Racism Is Alive and Well

[plain 12]

I was going to post that racism sucks, and fatism sucks, and homophobia, etc....but that maybe the flaw is with us as human beings. It seems to me that as humans, we have a tendency to group ourselves into little cliques, whether that sorting is done by weight, religion, sexual orientation, gender, cartoon preference, whatever. Of course, that doesn't make it right, but it does make me wonder if, as people, we'll ever truly be cohesive.

I was going to post that, but BJean proved my point brilliantly by attacking somebody that was looking at the OP in a different way. From what I read, Beth wasn't being negative towards Debbie, or accusing her of lying.....just posing a question.

BTW, what does it matter who's black and who isn't? Don't you think empathy is possible between people who don't have anything in common? If we can relate only to those who are like us, we are doomed.

[BethFromVA 5]

That may be true in some parts of the country, but you couldn't tell it in the south where I live. I can't tell you how many times I have heard the n word since Obama got elected, or how many racist jokes I've heard since he took office.

I lived in Texas for 27 years, about as south as you can get; and trust me, when Bush was elected, much worse was said about him. How many times was he called a redneck or a cowboy (and not in that good way)?

Now if something was said to the OP, that would be a totally different story, one that I couldn't disagree with. But as it is, she is basing her story on conjecture on her part which is likely way off base.

[Jachut 487]

Hmmm, BJean I think its dangerous to assume that someone white will never have experienced racism because of what they are. That's rather an ignorant remark.

I can think of several times I've been abused by muslim men for being a white slut - once I was giving a man directions, he asked me VERY rudely "hey you girl, which way to...." I told him politely and then he spat at me and went on. his way. You only have to be on the street dressed normally in some areas of Melbourne for that to occur. I can also think of many cases of immigrant families whose children go through hell becuase of their parents' unwillingness and inability to merge themselves into a culture they consider inferior. Racism goes BOTH ways.

But in answer to Beth - does it matter whether its racism or "fatism" anyway? She was treated poorly for no fault of her own, and whatever form of discrimination it was, its hurtful.

[Laptastic 0]

Here's my issue with this...How does the OP know it was racism? She's blind, so is she making judgements of her own? How does she know the "offenders" were not also black? There is no way of her knowing, unless she asked them what race they were. To me, the examples given are just rudeness at most. To assume they were racially motivated is in itself racist.

[BethFromVA 5]

I was going to post that, but BJean proved my point brilliantly by attacking somebody that was looking at the OP in a different way. From what I read, Beth wasn't being negative towards Debbie, or accusing her of lying.....just posing a question.

Assuming I was correct, the weight issue CAN be corrected -- rather than having this poor woman with these horrible thoughts in the back of her head every time somebody looks at her sideways. What a horrible way to live one's life.

[Carrie_C 9]

I just think racism is just as bad today as it has ever been. No, we don't have segregation anymore, but it is still bad. I once had an exboyfriend break up with me when he found out I had a mixed brother. For no other reason, he said he couldn't handle it. I work with a black doctor. He's one of the nicest people I have ever met. But I can't tell you how many patients don't want to see him and wish to be moved to another provider's schedule just because he is black. And I am not assuming that, I have actually had patients tell me that. For some reason, they seem to think it's ok to tell me that since I am white.

[BJean 16]

Plain, if I thought that Beth and Headhunter were just playing devil's advocate, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But I don't think that's what was going on. I think that there was a different brand of discrimination going on. Both of them decided that because serenity is 288 lbs., that it most probably was her obesity that caused the person to move.

I find that to be very revealing about two people who seem to have very little knowledge about bigotry toward blacks and besides, I guess as far as they're concerned, everything's all about them.

Beth can't identify with the black thing and so she thinks anybody who complains about being discriminated against because they're black must be making it up. Particularly since she is sick to death of the whole idea of racial discrimination in America. And for gosh sakes, we have a black president, you losers. Don't you know that means we were ignorant enough to vote for a black man, a friggin' Democrat no less, so we sure can't still be a bunch of bigots discriminating against people with dark skin. What more proof do you idiots want, anyway?

Everytime I read her smart-mouthed claims of anti-political correctness, it sounds to me like she's just trying to bust the chops of anyone who isn't a white, or conservative or pro-capitalism or pro fill in the blank of whatever Ron Paul rant you like. She seems proud of the fact that she is anti-government, anti-liberal, anti-just about everything. And she seems angry at anyone who does like our Preisdent - and routinely accuses them of "drinking the kool-aid."

That is all fine with me too - except when someone bares her soul on this forum and makes a statement wherein she reveals a personal experience that she is trying to understand, and Beth thinks it's her duty to make her feel even worse. Then yeah I have a problem. Expecially when we're expected to think that it's cool that she's not pandering to someone - and she thinks it's admirable to speak her mind no matter who she insults.

And as for me, she sez I am wussified, all about pc-ism and pissy? Well, when it comes to people who post the kind of "everything is all about me and I'm all cool because I am different and the rest of you who are drinking the kool-aid" bull, then yeah, I prefer to be me.

And yep, I know Beth, you weren't talking to me. Maybe I should let you in on a little secret.... serenity wasn't talking to you either.

[Carrie_C 9]

But in answer to Beth - does it matter whether its racism or "fatism" anyway? She was treated poorly for no fault of her own, and whatever form of discrimination it was, its hurtful.

I couldn't agree with you more. Discrimination is discrimination, no matter what it's based on.

[BethFromVA 5]

But in answer to Beth - does it matter whether its racism or "fatism" anyway? She was treated poorly for no fault of her own, and whatever form of discrimination it was, its hurtful.

Apparently it makes a difference to some. I say no, it doesn't. However, I guess I don't see the situations as being these horrible experiences. One lady moved. Maybe it was because it was tight, maybe because there was room elsewhere on the bus. Not being there, I have no idea. Does it hurt those of us who are fat? Yeah, but that doesn't make it "fatism." It may just mean that the other woman wasn't physically comfortable with the seating arrangements. It was her right to move.

To me, "fatism" is where a plane kicks people off their planes for being too fat, humiliating them in front of others and denying them the ability to use the aircraft.

As for the bus driver who didn't talk to her -- again, there really isn't anything of substance in this assertion, to either claim it was "fatism" OR racism. Or ANY ism for that matter. Maybe he didn't hear her; maybe he has had her on the bus before and doesn't like her; maybe he knows the man who followed her. It could be ANYthing.

I just think it's terribly unhealthy to go around with one's feelings hurt all the time and reading things into scenarios that just aren't there.

Unless I hear that the woman who moved called her the "n" word or fatso, I can't assume it was anything other than that she just wanted to move. I've done that on buses before when there was lots of room for people to sit and somebody plunked down next to me. If there's enough room to have my own row, I'd prefer to have the row to myself. I have moved. It had nothing to do with anybody's weight or color or hairstyle or choice of clothing.

We can't change stupid people. All we can do is change how we react to them and let them affect us.

That said, I think to mistreat people simply because of their race is horrible. However, I think it enslaves people that much more when they see racism at every turn without ever thinking there just might be another possibility.

[BethFromVA 5]

I just think racism is just as bad today as it has ever been. No, we don't have segregation anymore, but it is still bad. I once had an exboyfriend break up with me when he found out I had a mixed brother. For no other reason, he said he couldn't handle it. I work with a black doctor. He's one of the nicest people I have ever met. But I can't tell you how many patients don't want to see him and wish to be moved to another provider's schedule just because he is black. And I am not assuming that, I have actually had patients tell me that. For some reason, they seem to think it's ok to tell me that since I am white.

Then those are horrible people.

I never said it doesn't happen, but sometimes stuff like what the OP posted lends credence to the possibility that it's worse than it probably really is. That's all I'm saying.

Societies will always have their idiots. We can't change them. But don't give them power, either, but seeing a racist behind every bush.

[BJean 16]

Carrie thank you for posting. I hear stories like that nearly every day. Discrimination and bigotry are alive and well in the U.S. We sure won't get past it until we are willing to call it what it is and work to recognize it and eliminate it.

[BethFromVA 5]

Plain, if I thought that Beth and Headhunter were just playing devil's advocate, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But I don't think that's what was going on. I think that there was a different brand of discrimination going on. Both of them decided that because serenity is 288 lbs., that it most probably was her obesity that caused the person to move.

I find that to be very revealing about two people who seem to have very little knowledge about bigotry toward blacks and besides, I guess as far as they're concerned, everything's all about them.

Beth can't identify with the black thing and so she thinks anybody who complains about being discriminated against because they're black must be making it up. Particularly since she is sick to death of the whole idea of racial discrimination in America. And for gosh sakes, we have a black president, you losers. Don't you know that means we were ignorant enough to vote for a black man, a friggin' Democrat no less, so we sure can't still be a bunch of bigots discriminating against people with dark skin. What more proof do you idiots want, anyway?

Everytime I read her smart-mouthed claims of anti-political correctness, it sounds to me like she's just trying to bust the chops of anyone who isn't a white, or conservative or pro-capitalism or pro fill in the blank of whatever Ron Paul rant you like. She seems proud of the fact that she is anti-government, anti-liberal, anti-just about everything. And she seems angry at anyone who does like our Preisdent - and routinely accuses them of "drinking the kool-aid."

That is all fine with me too - except when someone bares her soul on this forum and makes a statement wherein she reveals a personal experience that she is trying to understand, and Beth thinks it's her duty to make her feel even worse. Then yeah I have a problem. Expecially when we're expected to think that it's cool that she's not pandering to someone - and she thinks it's admirable to speak her mind no matter who she insults.

And as for me, she sez I am wussified, all about pc-ism and pissy? Well, when it comes to people who post the kind of "everything is all about me and I'm all cool because I am different and the rest of you who are drinking the kool-aid" bull, then yeah, I prefer to be me.

And yep, I know Beth, you weren't talking to me. Maybe I should let you in on a little secret.... serenity wasn't talking to you either.

BJean, I was going to give you one of my "long" posts that you have such humongous problems being able to follow, but frankly you're not worth the time OR the energy. Besides that, the issues you have are too deeply rooted in bitterness.

You can't debate; you can't argue facts; you can't back up assertions with proof; and you can't read minds because you got HeadHunter and me WAY wrong. The one thing you COULD do is put me on ignore, but for whatever reason you choose not to do that. Seems to me you can't do much of anything right. Must suck to be you.

When racism TRULY exists, I am vehemently against it. I just don't go for examples such as Debbie's and automatically she was being mistreated by the big bad white man. :wink:

[BJean 16]

Jachut I didn't suggest that Beth couldn't understand about racial bigotry period. I said that if she wasn't black she couldn't understand how it feels to be a black person in America. Everyone has probably been treated unfairly for one reason or other. Perhaps the way you were treated by a Muslim man in your country is similar to how black people are treated in America, but I doubt it. I haven't been in your shoes however, so I certainly can't know for sure.

To me, having an airline discriminate against you because you are fat, calling you out in front of others is not any more difficult than having someone refuse to sit by you because you are a brown-skinned person. And not having been there, I think it is stupid for someone to assume that they know better than the person that it happened to, whether it was racial bias or not.

Frankly I have a feeling there is some evidence of negativism toward my earlier posts going on.

[Carrie_C 9]

Carrie thank you for posting. I hear stories like that nearly every day. Discrimination and bigotry are alive and well in the U.S. We sure won't get past it until we are willing to call it what it is and work to recognize it and eliminate it.

True. What really bothers me is when other white people make racist remarks or tell me racist jokes. It's like it's ok to say things like that to me just because I am white too.

[BJean 16]

Beth: "You can't debate; you can't argue facts; you can't back up assertions with proof;"

Where's YOUR proof that serenity's feelings are not valid? Where is the backup for your assertions against serenity's claim of racism?

Where's the proof that you can debate? You're all about telling me how awful I am. That's proof of YOUR ability to debate?

Why should I put you on ignore? You're way too much fun. But you can put me on ignore if I irritate you that much. I dare you. :-)