America's decline of morality

[BJean 16]

I would say that we are at a point where we could just agree to disagree but I don't think that either of us is that agreeable. LOL

I thought about recapping my religious background, so that you might understand a little about MY beliefs, but what's the point?

People always say that one shouldn't discuss politics and religion unless you want a fight. There is some wisdom in that statement.

[pattygreen 5]

I would say that we are at a point where we could just agree to disagree but I don't think that either of us is that agreeable. LOL

I thought about recapping my religious background, so that you might understand a little about MY beliefs, but what's the point?

People always say that one shouldn't discuss politics and religion unless you want a fight. There is some wisdom in that statement.

That's true. There is wisdom in that.

I would like to add that Christians have purely sincere motives when they speak to other people about their faith in Jesus. They don't set out to offend anyone with their beliefs. They simply desire to share with others what they know to be the truth about God and his plan for the world. It is because they love people so much. They love them enough to speak the positive along with the negative if that's what it takes. My motives are to let people know that God hates our sinfulness but loves us. He provided a way for us. So many christians want to share all the good things spoken of in the gospels with others, but don't want to share the things they believe the unbelievers don't want to hear. This does the unbeliever an injustice. All of the word of God is true. Not just the things that you want to be. Many can accept that God loves us and God cares for us, but can't accept that he hates it when we do thus and so.

Please feel free to share your faith and your background. I would like to hear about it.

[BethFromVA 5]

*applauds*

Don't drop your teeth, but I agree. :wink:

[BJean 16]

Very cool, plain and Beth.

[BJean 16]

patty: The problem with my providing personal information to you about my religious background and beliefs is that I am quite certain it would open the door for you to lecture me and deliver another sermon. I'm just not up for that. Suffice it to say, I have a strong religious and spiritual background. I have been saved, but even without having felt that, I believe I would have been destined for an eternity in heaven.

Now that's all you're getting that is personal from me. And that is more than I ever planned on disclosing to you.

Many people have made posts wherein they disagreed with many of the things you put forth about faith, the Bible and organized religion. I agree with most of them.

[BethFromVA 5]

Patty is the only poster I have on ignore in this forum, and it makes life much easier. I am a Christian and believe her type of drill-seargent style of "proselytizing" does no service to God OR Christianity at all. :wink:

[pattygreen 5]

What a joke Beth is. She puts me on ignore, cause she can't handle the way I say things, yet she 'feels' the need to come on a thread that I started so that I could speak to people who would like to talk to me. Either she should talk back to me herself or ignore me and this thread and get lost. Why does she come to where I am if she wants to ignore me? Go figure. Not only that, but she feels the extreme 'need' to point out on every post she places on here that she has me on ignore. wow!

[BJean 16]

Can't answer that for you, patty. It does seem rather odd.

[pattygreen 5]

patty: The problem with my providing personal information to you about my religious background and beliefs is that I am quite certain it would open the door for you to lecture me and deliver another sermon. I'm just not up for that. Suffice it to say, I have a strong religious and spiritual background. I have been saved, but even without having felt that, I believe I would have been destined for an eternity in heaven.

Now that's all you're getting that is personal from me. And that is more than I ever planned on disclosing to you.

Many people have made posts wherein they disagreed with many of the things you put forth about faith, the Bible and organized religion. I agree with most of them.

If you have been saved, then we are sisters in Christ. I'm happy to hear that.

I believe that many who have disagreed with some of the things that I have put forth about faith have either not read the scriptures, or they have been taught differently by mere human beings who are capable of erring in their teachings rather than by the Word of God alone. The bible is the only infallible word of God. You should never add anything to it or take anything away from it. (meaning your own rules and doctrines and laws) It's all we need to govern ourselves properly and in God's way. If mankind would live by it there would be such peace and harmony in the earth today instead of chaos and madness and controversy.

I pray before I get on the LBT and post anything. Because I believe that the bible is God's guidebook on living for us and his plan for the world, I do not want to say anything that is contrary to God's word. I believe that everything that I have ever posted is biblically correct. I can back up anything that I may say from the bible. In other words, what I post is not my opinions or thoughts, they are what God has to say on issues.

[BJean 16]

I know that you believe all that with all your heart, patty.

I just have a much more generous spirit with my beliefs. Yes, it is indeed how I was raised. But you'll never convince me that it is wrong. I suppose I am as deeply programmed as you are.

It seems that our basic differences hinge on the fact that you believe the Bible can be and should be taken literally, and you believe that you know how to interpret each and every word so that it perfectly reflects what God wants from us.

You say that you: "believe that many who have disagreed with some of the things that I have put forth about faith have either not read the scriptures, or they have been taught differently by mere human beings who are capable of erring in their teachings rather than by the Word of God alone. The bible is the only infallible word of God. You should never add anything to it or take anything away from it. (meaning your own rules and doctrines and laws) It's all we need to govern ourselves properly and in God's way. If mankind would live by it there would be such peace and harmony in the earth today instead of chaos and madness and controversy."

The point for me is that the Bible is not infallible. And people are fallible. That means not only me, but you as well. If we were to never add anything to it or take anything away from the Bible, we would never be able to relate to it within today's society. Besides, we cannot take it literally - men wrote it (whether divinely inspired or not) and men have re-written it according to their own beliefs and prejudices throughout the ages. Those men were not God. They were not infallible.

The second difference between us that is obvious to me is that you use your faith as a tool to get into heaven. I believe that what will gain me entrance into heaven is the way I conduct my life here on earth. I cannot believe that all of those millions of people who do not believe as I do, will go to hell. I cannot believe that a person who is a good person, one who strives to do good deeds throughout their life, but who has never been saved or Baptized, will go to hell.

Those are just a couple of things that you and I disagree on. There are more, but those seem to make up the foundation of our differing beliefs.

You think you are here to teach those of us who do not share your beliefs. I think I am here to help you see beyond your single-minded interpretation of the bible. I would very much like to influence you in a good way that would cause you to cease making the claim that your beliefs are the only Blessed beliefs. I would like to influence you to stop being so obsessed with the Bible and start being softer in your approach of how you speak to people.

[pattygreen 5]

Besides, we cannot take it literally - men wrote it (whether divinely inspired or not) and men have re-written it according to their own beliefs and prejudices throughout the ages. Those men were not God. They were not infallible.

I would like to tell you that the bible has never been rewritten. The dead sea scrolls, when they were found, proved that the bible had been preserved miraculously by God till this day. Nothing at all was changed in its writing. They found this when they compared those scrolls to the bibles we have today. Yes, there have been many versions of the bible copied, but they all say the same thing. An example of 2 differing versions:

The English Standard version- (John 3:16) For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

And now the New International version- (John 3:16) For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Both slightly different in wording, but meaning exactly the same.

[pattygreen 5]

bjean: The point for me is that the Bible is not infallible.

This is sooooooo true. So then why do you deny what is said in it? Do you believe that God would give us his words to cherish and learn from and then allow man to distort them? If he did that, then he couldn't blame anyone for not believing him. Could he? No. God would not allow his words to us to be altered or changed over time, for they are food to us. (2 samuel 22: 31) As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is flawless.

[pattygreen 5]

bjean: The second difference between us that is obvious to me is that you use your faith as a tool to get into heaven

The only 'tool' that I have is Jesus. Without him, I would be doomed to an eternity in Hell without my Father. I do not use him. He gave himself to me (and to all mankind) freely. It was a gift, and I accepted the gift.

[pattygreen 5]

bjean: I believe that what will gain me entrance into heaven is the way I conduct my life here on earth.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

[pattygreen 5]

I cannot believe that all of those millions of people who do not believe as I do, will go to hell.

There are only 2 destinations after death from life here on earth. They are in Heaven with God or in Hell without him. All throughout the scriptures, it speaks of how anyone who chooses to accept the free gift of Jesus as their Savior from Hell, can simply ask him to save them in prayer. We must have reverence for God. We must fear Him. (and by fear, I mean hold him in awe for who He is) Matthew 10:28 says (when he was speaking of christians who were being persecuted for their beliefs),"Do not be afraid of those who can kill the body but can not kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Hell."

Hebrews 4:6 It still remains that some will enter that rest (Heaven), and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their unbelief.