Miss California and Gay marriage

[BethFromVA 5]

So she lied on her contract and that should not matter because she will answer to god for it? That makes no sense to me. Why even have a justice system then? To me it does not matter how the pictures came to light they are there, she lied, she broke her contract, done. Crown the runner up.

I think you're mixing up two things that I said. You seemed to be asking two different things, one having to do with lying to pageant officials, and one asking what God thinks about what she did. I said that it DOES matter if she lied. If she did (and right now it's not looking too good for her, though I have only seen one picture), then yes, she should lose her crown. As to the question about answering to God, that is for her to do, not be scrutinized by us for what she will have to answer to God for. They are two separate issues.

I would say the same thing if she had answered that gay marriage was the best thing for America.

I wish I could believe that is true, but you say it is, so I will accept that and move on. However, if she had answered "correctly," this would never even come up. I have no doubt about that at all.

The pictures are not the only way she has broke her contract. She has also been doing appearences and commercials without permission which is strictly forbidden in her contract.

I don't know what the rules are on this, so I guess I'll have to look into this. If I was her, I wouldn't WANT to represent such a screwed-up state as California anyway.

You say that the "majority" of American feels the same way she does. How can she be "punished" for something that is "main stream"?

She IS being punished by a small minority who are zealots on this topic. And yes, the majority (no quotes) of Americans do not support gay marriage.

What have I refused to acknowledge?

Well, for one, that the majority of Americans (again, no quotes) do not support gay marriage. Or that she should be commended for sticking to her convictions regardless of what you feel about the answer she gave.

If she was from any other state than California (except perhaps Massachusettes and whatever the other state is that has legalized gay marriage), this probably would also be a non-issue.

[BethFromVA 5]

Beth,

I think your true colors are showing for the times you're using the terms "fag" and "flame" etc...sounds like a homophobe to me!

I have called Perez Hilton ONLY a fag and a flame. Did you take issue with him calling Miss California a bitch or a c*nt?

My true colors is I hate that "thing" with a passion. He deserves far harsher than "fag" or "flame," trust me. I've been restrained.

[BethFromVA 5]

It is always interesting to me when people let terms "slip" out. Kind of like using the n*g word in any context.

Dear, there was no "slipping out." I specifically and purposely called him those names. And I have no issue in doing so. He's that and worse.

[Nanook 2]

I have called Perez Hilton ONLY a fag and a flame. Did you take issue with him calling Miss California a bitch or a c*nt?

My true colors is I hate that "thing" with a passion. He deserves far harsher than "fag" or "flame," trust me. I've been restrained.

I personally don't take Perez Hilton as personally as you seem to do. To me he's just some guy who has a blog spewing out National Enquirer type info. I don't read it myself or watch it unless he's in the news. I take issue with you using terms like fag and flame. Is your hatred of him because he's gay it seems that way when you use hateful speech like "fag and flame"?

[BJean 16]

You know Beth, there has not been a nation-wide referendum on the question of gay marriage. How could you possibly know how the majority of Americans feel on this issue? You know what you've heard or read and I just don't think that there has been a true test yet on how all Americans feel about this issue.

You may have decided that because the majority of Americans are Christian, that it follows that the majority of Americans would then vote for a ban on gay marriage. What you may not have taken into account is how many Christians do not have a problem with gays marrying.

If your source is some poll that a group has taken, it doesn't change my argument at all. Remember how exit polls aren't accurate? At least during some elections...

One reason I take issue with your statements is because you keep noting that when you use the word "majority", it is not in quotes.

[BethFromVA 5]

I personally don't take Perez Hilton as personally as you seem to do. To me he's just some guy who has a blog spewing out National Enquirer type info. I don't read it myself or watch it unless he's in the news. I take issue with you using terms like fag and flame. Is your hatred of him because he's gay it seems that way when you use hateful speech like "fag and flame"?

Like I said, did you take issue with him calling her a bitch and a c*nt, simply for stating her opinion when asked?

[DownInSocal 12]

Dear, there was no "slipping out." I specifically and purposely called him those names. And I have no issue in doing so. He's that and worse.

Got it. I am assuming then you see no problem using the "n" word to speak about an African American you dislike or the "g" word to speak of an Asian American you dislike. You can also combine terms like "f*ing n*g" and such to really drive home the point.

At least you are honest though. I will give you a point for that.

Normally when speaking about someone I don't like I don't talk about the color of their skin, their orientation, etc. Only those who hate do that. It is a hallmark of ignorance........dear.

It is interesting someone from Virginia of all states would be worried about how screwed up California is but I don't assume that you are toothless and backwoods like the t.v. portrays all Virginians to be.

[BethFromVA 5]

You know Beth, there has not been a nation-wide referendum on the question of gay marriage. How could you possibly know how the majority of Americans feel on this issue? You know what you've heard or read and I just don't think that there has been a true test yet on how all Americans feel about this issue.

You may have decided that because the majority of Americans are Christian, that it follows that the majority of Americans would then vote for a ban on gay marriage. What you may not have taken into account is how many Christians do not have a problem with gays marrying.

If your source is some poll that a group has taken, it doesn't change my argument at all. Remember how exit polls aren't accurate? At least during some elections...

One reason I take issue with your statements is because you keep noting that when you use the word "majority", it is not in quotes.

Okay, then prove me wrong.

Which state is it that rejected gay marriage, yet the judicial branch usurped the people's vote and instituted it anyway? One of the very few states which have it ONLY has it because of this detestable maneuver.

Look if a state like CALIFORNIA couldn't even pass it, that says a lot. Yes, I rely on information I read and polls I've seen, and it has absolutely nothing to do with whether this is a "Christian nation" or not.

The majority of people, if put to a vote, would vote against it. It's been struck down more than it's been accepted, and in very left-wing states, to boot. That tells me that mainstream America will not go for it.

[BethFromVA 5]

Got it. I am assuming then you see no problem using the "n" word to speak about an African American you dislike or the "g" word to speak of an Asian American you dislike. You can also combine terms like "f*ing n*g" and such to really drive home the point.

At least you are honest though. I will give you a point for that.

Normally when speaking about someone I don't like I don't talk about the color of their skin, their orientation, etc. Only those who hate do that. It is a hallmark of ignorance........dear.

It is interesting someone from Virginia of all states would be worried about how screwed up California is but I don't assume that you are toothless and backwoods like the t.v. portrays all Virginians to be.

Aren't you precious. When all else fails, make this personal against another poster.

For what it's worth, I'm a transplant here.

[BJean 16]

Beth you're the one who is speaking in absolutes here. Not me. I have no idea how it would go if everyone were allowed to vote on it. I tend to think that gay marriage would be defeated, but it is definitely not a given like you think it is. And it absolutely DOES have to do with Christianity and religion.

[DownInSocal 12]

Aren't you precious. When all else fails, make this personal against another poster.

For what it's worth, I'm a transplant here.

Or when all else fails pull out the disparaging name, fag, flamer, homo, n*g, g**k, and such correct?

I am sorry you are not being let off the hook for your choice of words. The thing is I really respected how well you articulated your position until you waived your true flag. Then the real reason showed. Again only those who hate use those terms. Those who do not hate cringe at them, regardless of what side they are on.

Take a close look at yourself and be really honest. You might be surprised at what you find.

Oh by the way my mother has a 4 inch scar on her head from where some jerk threw a brick at her when she was coming out of a known gay club. She was there doing charity nursing work. Go figure. He screamed fag as he was doing it. No hate their eh?

[BethFromVA 5]

Socal, this isn't about me, and you have no power to keep me on any "hook". I know you want to MAKE it about me, but it's not. And me calling some idiot who called this poor woman a bitch and a c*nt, yet YOUR issue is with ME calling him a fag and a flame speaks VOLUMES. So I guess that makes him a hater as well? Whatever, your answer really doesn't interest me.

[DownInSocal 12]

Socal, this isn't about me, and you have no power to keep me on any "hook". I know you want to MAKE it about me, but it's not. And me calling some idiot who called this poor woman a bitch and a c*nt, yet YOUR issue is with ME calling him a fag and a flame speaks VOLUMES. So I guess that makes him a hater as well? Whatever, your answer really doesn't interest me.

There is a huge difference between calling someone a bitch and using a derogatory term about their orientation or color of their skin. Wouldn't you agree?

For the record I thought he went too far and the question was not fair. He also has the right to free speech as you are practicing here. Just because you have the right to free speech though does not mean you won't be called on it being ugly.

[BJean 16]

DownIn: There are definitely toothless, backwoods folks in Virginia. Some of them have such an accent I would defy most other Americans to understand them.

But there are also Virginians who are some of the most sophisticated people in the world.

Which is another illustration of why it is downright stupid to slap a tag on people and declare that they are smart and good or that they are dumb and evil.

One thing I know for sure: the color of one's skin, or one's sexual preferences or the choice of one's church, do not reveal whether a person is good or bad. You have to dig much deeper than those superficial things to find out whether you're dealing with a person of quality and high moral values.

[luluc 6]

i do think the majority of voting citizens are against gay marriage.....even the ones that say they aren't.

my husband struggles w/the issue & his sister is gay - so while he is in a learning curve of understanding.....he still is not in favor deep down.

hey listen - i grew up w/the term fag meaning a cigarette; if ugly words are what people use , slang or otherwise - that's theirs to own. .... not who they are directed at.