest weight loss, the slowest weight loss, and the highest regain of all WLS procedures. That's a fact. Not my numbers, just the facts. If something is out there that is better and safer, should we hide it?

[RestlessMonkey 7]

Fact is Wasa I've asked you for backup and you tell me it's been deleted. True, no?

Much as I like you, calling something a "fact" doesn't make it so. No matter how many times you repeat it, or how

vehemently.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Fact is Wasa I've asked you for backup and you tell me it's been deleted. True, no?

Much as I like you, calling something a "fact" doesn't make it so. No matter how many times you repeat it, or how

vehemently.

Sorry, I'm drawing a total blank at what you are referring to that's been deleted regarding bands vs. sleeves.

It is a fact. Check out studies. Here is a recent one:

Medical News: ASMBS: Gastric Banding Less Effective than Other Procedures - in Meeting Coverage, ASMBS from MedPage Today

[RestlessMonkey 7]

I've asked you twice for stats and each time you told me they were deleted. I didn't say the stats were for lap band vs sleeve.

Furthermore, you KNOW there is more to choice than stats. Or, do you roll the dice, play the odds, check the stats every time you do anything? Stats are easily manipulated. They are informative but should NOT be the only guide.

I am GLAD you have your sleeve and honest to God glad you like it. I mean that. (Please reread that sentence)

Can you say the same about me and my band? Nah.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I've asked you twice for stats and each time you told me they were deleted. I didn't say the stats were for lap band vs sleeve.

Furthermore, you KNOW there is more to choice than stats. Or, do you roll the dice, play the odds, check the stats every time you do anything? Stats are easily manipulated. They are informative but should NOT be the only guide.

I am GLAD you have your sleeve and honest to God glad you like it. I mean that. (Please reread that sentence)

Can you say the same about me and my band? Nah.

Ohhhhhh, you mean Inamed's stats. Yes, they have been deleted but I am sorry, I have no control over that. I could call them and insist the repost them but do you think it would be in their best interest to do so? You can ask me a million times to post the link but if they deleted it, I can't do that.

I can provide you with at least 100 studies showing the band provides the lowest and slowest weight loss. Is that what you would like to see?

Why would I lie about this? What do I care what procedure type someone gets? It's no skin off my nose if someone chooses bypass, DS, sleeve, or banding. I just want people to know the truth about all surgery types so they can choose what is right for them.

As for the "nah" comment about your band, you are full of it. I want people to have whatever WLS type is right for them. If it is the band, so be it. I want everyone to experience goal, it's the best freak'en feeling in the world.

I feel like you are wanting validation that the band is the best surgery type out there and I'm sorry, I can't do that. It is not the best surgery type out there. It is right for some people but not the majority. If you are one that the band is best, kewl Beans. That's what I love to see. A person that got the best surgery type for them.

[RestlessMonkey 7]

No I don't want validation. You don't know me very well, of course, but trust me. You thinking I had the right surgery doesn't matter one damn bit to me. Don't mean that nasty either. Just that I've got a good brain and usually make up my own mind. I just meant that I don't have an agenda and I feel you do, is all.

HOWEVER

Wasa I just had an epiphany.

This is just me, of course.

But personally? I dont' really care. The stats won't change my opionion. The god of WLS (whoever THAT IS) won't change my opinion. I have my band, I've had it a year, and I LOVE it. I don't want a different surgery, and I would have never ever had the sleeve or bypass. So I'm lucky the band was there, even if it IS the edsel of WLS (which I am still not necessarily in agreement about)

As long as we each get what we need, who cares?

You're happy with yours, I like mine just fine.

Those who are still deciding will decide with our without our debate and will probably base their choices on things over which we have no knowledge or control, so it's almost moot.

Peace out, my dear. We can just disagree and leave it at that. I still like you even if I've exasperated you.

[Elisabethsew 50]

I did a lot of research on the band before I had it and on VSG before I revised. Here are two peer reviewed studies:

Comparison of weight loss and body composition cha...[surg Obes Relat Dis. 2009] - PubMed Result

A 10-year experience with laparoscopic gastric ban...[Obes Surg. 2006] - PubMed Result

I DO believe the band is working for many but I also believe it's failing others who HAVE followed the rules. As they say, there's good and bad in everything.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

No I don't want validation. You don't know me very well, of course, but trust me. You thinking I had the right surgery doesn't matter one damn bit to me. Don't mean that nasty either. Just that I've got a good brain and usually make up my own mind. I just meant that I don't have an agenda and I feel you do, is all.

HOWEVER

Wasa I just had an epiphany.

This is just me, of course.

But personally? I dont' really care. The stats won't change my opionion. The god of WLS (whoever THAT IS) won't change my opinion. I have my band, I've had it a year, and I LOVE it. I don't want a different surgery, and I would have never ever had the sleeve or bypass. So I'm lucky the band was there, even if it IS the edsel of WLS (which I am still not necessarily in agreement about)

As long as we each get what we need, who cares?

You're happy with yours, I like mine just fine.

Those who are still deciding will decide with our without our debate and will probably base their choices on things over which we have no knowledge or control, so it's almost moot.

Peace out, my dear. We can just disagree and leave it at that. I still like you even if I've exasperated you.

I do have an agenda. I want people to get to goal safely. Shoot me. I have an agenda.

[RestlessMonkey 7]

As I said, I love my band. Now I'm done for the night; NCLEX coming up on Weds (God help me)

I hope you never get disenchanted with the band, woman; you'd have to start a new life somewhere LOL

[Elisabethsew 50]

As I said, I love my band. Now I'm done for the night; NCLEX coming up on Weds (God help me)

I hope you never get disenchanted with the band, woman; you'd have to start a new life somewhere LOL

Good luck on the RN exam.

[RestlessMonkey 7]

Good luck on the RN exam.

Thanks! I can use all prayers, positive vibes, kind thoughts, lit candles, and sacrificed chickens.

[Pina3940 0]

More nonsense from people who don’t have a clue about what they’re talking about.

This discussion was originally “Band vs Sleeve”, but as usual, someone HAS to take the opportunity to take a shot at the Bypass or some other surgery that they have no ACTUAL knowledge of.

Wonderful. So you have friends who been able to completely screw up a $15,000 Surgery. I’m not as much concerned about how they did that, as I am wondering why YOU hang around with morons like that.

So,….let me enlighten you.

As I have had two of these procedures (Lap band and Gastric Bypass), I can speak to this from a bit of experience.

The first thing I’d like to point out is the misconception that the entire Weight Loss Surgery issue is that of a big WLS “Smorgasbord”, and that all you have to do is simply pick the one that tickles your fancy.

Wrong.

They are ALL different, and they are meant for different types of people and bodies. They ALL work (to varying degrees)…..but their long-term (and short-term) efficacy is dependant on some very individual elements. You really need to take the time and the effort to ascertain which WLS is right for you.

In other words, Your Doctor does NOT choose your Surgery. YOU do NOT choose your surgery.

The SURGERY chooses YOU.

As Wasa has said, if you’re good for the band, then, in most cases, you’re good for the Sleeve. However, there is one VERY IMPORTANT element that separates the Sleeve and the Band……and it has to do with Grehlin. The portion of the stomach that is removed during the Sleeve procedure contains the FUNDUS, which secretes Grehlin. And no, Grehlin is not a Character from Star Trek. Or the Israeli Ambassador to the UN. Or the second baseman for the Phillies. It’s a Hormone that stimulates HUNGER. It’s a complicated issue, but it’s an important distinction to make. Reduction of Ghrelin in the nervous system does not eliminate hunger entirely….but it DRAMATICALLY reduces it, and that is KEY to understanding why the Sleeve works. The combination of Grehlin reduction and restriction makes the Sleeve a very, very attractive option…an option that needs to be considered by anyone considering WLS.

The very same mechanism produces a similar effect in Bypass patients. The Fundus is NOT removed in the Bypass, but it is ISOLATED and does not allow Grehlin to enter the nervous system from that location. Hence, a DRAMATIC reduction of the appetite.

The Band CAN also have appetite reducing characteristics, although they are not NEARLY as pronounced as those in the other procedures. And the appetite reduction originates from an entirely different source, when it happens at all. Massive appetite reduction with the band is the EXCEPTION rather than the rule.

Jack (our Moderator here) indicated earlier that he has experienced such an appetite reduction. His experience was optimal, and really does not reflect the norm. He probably had a TERRIFIC surgeon who understood the mechanism and knew exactly how to place the band to be able to achieve this effect. MOST Surgeons don’t get this. They haven’t been doing bands long enough to get THAT good at it.

So, with the Sleeve and the Bypass there is a specific, physical, measurable change in the mechanism that produces hunger. With the Band, it’s a “maybe, but not all that often, and to varying degrees”. With the Band, the mechanism of weight Reduction is purely restriction of intake MOST of the time.

Someone left a reply on another thread that said “try the band first”. That’s stupid. That suggests that you can always change it later, and trust me, that is something that you DON’T want to do. You want to make the RIGHT decision the FIRST TIME. Weight Loss Surgery is not something that you “try”, like a new restaurant or a different auto Mechanic. It’s something that you research, thoroughly and completely, and DO. IT’S SURGERY. If you’re gonna be sliced open, you really just want to do that ONCE, right?

And while we’re discussing “do-overs”, I’d also like to address the idea that the bypass is not reversible, that it is a PERMANENT alteration to the body.

It IS reversible.

Now, it’s not something that is done very often, because it doesn’t NEED to be done that often. Most Bypass surgeries are quite successful. But, there are occasions when it is necessary or is requested. I have spoken to surgeons about this, and what I have been told is that there is a growing specialty in this operation; not growing a LOT, but growing. The reason for this is that as SOME people get older, the Malabsorbtion component of the bypass process becomes TOO much. I am told that this is very rare, but it does happen, and in those cases the bypass can be reversed. They don’t like to “advertise” the fact that it’s reversible, because they want people to see this as a lifetime procedure. But it IS reversible, and if you encounter a situation where it is necessary, it can be done. And as time goes on, with Medical technology advancing at the rate that it is, it will be an even easier process.

This is probably the ONLY real down side to the Sleeve. It is the most Permanent of all the WLS procedures. Once they slice that thing off, it’s GONE! However, I as have said before, that might be WHAT YOU NEED. And there are virtually no post-surgery complications with the sleeve, and the aftercare is….well, it’s NOTHING. There IS none. I think it is probably the most near-perfect WLS available thus-far….IF it is what you NEED.

There is something interesting I have noticed about people on THIS board, and others. People become SUCH cheerleaders for the procedure that THEY have chosen, whether or not it has lived up to their expectations. They think that EVERYONE should choose the procedure that THEY did. Personally, I think that many of them are simply trying to convince THEMSELVES that they made the right choice. If you say anything negative about the procedure they chose, well, you might as well have told them that their kid was really ugly. People LOVE to point out all of the horror stories from other weight loss surgeries, but they like to ignore the negatives about their OWN procedure.

On THIS forum, people seem to like to point out the bad stuff about the Gastric Bypass. It seems like everyone here knows 37 people who have had the Bypass, and all but 3 have died or turned into Republicans as a result of the Bypass.

My research tells me a little different story. There have been people that have died as a result of the Bypass, and there have been some ugly outcomes. But, as I have stated before, the vast majority of failures have been because the PROTOCOL WAS NOT FOLLOWED. Another portion of the failures can be attributed to idiot surgeons who are inexperienced, and have recently jumped onto the WLS gravy train. The Gastric Bypass has been performed now for nearly 50 years. Several surgeons that I have spoken with have stated that for the most part, if the proper surgery protocol is followed by the surgeon, and the post-op protocol is followed by the patient, then they can predict almost exactly what is going to happen with the outcome. To me, that’s a big plus. It’s been done long enough in such huge numbers that they KNOW the outcomes. Not so with the Lap-Band. It hasn’t been around THAT long; and, there are several different band products, and the procedure for putting them in has changed a few times.

“My God, we’ve been INVADED!!!”

Whenever I hear people rationalizing their selection of the Band for their WLS, I almost ALWAYS hear them spout off the exact SAME Phrase:

“It’s less Invasive”.

Gee, ya think so? They always use that same word. Probably because they got it from the Lap Band brochures that you are seeing plastered on every Bus Stop bench these days. It seems like using that word makes them feel “important” or “medically aware” in some way.

So let’s talk about that, shall we?

Listen, I don’t care WHAT WLS you choose….once they cut you open, hey….you’re INVADED. People really freak about having their insides reorganized a bit. Well…..maybe that’s what you NEED. I know that’s what I needed. Bypass exists for a REASON. Some people simply NEED the Malabsorbtion component that Gastric Bypass offers. There are those who seem to have the impression that the Lap Band (and other, newer forms of WLS) are “replacements” for Gastric Bypass. They are not. They are simply newer, different methodologies that MAY work better in SOME cases, and in others may not work at all.

Throughout our lives we have a LOT of changes made to our bodies; some people more than others, but we have Gall Bladders removed, Appendixes removed, knees, hips, and other joints replaced, Pacemakers installed, Tonsils removed, Double/triple/quadruple bypasses in our arteries, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention all of the plastic Surgeries people are having these days. You can even include the proliferating number of people that are being tattooed and Pierced in places that you don’t even want to THINK about. The skin is an ORGAN, and you’re drilling permanent pictures into it, and poking holes and sticking chunks of metal into it. You don’t think THAT’s invasive?

A couple of weeks after my Gastric Bypass, I was sitting out by the Community Pool, and a lady came up and asked me what kind of surgery I had had (my staples were glistening in the sun) I told her, and she told me that a couple of years before, she had had her SPINE replaced with one from a cadaver. I could hardly believe it, and she showed me her scar. So, cutting/pasting/sleeving/adjusting/bypassing is really NOT that big of a deal when you put it in perspective. I am simply baffled when I hear that some people cringe at having their stomachs stapled, but are perfectly fine with having what amounts to a plastic noose stitched, inside, to the top of their stomach with an adjustment port sewn on the inside of their skin. C’mon….invasion is invasion. Grow up, get USED to it, and Do what YOU need to DO.

And while on the subject of “invasion”, please allow me to point out that right here on Lap Band Talk there are two (count ‘em, TWO) threads where members of this board are discussing the ins and outs (sorry..) of their various levels of participation in ANAL SEX. And THIS is from a bunch of people who are squeamish about being “invaded”…. Puleeeeezzz…..

Again….if you DO the research, look at ALL the options, Choose the RIGHT Surgeon, then you will very likely arrive at the RIGHT option for YOU. And it has NOTHING to do with the level of success or failure that ANYONE ELSE had with any particular procedure. THEY are not YOU. You are not THEM. Different bodies. Got That?

Pardon me, but I am running dangerously low on Venom at the moment, and I have to run out and crush some kittens or burn an orphanage so I can feel “whole” again.

Have a nice Surgery.

“The Journey is the Reward”.

HH

Points well taken, however, why did you select the lap band

initially?????????????????????:sad:

[Jachut 487]

In my opinion - and it is just that, an opinion - the band is not on the way out.

For some strange reason the experience in the USA seems to be very different to that here in Australia.Why I have no idea. Now I am not saying that it is problem free here but the percentage of problems here seems to be a lot lower and it is still the preferred surgery.

Maybe it is because aftercare here is easily accessible and not expensive. Maybe it is because Australian Dr's prefer a conservative rather an aggressive fill schedule. maybe it is something else.

I know a number of people here that have had their bands for longer than 3 years and are very happy. I know of others that have had them a lot longer. Some have had to have them replaced but they chose to have them replaced not to revise to something else.

It may turn out that the sleeve is the perfect WLS surgery. It may be discovered in the future that there are problems with the sleeve that are not yet apparent.They may discover some other magical cure.Whatever.

Whatever the future holds we don't know. But in the meantime the band is a safe and effective surgery and it should not just be written off.

The most important thing as has been said many times before is to do your research and find the WLS that suits you. Pick your surgeon very carefully and then make sure you stick to the recommendations that your surgeon has given you.

I have personal feelings on this - I totally believe its the American approach to banded life and the American culture surrounding what is healthy and what is not, which is SO different to the Australian viewpoint, that is at the root of the high levels of band problem and failure.

I think that the way its approached there, leads to levels of restriction that our approach here just doesnt require and hence the problems.

I too know many banded people, some have had problems such as slippage and revision, and not surprisingly some of those people have been rather disordered eaters/dieters who've tried to rely on very tight restriction.

But I know plenty of people who've had bands in the 3 to 8 year range, lost all their weight, kept it off, never had a problem.

I'd choose it 1000 times over here, rather than removing half of an organ. However, if I were moving to the US for the rest of my life, I'd be sleeved in a heartbeat.

Totally situational, totally personal.

The arguments with this start, I believe, because people who are sleeved are trying valiantly to encourage people to make an informed decision. They're not rubbishing the band, but the ADVERTISING of the band. It is pushed as an easy, trouble free surgery and its just not. Bands work best for people who are not too ill, who can control their food intake, their exercise habits etc and will work with a tool that's 90% about user choices. It is not advertised that way and many many people are misled into believing its easy weight loss.

Its just the way it comes across is very anti band and is equally as misleading in suggesting the band's totally useless and obsolete.

Stats dont change my opinion either, nor do peer mediated reviews or any of it. Its all just flavour of the month stuff, here today, disproved or debunked tomorrow. I couldnt choose a sleeve when I got banded, there wasnt the option, it wasnt done then. So what's the point worrying about THAT? If I ever have to have my band removed, then I've got more options to consider.

Its the same as the whole low carb/high carb debate. People push all these studies "proving" that high protein's better, and that high carb was all a conspiracy. Idiots. Werent there a million "peer mediated" studies PROVING the low fat, high carb lifestyle was best back in the 80's. Of course there were. Just as there were supporting a high Protein approach back in the 60's and 70's. Its been dubunked once, replaced with another lifestyle and its back again. Are people honestly stupid enough to swallow it all hook line and sinker again? Do they really think something newer and better wont be on the scene in a few years?

That's what I think of studies and stats and scientific proof. I make my own choice based on my gut feel (pardon the pun) and I try to do things in a moderate way, not swinging towards any extreme, rather sitting on the fence or taking the middle path. That's why I ahve no particular feeling about having an "obsolete" surgery (hey, I'm thin, who the f-ck cares anyway?) or thinking that the sleeve will be absolutely problem free.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Jachut

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I have personal feelings on this - I totally believe its the American approach to banded life and the American culture surrounding what is healthy and what is not, which is SO different to the Australian viewpoint, that is at the root of the high levels of band problem and failure.

I think that the way its approached there, leads to levels of restriction that our approach here just doesnt require and hence the problems.

I too know many banded people, some have had problems such as slippage and revision, and not surprisingly some of those people have been rather disordered eaters/dieters who've tried to rely on very tight restriction.

But I know plenty of people who've had bands in the 3 to 8 year range, lost all their weight, kept it off, never had a problem.

I'd choose it 1000 times over here, rather than removing half of an organ. However, if I were moving to the US for the rest of my life, I'd be sleeved in a heartbeat.

Totally situational, totally personal.

The arguments with this start, I believe, because people who are sleeved are trying valiantly to encourage people to make an informed decision. They're not rubbishing the band, but the ADVERTISING of the band. It is pushed as an easy, trouble free surgery and its just not. Bands work best for people who are not too ill, who can control their food intake, their exercise habits etc and will work with a tool that's 90% about user choices. It is not advertised that way and many many people are misled into believing its easy weight loss.

Its just the way it comes across is very anti band and is equally as misleading in suggesting the band's totally useless and obsolete.

Stats dont change my opinion either, nor do peer mediated reviews or any of it. Its all just flavour of the month stuff, here today, disproved or debunked tomorrow. I couldnt choose a sleeve when I got banded, there wasnt the option, it wasnt done then. So what's the point worrying about THAT? If I ever have to have my band removed, then I've got more options to consider.

Its the same as the whole low carb/high carb debate. People push all these studies "proving" that high protein's better, and that high carb was all a conspiracy. Idiots. Werent there a million "peer mediated" studies PROVING the low fat, high carb lifestyle was best back in the 80's. Of course there were. Just as there were supporting a high Protein approach back in the 60's and 70's. Its been dubunked once, replaced with another lifestyle and its back again. Are people honestly stupid enough to swallow it all hook line and sinker again? Do they really think something newer and better wont be on the scene in a few years?

That's what I think of studies and stats and scientific proof. I make my own choice based on my gut feel (pardon the pun) and I try to do things in a moderate way, not swinging towards any extreme, rather sitting on the fence or taking the middle path. That's why I ahve no particular feeling about having an "obsolete" surgery (hey, I'm thin, who the f-ck cares anyway?) or thinking that the sleeve will be absolutely problem free.

Great post.

I agree with you, I think the band is advertised incorrectly. I also agree about the low carb diet. I do not believe in a low carb diet, I do believe in a low white carb diet.

We did not get fat eating broccoli, we got fat eating flour and sugar.

I think Aussies do handle the band differently than the US and I think that is a major issue to consider. Fact remains, we handle banding differently than you. For that reason I think the band is a bad option in the US. There, I wrote it. We don't take care of the band in the same way you guys do. This is a huge issue.

As long as doctors are handling things as they are in the US the band is going to fail. I think my band would have failed the Aussie way, but that's me. Not everyone. I just wasn't cut out for banding. But I do not believe I am the majority with band intolerance. Well, in the US I am but not globally.

So many thoughts, so little band width. ;o)