LapBand VS Sleeve??

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

also im a nurse and have seen several patients with the same issues. i did signifigant research on all of the surgery methods. the band was what was right for me. the sleeve or bypass may be whats right for them. the bottom line is that any of the surgeries can fail if the person isnt committed to change. ive seen banders fail as well.

You have to admit, you do tend to lose quite a bit of credibility when you claim you are a nurse yet you make it more than obvious that you do not know the difference between bypass and sleeves. For example:

she is one of many people i know in this situation that have had the sleeve or bypass. they lost rapidly initially but started eating and stretching there stomachs back out like they were before the surgery and theres nothing besides more surgery that will shrink it back down

If you knew anything at all about the sleeve you would realize this is quite impossible. This isn't an oversight on your part because you have written similar things in the past. The obvious issue here is that you did not do your research because you clearly have no clue what you are talking about in regard to a sleeve.

[JENNIFER7375 3]

i've been a nurse for 12yrs, and the only specific thing i said about band or sleeve patients is that i know people that had both surgeries and gained signifigant amount of weight back. and again i did extensive research on all 3 methods. the band was my choice. and i've read on all surgeries and passed my choice on that, anybody thst the band wasnt righy choice for and i hope they find what does. but plese do not make a back handed attempt at calling me a liar because i didnt come to the same decisions as you. if what you are doing works for you then great, but dont get defensive and attack people who dont follow the path you do. thats why there are different surgery methods, not particular one is the answer for everyone. and i will again say again that regardless of what choice you make if you cont to eat poorly no method will work long term for you.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

i've been a nurse for 12yrs, and the only specific thing i said about band or sleeve patients is that i know people that had both surgeries and gained signifigant amount of weight back. and again i did extensive research on all 3 methods. the band was my choice. and i've read on all surgeries and passed my choice on that, anybody thst the band wasnt righy choice for and i hope they find what does. but plese do not make a back handed attempt at calling me a liar because i didnt come to the same decisions as you. if what you are doing works for you then great, but dont get defensive and attack people who dont follow the path you do. thats why there are different surgery methods, not particular one is the answer for everyone. and i will again say again that regardless of what choice you make if you cont to eat poorly no method will work long term for you.

Getting a little defensive there, aren't you?

Look, this is what YOU wrote:

she is one of many people i know in this situation that have had the sleeve or bypass. they lost rapidly initially but started eating and stretching there stomachs back out like they were before the surgery and theres nothing besides more surgery that will shrink it back down

I stand behind what I wrote, you clearly have no concept of what the sleeve is considering what YOU have written. The sleeved stomach does not stretch "back out like they were before the surgery."

You may well be a nurse but you do not understand how this procedure works or you would not have written the above.

The one procedure with the lowest loss and highest regain is the lap band. One in four fail the band. The one procedure with the highest weight loss and least regain is DS. So it is all WLS types that have problems with failure and regain, none are excluded. No WLS fixes white carbs and what carbs is what got us fat. If we cannot change our lifestyle to fix the white carb issue no WLS will work long term. In the sense of the life style change I do agree with you.

I did not call you a liar and I do not care which procedure you had. What I *am* telling you is that the information you have repeatedly posted about the sleeve is dead wrong.

I am not attacking anyone because they did not choose the sleeve, point me in the direction of the post where I attack someone for not having a sleeve? Again, I *am* correcting your misinformation so others do not think that because you are a nurse you know what you are talking about regarding sleeves. You do not.

[Petalpusher 1]

I stand behind what I wrote, you clearly have no concept of what the sleeve is considering what YOU have written. The sleeved stomach does not stretch "back out like they were before the surgery."

This was taken from one of several sleeve sites which all give the same info. Note the sixth statement.

Risks

• Sleeve gastrectomy is more common in Europe, but most American health insurance carriers still consider it an investigational procedure and do not cover the cost.
  
• Anytime you have anesthesia or surgery, there is a risk of blood clots, other complications or death.
  
• Do not smoke. Smoking would put you at high risk for infection, blood clots, slow healing and other life-threatening complications.
  
• Complications can occur with the stapling, such as leaks or bleeding.
  
• You may need malabsorptive surgery – intestinal bypass or duodenal switch – in addition to your sleeve gastrectomy in order to lose all the weight you need and want to lose.
  
• The smaller portion of the stomach may stretch.
  
• Foods that you eat now may cause discomfort, nausea or vomiting after your surgery.
  
• Gastric surgery puts you at higher than normal risk of developing gallstones and gallbladder disease.
  
• You will not lose weight or maintain your weight loss unless you eat a healthy diet and exercise regularly. This is the reason we stress long-term follow-up with our center and your doctor.
  

[JENNIFER7375 3]

again I gave no specific I simply stated a fact. That I know people that have had all 3 surgeries and had significant weight regained. Period point blank. and sleeve, band or bypass a stomach that goes from being able to hold 1/4 cup of food to a full steak dinner has undergone some significant restretching. And again any of the 3 can fail if someone makes no attempt to change there eating habits. And you stated that " I claimed to be a nurse" where I come from that's another way of calling someone a liar. So on this topic were just gonna have to agree to not see eye to eye on this issue because I really don't care to debate any further with people that need to get to that level to prove a point.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I stand behind what I wrote, you clearly have no concept of what the sleeve is considering what YOU have written. The sleeved stomach does not stretch "back out like they were before the surgery."

This was taken from one of several sleeve sites which all give the same info. Note the sixth statement.

Risks

• Sleeve gastrectomy is more common in Europe, but most American health insurance carriers still consider it an investigational procedure and do not cover the cost.
  
• Anytime you have anesthesia or surgery, there is a risk of blood clots, other complications or death.
  
• Do not smoke. Smoking would put you at high risk for infection, blood clots, slow healing and other life-threatening complications.
  
• Complications can occur with the stapling, such as leaks or bleeding.
  
• You may need malabsorptive surgery – intestinal bypass or duodenal switch – in addition to your sleeve gastrectomy in order to lose all the weight you need and want to lose.
  
• The smaller portion of the stomach may stretch.
  
• Foods that you eat now may cause discomfort, nausea or vomiting after your surgery.
  
• Gastric surgery puts you at higher than normal risk of developing gallstones and gallbladder disease.
  
• You will not lose weight or maintain your weight loss unless you eat a healthy diet and exercise regularly. This is the reason we stress long-term follow-up with our center and your doctor.
  

Heh... this is old and incomplete information.

Find something a little more current.

The stomach does stretch a small amount, they know this and they compensate for that in surgery. Coming out of surgery your stomach is about the size of your middle finger. Over the next months it stretches to its maximum capacity of a small banana. This is why some refer to it as the banana procedure. By the time it is at its maximum capacity that is the size we want.

In the sleeve procedure they remove 60-85% of the stomach, (the fundus). The muscular portion is left, the elastic portion is removed. Muscle does not stretch the way elastic tissue does. There is no way the muscular portion of your stomach can stretch to it's original size as Jennifer claims.

Pouches can stretch, sleeves and DS stomachs do not. YOUR stomach is at far greater risk for stretching than mine is. Dilated pouch? Happens all the time.

The information you have posted applies to the old technique, not the current one.

Sorry, I know you were itching to prove me wrong but it's not going to happen. Not with... current, information. Bottom line, the sleeved stomach is far more forgiving than the banded or bypassed pouch.

But hey, thanks for letting me prove it again. ;o)

[Petalpusher 1]

Well said, Jennifer!

[Petalpusher 1]

Heh... this is old and incomplete information.

Find something a little more current.

The stomach does stretch a small amount, they know this and they compensate for that in surgery. Coming out of surgery your stomach is about the size of your middle finger. Over the next months it stretches to its maximum capacity of a small banana. This is why some refer to it as the banana procedure. By the time it is at its maximum capacity that is the size we want.

In the sleeve procedure they remove 60-85% of the stomach, (the fundus). The muscular portion is left, the elastic portion is removed. Muscle does not stretch the way elastic tissue does. There is no way the muscular portion of your stomach can stretch to it's original size as Jennifer claims.

Pouches can stretch, sleeves and DS stomachs do not. YOUR stomach is at far greater risk for stretching than mine is. Dilated pouch? Happens all the time.

The information you have posted applies to the old technique, not the current one.

Sorry, I know you were itching to prove me wrong but it's not going to happen. Not with... current, information. Bottom line, the sleeved stomach is far more forgiving than the banded or bypassed pouch.

But hey, thanks for letting me prove it again. ;o)

Let us see your "current info". Where are the current sites with the professional's opinions, since the ones I've read are so outdated. So far all you've done is talk. Give us some "current" sites with pros and cons to back up your talk.

[JENNIFER7375 3]

thank you petalpusher i was starting to feel under attack. the bottom line is that anyone that hasnt made the mental committment to weight loss prior to surgery is gonna fail no mater what option they have chosen. any good surgeon will tell you regardless of what surgeries done there are always gonna be people who fail cuz they just will not give up old habits. i wish everyone the best of luck. it dosent matter what method is that works for you as long as we are lucky enough to have found one that finally has. were all trying to get to the same spot our paths arent just the same.

[JENNIFER7375 3]

well wasabubble butt this is truly my last response to your attacks. since you enjoy website hunting on the sleeve so much why dont you find one that says there is no potential risk of weight gain or stomach restretching? cuz i sure as hell cant find one. and many of them say that you may eventually need further surgey( doudenal switch) depending on how obese you are. i never once said any of the surgeries were wrong i simply stated that i personally knew of people that have had all 3 surgeries and regained signifigant amounts of weight back. these are real life people that i've spoken with. and i never once said the sleeve and bypass were the same. only that i knew people that had signifigant regain after them. those are the facts im sticking to. again everyones choice is there own to make i chose the band and im happy with mine. lots of people are happy with their bypasses and sleeves and im truly happy for them as well. now you have a blessed day

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Let us see your "current info". Where are the current sites with the professional's opinions, since the ones I've read are so outdated. So far all you've done is talk. Give us some "current" sites with pros and cons to back up your talk.

There is a ton in the forum I am the Admin for Alex. Right here:

Vertical Sleeve Gastrectomy (VSG) Surgery Forum

well wasabubble butt this is truly my last response to your attacks. since you enjoy website hunting on the sleeve so much why dont you find one that says there is no potential risk of weight gain or stomach restretching? cuz i sure as hell cant find one. and many of them say that you may eventually need further surgey( doudenal switch) depending on how obese you are. i never once said any of the surgeries were wrong i simply stated that i personally knew of people that have had all 3 surgeries and regained signifigant amounts of weight back. these are real life people that i've spoken with. and i never once said the sleeve and bypass were the same. only that i knew people that had signifigant regain after them. those are the facts im sticking to. again everyones choice is there own to make i chose the band and im happy with mine. lots of people are happy with their bypasses and sleeves and im truly happy for them as well. now you have a blessed day

Get off your pity pot, nobody is attacking you. Correcting your misinformation simply isn't an attack. You made a claim, it was wrong.

I never claimed a sleeve person could not regain weight, you are redirecting the conversation and paraphasing things I never said. I was quite clear that I AGREED with you on diet changes. I went on to explain that no surgery type fixes white carbs. Or.... did you miss those posts?

You are looking at old information again regarding another surgery to lose weight. There is a history with the sleeve. It is also used for people who want bypass or DS and are too high risk for the long complicated procedure so doctors (since the 70s) have been sleeving these very high risk people until they got to a safer weight for the surgery they did want. Bypass or DS. A sleeve is significantly a safer procedure than bypass or DS.

They discovered people were losing a whole lot more weight than they expected so they started looking at the sleeve as a stand alone procedure. They discovered it does a heck of a great job and today it is also used as a stand alone procedure. It is the first half of DS, a DS stomach is made much larger than a stand alone sleeve. This is why your information is old. Quite frankly, there is a lot of wrong information on MD websites and most of the wrong information comes from doctors that do not do sleeves or have not done many. It is outdated and they do not update it.

This is what I am talking about, you most certainly did not do your research before WLS because had you done so, I wouldn't need to explain these things to you now, you would have known.

You keep trying to change the piece of information I corrected you on. The sleeved stomach most certainly does not stretch out to its original size. The bypassed pouch does not either, as a matter of fact. The bypassed pouch uses the fundus of the stomach and it is elastic and it does stretch and it can stretch to the point of a loss of needed restriction. But it does not stretch out to the same as before surgery and that was your claim.

[Jachut 487]

Oh boy, why cant we just live and let live?

Both sides have biased information. Neither surgery is perfect. Visiting the sleeve forum, its obvious there ARE after surgery discomforts and problems. All this talk of night coughing and heartburn and reliance on antacids doesnt sound like any ideal surgery to me, no more than than pbing and getting stuck do.

And its just plain freaking wrong that the band is only emptied out a bit when there's complicatins. Crap it is. You can let Fluid out of it to maintain your weight and stop losing, you can let Fluid out of it to fuel extra exercise goals, you can let fluid out of it when you've been sick and need to nourish yourself more. That's a stupid stupid argument and its just not correct. Adjustability of the band is a big advantage - and probably the ONLY advantage of this surgery over others.

I agree entirely that invasive is invasive, surgery is life changing no matter what and bands change bodies like anything else does.

We now have a lapband forum and we have a sleeve forum. Both procedures are always going to be discussed on both. I like visiting the sleeve forum because I'm interested, I can see the benefits of the surgery and there's people I like to stay in touch with. But I dont get over there and push that I have a band, I dont diss the choice that everyone on that board has made and I am so freaking SICK of the rudeness and condescension with which bandsters are being treated on this board.

Spread the information, please. Everyone needs the fulls story and I for one am not arguing that the band is perfect. But Steve and Headhunter in particular, how about a bit of respect instead of bullying?. Your opinions are just that - your OPINIONS. Not everyone wants to be forced to accept them.

Lets not forget either that when a lot of us were banded, sleeves werent an option. We're not all dickheads that did no research and dont deserve to be treated as such.

I'm really happy that something possibly "better" has come along! We always knew it would. But why the obsession to bash everyone with it?

Edited June 24, 2009 by Jachut

[JENNIFER7375 3]

what pity pot? ive been sticking to the same basic facts all day. that i know people that HAVE REGINED ON ALL 3 SURGERIES. and whether it stretches to the exact same size as pre sugery or 1/2 the size it was or 2/3 the size for that matter its still stretching and signifigant weight was gained back. thats my point. now wheres your website that say that you cant stretch the sleeve and gain weight back?

[Petalpusher 1]

No, Wasa, your forum is full of laymen's opinions. I want the scientific facts from professional doctors. Oops, I forgot...now you're saying the doctors are wrong. The following site was updated Jan. 2009, another I visited was updated April 2009. Back up what you're saying. There are news articles on your forum, but none relating specifically with the pros and cons of the sleeve.

Gastric Sleeve Surgery - Consumer Guide to Bariatric Surgery

Gastric Sleeve Surgery Risks and Complications

Risks and complications include:

• Leaking of the sleeve. The operation requires staples to be inserted into the stomach, and there is always a chance that the staples will tear apart, resulting in a leak. The leaking stomach acids frequently become infected and can cause serious problems that may require another operation or a drainage tube.
  
• Blood clots
  
• Weight may be regained over time, because the stomach can stretch.
  
• Unlike gastric banding surgeries, no foreign objects are left in the body during the procedure. With gastric banding, the band may slip, erode or become infected.
  
• Unlike gastric bypass or duodenal switch, there is no bypass of the small intestines with the gastric sleeve, so all nutrients are absorbed and very little chance exists of absorption issues.
  
• Wound infection
  

Since this procedure is relatively new, long-term risk and benefits are not known.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

No, Wasa, your forum is full of laymen's opinions. I want the scientific facts from professional doctors. Oops, I forgot...now you're saying the doctors are wrong. The following site was updated Jan. 2009, another I visited was updated April 2009. Back up what you're saying. There are news articles on your forum, but none relating specifically with the pros and cons of the sleeve.

Gastric Sleeve Surgery - Consumer Guide to Bariatric Surgery

Gastric Sleeve Surgery Risks and Complications

Risks and complications include:

• Leaking of the sleeve. The operation requires staples to be inserted into the stomach, and there is always a chance that the staples will tear apart, resulting in a leak. The leaking stomach acids frequently become infected and can cause serious problems that may require another operation or a drainage tube.
  
• Blood clots
  
• Weight may be regained over time, because the stomach can stretch.
  
• Unlike gastric banding surgeries, no foreign objects are left in the body during the procedure. With gastric banding, the band may slip, erode or become infected.
  
• Unlike gastric bypass or duodenal switch, there is no bypass of the small intestines with the gastric sleeve, so all nutrients are absorbed and very little chance exists of absorption issues.
  
• Wound infection
  

Since this procedure is relatively new, long-term risk and benefits are not known.

Note the last sentence of your quote. The procedure is not fairly new, it's older than the lap band. They've been doing it for weight loss since the 70s and for other reasons a LONG time prior to that. It is anything but new. The long term studies came out in June of last year.

Heh.. told you that your sources have outdated information and in this case, just plain wrong. ;o)

There is an RSS feeder that is updated on an hourly basis on the link I gave you. It's not difficult, really.

Edited June 24, 2009 by WASaBubbleButt