I don't want this to become a religous debate but I am looking for some questions

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

"Plain" has accidently hit on a basic issue that is a really good one.

Why, is it that people take the bible parts that make sense literally, and the parts that don't figuratively. Or why are some parts taken literally, and others are methaphorical.

It's the same concept of, "Humans are too stupid to understand something so great." It's really not, it's just an easy answer to something that is impossible and makes no sense.

It is too often changed to one or the other to suit what we need it to say or mean. Or to make something that makes no logical sense in todays context of knowledge, still have value or not look down right silly.

The bible is NOT the word of god, by the way. It is what many people wrote down at different times and different places, and then some people got together and pulled it all together into one book. They may claim it is the word of god, but if I wrote something right now and said it was the word of god, you would just laugh.

Very true.

Christ was crucified because of what? I mean really, what was the real reason. Of course I know what christ said, but what was the reason the guy who actually nailed him to the cross thought Christ had done? Bin Laden is a terrorist and killed a bunch of people, but if you heard his version, he isn't a terrorist at all? He thinks he is like the muslim version of christ.....LOL.

He hasn't killed nearly the number of humans that the Christian God supposedly did. When Bin Laden does it he is evil and a terrorist. When the Christian God did it, it's okay. It's different and even good.

If you really get down to it there isn't a lot of difference between terrorists and the Christian God's behavior. This is why there is no doubt in my mind that this was a book written to control the masses and it did the job quite well. Way back when only the priests could read and they carefully instructed the followers in what to believe and how to behave. Pretty effective.

There used to be a quiz on line, it's probably still there. It was a list of 30 quotes, 15 were from Hitler and 15 were from the Christian God. The idea was to figure out who said the quote. I am pretty familiar with the bible and I struggled (and failed) the quiz as did most.

[Jaffa 5]

Actually, Wasa accidently reminded me of my favorite of all questions.

Ok, it really only applies to a Catholic Priest as far as I know.

Why is that a Catholic Priest is allowed to read the bible and "interpret" what something means. But, you the Catholic follower are now allowed to interpret anything in the bible. Oh yes, you are allowed to read it, but you can not derive or attempt to derive any meaning from it. It is simply against the Catholic Church.

I have actually asked this question of a priest, and the answer I got, was basically, "you are ignorant, and therefore unable to understand or even ask questions relating to what the bible says and what it means". To ask questions is to attempt to interpret and to not ask is to assume you understand.

I practice what I preach (pun intended). I left the Catholic Church for good after this, and became a Luthern. You know the ones the Catholics cast out for not being willing to be just led around like sheep....LOL.

Someone else mentioned earlier the worst sin. I don't care what any of them say, the worst sin to me, is someone using religion for financial gain. Did you know at one time you could kill someone and be forgiven for it by the Catholic Church. Of course you had a certain amount of money you needed to donate directly to the vatican, but it could be done. How can anyone follow such a church. Tell me they have changed....well have they really changed? I don't know, nor do I care to try and figure it out.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Actually, Wasa accidently reminded me of my favorite of all questions.

Ok, it really only applies to a Catholic Priest as far as I know.

Why is that a Catholic Priest is allowed to read the bible and "interpret" what something means. But, you the Catholic follower are now allowed to interpret anything in the bible. Oh yes, you are allowed to read it, but you can not derive or attempt to derive any meaning from it. It is simply against the Catholic Church.

I have actually asked this question of a priest, and the answer I got, was basically, "you are ignorant, and therefore unable to understand or even ask questions relating to what the bible says and what it means". To ask questions is to attempt to interpret and to not ask is to assume you understand.

I practice what I preach (pun intended). I left the Catholic Church for good after this, and became a Luthern. You know the ones the Catholics cast out for not being willing to be just led around like sheep....LOL.

Someone else mentioned earlier the worst sin. I don't care what any of them say, the worst sin to me, is someone using religion for financial gain. Did you know at one time you could kill someone and be forgiven for it by the Catholic Church. Of course you had a certain amount of money you needed to donate directly to the vatican, but it could be done. How can anyone follow such a church. Tell me they have changed....well have they really changed? I don't know, nor do I care to try and figure it out.

The Catholic church has changed. They are nicer now when they tell you that you are an ignorant dumbass that isn't capable of understanding the bible. ;o)))))))

I poke fun at the church because I was born and raised Roman Catholic. I figure it gives me the right.

The whole pedophile issue still has me annoyed. If you look at the history of pedophile priests and how the church responded and what it turns out they DID indeed know about pedophilia... they should all be fired from the pope down and they need to hire smart people with some ethics.

[Jaffa 5]

I was raised Catholic, and was mostly able to overcome it...LOL

[plain 12]

The bible is NOT the word of god, by the way. It is what many people wrote down at different times and different places, and then some people got together and pulled it all together into one book. They may claim it is the word of god, but if I wrote something right now and said it was the word of god, you would just laugh.

So, I shouldn't believe what my preacher says.....instead I should believe JaffaSteve?

The literal / metaphor part is really a non-issue to me. Look at the parable of the Good Samaritan. Perhaps there was literally a man that was beaten and robbed and left for dead on the side of the road. Perhaps literally 2 people passed him up before a Samaritan did him a kindness........but, does it really matter if this really happened or if it is just a parable? We're supposed to take away the same message.

[volcano lady 0]

I have many questions, most I believe are unanswerable or shall I say would be answered differently depending on who you ask, even within the same sect of believers. But I am already hearing answers to some of these questions asked by some already knowledgable people who could double for the pastor of the OP.

Mine has to do with souls (as in saved because they are Jesus believers or not saved because they are not)

• Where are all the souls that aren't in heaven (or hell)?
  
• Are they with their remains? Adrift? Haunting us? Just watching us? Do they know what they are? Are they OK? Or what is it like?
  
• If you make it to heaven, can you visit earthlings? Would they really want to? Watch over us? How?
  
• Are souls shared, like if someone dies at or before birth? Do they go back into the pool to get another chance at life? If not, then there must a godzillion or more? Is heaven crowded? Or is the other place?
  
• Are souls conscience? If they die a non-believer can they change their belief after death to get to heaven when they realize their mistake? Will God still listen to them? If not, why not?
  

Like I said, this would get many answers, I wonder what your pastor would answer.

[Divis 1]

Okay here are my age old questions they are probably silly but here it goes anyway.

If Adam and Eve where the only two people around and they alone began to populate the earth, does that mean their children practiced incest? Then are we all related by blood? :thumbup:

If a murderer repents and gets into heaven does he bump into his victim? Wont that be awkward?

What if I get into heaven but a loved one doesn't, will I get to see them? Can you visit them in hell? I think I would miss them.

[wootsie73 0]

I have read this entire thread, and am always amused by the so called "lack of debate" the person w ho starts the thread says they do not want. It always seems to turn into a debate no matter what. I also find it interesting that many of the non-believers were raised Roman Catholic. Interesting indeed.

So, here is my question for your pastor, and I hope someone does ask him this. Why is that people with a lot of higher education turn into atheists? Is that they are so intelligent their brains have no room left for common sense and faith?

The original question was very good. I have to say though, many of the responses have been very debatable and on the fringe of ridiculous. God does have a plan for us all, but he also gave us a brain to think with. Therefore, we are able to make our own choices. When God created each of us, he had a plan for us. It is us that change the plan by the choices we make as individuals.

[plain 12]

I think we're overlooking the obvious here....namely, that in post #33 I may have produced the longest multi-post ever. And Wasa STILL didn't take my bait. Dammit!!

[Jaffa 5]

I didn't overlook it, I was very impressed.

Maybe the lapband causes writing enhancement?

[Jaffa 5]

So, I shouldn't believe what my preacher says.....instead I should believe JaffaSteve?

The literal / metaphor part is really a non-issue to me. Look at the parable of the Good Samaritan. Perhaps there was literally a man that was beaten and robbed and left for dead on the side of the road. Perhaps literally 2 people passed him up before a Samaritan did him a kindness........but, does it really matter if this really happened or if it is just a parable? We're supposed to take away the same message.

I think in reality you are using the bible and looking at it, exactly the way I do, if this statement is really how you feel. So yes, you should listen to Jaffa Steve....although, I am a free Jaffa and worship no Gouald.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

re: "be forgiven for it by the Catholic Church. Of course you had a certain amount of money you needed to donate directly to the vatican"

sounds like "carbon tax credit" and the Church of Gore....

re: "The whole pedophile issue"

I'm with you on this one Wasa....wonder how this relates to the 'celebate priest' dogma....

I am forgetting details now but I recall reading an article about a priest who was honestly and sincerely trying to help pedophile priests. He had a location somewhere away from children and priests would go there for "treatment". This was in the 40s, I believe. The good priest finally wrote to the vatican that there was no help for these priests, there was no treatment, nothing he did changed their desires. He warned the vatican quite clearly that these men should never be in a position where they are around children.

Of course, the vatican merely reassigned them to new churches denying they had knowledge that there is no treating a pedophile.

Wootsie:

I have read this entire thread, and am always amused by the so called "lack of debate" the person w ho starts the thread says they do not want. It always seems to turn into a debate no matter what. I also find it interesting that many of the non-believers were raised Roman Catholic. Interesting indeed.

Wow, that's pretty rude. The OP was quite clear about WHY she was starting this thread. She bloody well spelled it out for you. Was there a portion of the explanation that is difficult for you? Have you noticed that she's not debating anyone?

Why is that people with a lot of higher education turn into atheists? Is that they are so intelligent their brains have no room left for common sense and faith?

Funny, we tend to think of *some* believers as too stupid to think for themselves so they must turn to their religious leader or bible to form their opinions. We kinda think some of you are coming up short in the "common sense" area and that is why you must rely on believing the impossible. We have strong hopes for you that someday you too, can think for yourself.

Amazingly, common sense does not mean believing in talking snakes or that a butcher of a God can slaughter millions of innocents (including children) while calling it just and loving.

Sure hope that answer helps you out there. Since you are unable to come up with a question actually for the pastor here and you are just taking shots at atheists, can I assume you are another one of those loving Christians I keep hearing about? I'm sure you are proud.

The original question was very good. I have to say though, many of the responses have been very debatable and on the fringe of ridiculous. God does have a plan for us all, but he also gave us a brain to think with. Therefore, we are able to make our own choices. When God created each of us, he had a plan for us. It is us that change the plan by the choices we make as individuals.

Kewl Beans. Prove it.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I think we're overlooking the obvious here....namely, that in post #33 I may have produced the longest multi-post ever. And Wasa STILL didn't take my bait. Dammit!!

Some things are so easy they aren't worth the effort.

[Jesusislove 26]

There is a story in the bible about a King, named Hezekiah, who did pray and God turned it around for him. He was going to die, but God added 15 years to his life after he prayed. I spoke on a message about this at church. If you want the scripture send me a private message. I have not read the comments, just trying to answer your question.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

There is a story in the bible about a King, named Hezekiah, who did pray and God turned it around for him. He was going to die, but God added 15 years to his life after he prayed. I spoke on a message about this at church. If you want the scripture send me a private message. I have not read the comments, just trying to answer your question.

This still makes no sense. Either God knew he was going to grant this wish (thus not really granting the wish) or it is not true that God knows all before it happens. It can't be both ways.