Racism Is Alive and Well

[Nanook 2]

Seren...

I haven't read all the responses but have been involved with fat acceptance groups and most of them feel the same way. What can I say but weight seems to be the only acceptable form of prejudice today, I'm sure people will argue that. So it may not be that you are black or blind. There are some stupid people out there who act like this. It could be she had a germ phobia but most fat people have felt this from time to time, like we're sucking up everyones oxygen and smell. Actually I believe some people feel they will "catch" obesity!

Sorry if you're having issues, no one deserves to be treated like that. Take care Nancy.

[serenity55 15]

Thank you, Nanook. I have experienced negative comments and discrimination because of my weight, and that hurts a lot. But I believe that the incidents I posted here were racial. People will swear up and down that they have no judgments about race, weight, gay or lesbian rights, and in the next breath tell you that as long as they aren't forcing their beliefs on you, or as long as my son or daughter doesn't date or marry one or as long as a fat person is comfortable with their weight, , it's all right. And for all I know the woman in the van with me Friday could have been fat. She did have to squeeze past me to get to that middle seat! :tongue_smilie:

Debbie.

[Jaffa 5]

I will try to find the study and post a link, but you should know that a study I once read, concluded, that you could be any race and have a better chance of getting hired then if you were fat.

That may sound shocking, but it didn't surprise me one bit. For all of the protection and work we have done about being unfair and judgeing people by their looks, practically nothing has ever been done about the discrimination of fat people.

Discrimation based on weight has been proven to be the most common form of discrimination, but are they a protected class? Heck no.

I like to call these people antifatites.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Jaffa

[BJean 16]

Well you say that as if we can't help it that we're fat. We all know that all we have to do is push ourselves back from the table. How many times have we heard doctors say that? We are just a bunch of lazy, out of control, self-indulgent, gut-stuffing slobs.

I kid. The fact is, if the nutritionists/dieticians, doctors and other medical research people had any real clue about how we metabolize certain foods, what chemicals in our bodies cause us to eat or not eat, and we had a means to comprehend the depth of the problem, we could nip obesity in the bud. We could also stop people from becoming anorexic and bulemic. Right now, it's a guessing game. And a very lucrative one at that.

There is no doubt that fat people are discriminated against. There probably isn't one of us who hasn't been discrminated against because of our overweight condition. And you can bet that it is prevelant on every level of society. It's unattractive, it's unhealthy and it's disgusting to those who are not overweight. (And even disgusting to some of us who are equally as fat.)

I hope when a eureka moment is revealed, LBT is the first place it's made public.

[BethFromVA 5]

At the risk of being the lone fly in the ointment, I have a hard time believing that the examples you gave were due to racism. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I just can't determine racism from these two examples.

At the other risk of sounding mean, could the incident on the bus where the woman moved be due to your weight? We have ALL probably experienced people moving seats or looking petrified as we approached empty seats next to them simply because of our weight. I don't know how much you may weigh (I didn't look to see if you have a ticker), but perhaps it has to do with that. The other incident could be the same, where the bus driver didn't talk to you. I have experienced "invisibility" since I've been fat myself, and I certainly don't attribute it to anything besides my weight.

I certainly believe racism still exists, but I do no believe it exists to the degree that it once did. We are such a mixed group of people these days that those lines are quickly blurring.

[BethFromVA 5]

I have experienced negative comments and discrimination because of my weight, and that hurts a lot. But I believe that the incidents I posted here were racial.

What makes you so quick to assume it's racial? Because, sadly, simply based on what you've said here, it sounds like that is a choice you are making. Nothing I've read so far screams "racism" to me.

[BJean 16]

Just curious, Beth. Are you black? No? How could you possibly understand what real bigotry in America against black people is like if you are not black?

If you were not fat, do you really think you would understand what it feels like to get a side-ways sneer because you're overweight?

I find it rather odd that you would second-guess someone about racial discrimination when you have never experienced racism against yourself because of your skin color.

Or maybe I have it wrong. Maybe you're black and extremely Enlightened. Perhaps you're black and from experience and keen insight, you know for sure that most people who SEEM to be discrminating and bigoted against you because you are black, are really not doing it for that reason at all. Cool. You're black and you're smart enough to know that they're discriminating against you for a different reason than what might be perceived as race discrmination. Because lets' face it, if you're black and fat, and someone is rude and discriminates against you, it makes more sense that it's because you're fat.

Uh, huh. Yeah. Right. Sure. Tell us your story. Tell us exactly what qualifies you to make the post you did suggesting that Debbie doesn't know what she's talking about. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear it.

[BethFromVA 5]

Just curious, Beth. Are you black? No? How could you possibly understand what real bigotry in America against black people is like if you are not black?

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I just don't see it based on the OPs statements here.

I find it rather odd that you would second-guess someone about racial discrimination when you have never experienced racism against yourself because of your skin color.

Since when did racism and discrimination go one way?! If you think I've never been treated differently because of my skin color, I would tell you that you are wrong.

Uh, huh. Yeah. Right. Sure. Tell us your story. Tell us exactly what qualifies you to make the post you did suggesting that Debbie doesn't know what she's talking about. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear it.

I said MAYBE it had to do with her weight more than her skin color. I looked after I posted to her and saw what she weighed pre-op and now. I'm sorry, but people DO get up and move because we are fat, not because of our skin color.

Now IF she's being discriminated against due to her skin color, I think that sucks the big one. However, you are just more proof that if you want to inflame a situation and make it about race, it only serves to continually flame that fire which is nowhere like it used to be. People can find the devil behind every bush if they choose to view life that way.

Also, nice to know your ever-present bitchiness is alive and well too. :wink:

[BJean 16]

Oh thanks. That's brilliant. Nice to see your ignorance is still showing. To be honest Beth, I've been ignoring your posts because we just don't commuicate well and we certainly do not share the same beliefs or politics. But as far as I am concerned, this one takes the proverbial insensitive cake, even for you. And it rather pissed me off.

I do agree that there isn't as much bigotry as there was in the 1970s, but that sure's hell doesn't mean that it doesn't exist on a daily basis. And if you think it does, then I chose the right word. (See my comment above.) :wink:

[BethFromVA 5]

Oh thanks. That's brilliant. Nice to see your ignorance is still showing. To be honest Beth, I've been ignoring your posts because we just don't commuicate well

I communicate just fine. I even offer up facts to back up my assertions when called for. You , however, choose to constantly get pissy about what is said when it doesn't conform to what you believe. And you're right, that does not make for good communicating. As it is, I don't recall addressing you on this topic at all.

and we certainly do not share the same beliefs or politics.

Thank God for small favors.

But as far as I am concerned, this one takes the proverbial insensitive cake, even for you. And it rather pissed me off.

What DOESN'T piss you off?? Seriously, I couldn't care less about sensitivity and pussyfooting around and PCism and all that other wussified crap that goes on today. However, I made a perfectly legitimate observation: She MAY have experienced the seat-changing incident because of her WEIGHT, not her SKIN COLOR. And truth be told, I would be willing to bet a dime to a donut hole that the person felt a bit trapped sitting next to a 300-pound person, NOT a black person. I know how uncomfortable it's been for ME and the discomfort I've noticed from others when I'VE been the 300-pound person!

I do agree that there isn't as much bigotry as there was in the 1970s, but that sure's hell doesn't mean that it doesn't exist on a daily basis. And if you think it does, then I chose the right word. (See my comment above.) :wink:

It doesn't exist anywhere NEAR what it did years ago. I'm just saying that if one chooses to always believe something is based on race/weight/gender/sexual preference, then guaranteed they will always be "right" in their minds because that is ALL they'll see.

If I was supposed to jump on the "awwwww, poor baby" bandwagon and jump to the conclusion that this is all about race, I wish there was a disclaimer somewhere warning people. If there was NO other potential explanation, I'd say yeah, something was wrong here. If the lady who got up mumbled some disparaging remark about [insert racial epithet here] as she moved, I'd say yeah, she has a point. If the bus driver who ignored her told her to shut up and get to the back of the bus, I'd agree. As it is, it's simply her speculation that any of this has to do with race.

There are two types of racism: Honest, overt racism, and people living their lives as if everything revolves around race and racism. Both are prisons of a sort, but only one can be controlled by this individual.

[BethFromVA 5]

By the way, BJean, what color/race am I? HINT: My avatar pic is not me. Not even close.

[Headhunter 6]

At the risk of being the lone fly in the ointment, I have a hard time believing that the examples you gave were due to racism. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I just can't determine racism from these two examples.

I’ve been watching this thread, and I have to admit that the exact same thing crossed my mind as well. Only Beth was braver than I, and chose to voice her feeling.

I didn’t really see the racism in this incident either. What I saw was inconsideration and rudeness.

It is true that I am not Black, and I do not know what Racism toward a Black person “feels” like. You don’t get much “whiter” than me (blond hair/blue eyes). I know what the occasional Racism from Hispanic to White and Black to White feels like. I have certainly experienced that here in Southern California. I have experienced weight bias. I have experienced a LOT of things that would be considered discrimination on SOME level. Maybe there is some intangible element I am missing here that only a Black person could understand. But from the DESCRIPTION offered….I’m thinking not.

I am not suggesting that Debbie does not know what she is talking about. After all, SHE was the one that had this experience. However, based upon her description of what happened, I’m just not seeing the “Racism”. And, I don’t think her experience proves by any stretch that “Racism is Alive and Well”. Yes, there IS some racism left. We haven’t progressed THAT far yet. But there doesn’t seem to be any evidence (at least any that was presented here) that would suggest that there was anything racially motivated going on in this situation.

Stupidity is Alive and well. Rudeness is Alive and well. Inconsideration is alive and well. I’m sorry that Debbie had to experience this, whatever it was. I’m just not seeing it as racism.

HH

Edited June 17, 2009 by Headhunter

[BethFromVA 5]

I just see that it could have been any number of reasons for these two incidents. I guess I just have come to the conclusion that when one hears hoofbeats, it doesn't automatically mean it's zebras. Sometimes it's just horses.

[BethFromVA 5]

As for being "brave," HH, I appreciate it, but it's sad that we live in a time of thought police where people can't feel free to express their opinions for fear of being bullied or labeled. I, for one, couldn't care less about labels.

I said what I thought it could be, and unless proven otherwise, I still stand behind it.

As for the thought police, I believe that if people continue to be threatened or bullied or bashed into silence, then the thought police can make the world into anything they wish. In other words, if they scream it's all about race, and people are afraid to disagree for fear of being labeled or harassed, then they unwittingly play the game.

Now I preface this by saying I don't believe racism is anywhere as bad as some would have us believe; but let's face it, there are benefits to being perpetual "victims." Those who play the victim benefit, and those who pander to the victim further the idea that "racism is alive and well" and lurking everyplace you go. It just isn't the case. This country elected a black president, for crying out loud. Give it up already.

[Carrie_C 9]

I certainly believe racism still exists, but I do no believe it exists to the degree that it once did. We are such a mixed group of people these days that those lines are quickly blurring.

That may be true in some parts of the country, but you couldn't tell it in the south where I live. I can't tell you how many times I have heard the n word since Obama got elected, or how many racist jokes I've heard since he took office.