Miss California and Gay marriage

[want_so_bad 0]

Someone asked me before what I would do if my son were to tell me he were gay. I'll answer that here: I would tell him that his choices in life are his and his alone, but that everything we do in this life determines the outcome of our eternal lives. If he desires to have sex with men rather than one wife as God had planned for him, then he has a decision to make. He can either live this life pleasing himself sexually or live this life pleasing God. God says that it is sinful for a man to lie with a man or for a woman to lie with a woman. I'd tell him to make his choice. The most important thing to me is if he has a relationship with Jesus and that he recognizes that the act of homosexuality is sinful before God. Also, most importantly is that he has asked God for salvation.

but would you love him unconditionally? would you be accepting of "his choice to live in sin" as you put it? would you walk down the street with him, hand in hand where all your church friends could see you touching the "sinner"? would you call him out on his "sin" multiple times a day, over and over and over? would you tell him how you were going to heaven and he was going to hell because he was a SINNER?? do you hug your nephew? do you tell him you love him? does it sound anything like this: i love you, you sinner! you are going to hell for being gay, you sinner. you homosexual sinner you." how can you be like that? i just dont understand where you are coming from patty. not at all.

[BethFromVA 5]

Wow, I just skimmed through this thread and let me just say :thumbup:! "I" believe like most that everyone has the right to an opinion, whether "I" agree with it or not. That being said here is mine.

"I" believe that if a homosexual couple wants to get married then so be it. "I" am no one to judge two people for wanting to love each other. "I" personally think that religion is a man made creation. I believe in God wholeheartedly and "I" don't believe God would want me to judge, discriminate or alienate anyone with whatever excuse "I" might use to justify it. "I" think that if you really have no problem with homosexuality than you should have no problem with them getting married and calling just that. After all "I" don't believe God will be as hung up on the terminology as we are. Furthermore "I" believe if you really want to protect the sanctity of marriage other marital issue should take precedence over gay marriage such as polygamist marriages to underage girls which are hurting hundreds of children. Then again polygamists stay out of view and don't really announce what they do to anyone and after all that's really what everyone is afraid of. Out of sight out of mind, right?

You say you believe in God, but do you believe in the Bible? I know some here don't, but if you do, let me throw a kink into the works here: Why did God destroy Soddom and Gomorrah? :smile:

[pattygreen 5]

but would you love him unconditionally? would you be accepting of "his choice to live in sin" as you put it? would you walk down the street with him, hand in hand where all your church friends could see you touching the "sinner"? would you call him out on his "sin" multiple times a day, over and over and over? would you tell him how you were going to heaven and he was going to hell because he was a SINNER?? do you hug your nephew? do you tell him you love him? does it sound anything like this: i love you, you sinner! you are going to hell for being gay, you sinner. you homosexual sinner you." how can you be like that? i just dont understand where you are coming from patty. not at all.

From your post here I can see that you certainly don't know where I am coming from.

I love everyone unconditionally, dispite their sin...... No, I would not be accepting of his choice to live in sin anymore than I am accepting of my own sins. Sin is wrong and should be stopped. We are ALL sinners, even myself..... I would hold ANYONES hand walking down the street and it doesn't matter if my 'church' friends are there or not...... And Yes, I told my nephew that the difference between his sin and a believer in Christs sin is that a believer in Christ acknowledges that what he is doing is wrong and admits it to God and confesses his sin to God and if he doesnt do the same, he will not be saved. (No matter if his sin is homosexuality or lying.)...... I do not bring up his sin of homosexuality when I see him, just like he doesn't bring up my obvious sin of gluttony when he sees me...... And, yes, I hug him and tell him I love him,...... and no, the conversation doesn't go like you think it does. Did that answer all your questions?

[plain 12]

As for the fool comment of mine. I have a question for you that I believe I know the answer to: Do you read everything in the Bible and interpret it literally? Do you believe that God came down and spoke to a few chosen people and told them literally what to write down?

I believe the entire Bible is inspired by God, not actually physically written by his hand. I do believe that God came down and spoke to a few chosen people......others were more indirectly inspired. Now, me personally, I don't believe the entire Bible is literally true. I think a great deal of it is literally true (I believe in the miracles, the gospels, etc), but some of it is more metaphorical (the parables that Jesus told, the book of Revelation, the story of creation, stuff like that).

But.....even though I don't believe the entire Bible is literally true, I would never go so far to call somebody that does "a fool". Mocking somebody for their religious belief is about as closed-minded, judgemental, and mean-spirited as it gets (IMO). I don't believe the communion wafers literally turn into the flesh of Christ, nor the wine into blood, but I don't call Catholics "fools". I don't believe that eating certain shellfish makes one unclean, but I wouldn't call the Jews "fools". I don't personally believe that dogs are filthy beasts and shouldn't be allowed into the home, but I don't call Muslims "fools".

So....you know, whatever. I think it's ironic that you'd call Patty harsh in her views, then proceed to mock somebody over a pretty trivial detail.

plain: Rick Warren

Ok, Starting to dig.....NOW!

[BethFromVA 5]

But.....even though I don't believe the entire Bible is literally true, I would never go so far to call somebody that does "a fool". Mocking somebody for their religious belief is about as closed-minded, judgemental, and mean-spirited as it gets (IMO). I don't believe the communion wafers literally turn into the flesh of Christ, nor the wine into blood, but I don't call Catholics "fools". I don't believe that eating certain shellfish makes one unclean, but I wouldn't call the Jews "fools". I don't personally believe that dogs are filthy beasts and shouldn't be allowed into the home, but I don't call Muslims "fools".

So....you know, whatever. I think it's ironic that you'd call Patty harsh in her views, then proceed to mock somebody over a pretty trivial detail.

EXCELLENT, Plain.

[gamyj 0]

I saw that movie prayers for bobby. It was a wonderful movie, and a true story. The suicide rate for young homosexuals are soooo high due to the whole "sin" factor. I think it is rediculous to think that those poor children are so beaten down by the beleifs of the church that they feel there is no other way out other than suicide. To me that is a clear indicator that homosexuality is not a choice.

amy

[plain 12]

To me that is a clear indicator that homosexuality is not a choice.

What about Bisexuality, Amy? Choice or born that way?

[Nanook 2]

Plain I found this on line written by a Kathy Labriola and after reading this I doubt you'll have any more questions.

WHAT IS BISEXUALITY?

Many people are 100% gay or lesbian, and are drawn sexually and emotionally only to partners of the same sex. Others are completely heterosexual, bonding in sexual and intimate relationships only with people of another sex. But what about everybody else? A significant percentage of people do not fit neatly into either of these categories, because they experience sexual and emotional attractions and feelings for people of different genders at some point during their lives. For lack of a better term, they are called bisexuals, although many people prefer to call themselves "pansexual," "non-preferential," "sexually Fluid," "ambisexual," or "omni-sexual."

The Kinsey scale of zero to six was developed by sex researchers to describe sexual orientation as a continuum. Heterosexual people are at zero on the scale, gay and Lesbian people are at six at the other end of the scale, and everyone in between, from one to five, is bisexual. People who fall at one or two on the scale have primarily heterosexual sexual and affectional relationships and desires, but have some attraction and experiences with same -sex partners as well. People at three on the scale are approximately equally attracted to both men and women. People at four and five on the Kinsey scale choose primarily same-sex partners, but are not completely gay or lesbian and have some heterosexual tendencies and relationships as well.

WHO IS BISEXUAL?

As you can see, there is no simple definition of bisexuality, and bisexual people are a very diverse group. There are several theories about different models of bisexual behavior. J. R. Little identifies at least 13 types of bisexuality, as defined by sexual desires and experiences. They are:

Alternating bisexuals: may have a relationship with a man, and then after that relationship ends, may choose a female partner for a subsequent relationship, and many go back to a male partner next. Circumstantial bisexuals: primarily heterosexual, but will choose same sex partners only in situations where they have no access to other-sex partners, such as when in jail, in the military, or in a gender-segregated school. Concurrent relationship bisexuals: have primary relationship with one gender only but have other casual or secondary relationships with people of another gender at the same time. Conditional bisexuals: either straight or gay/lesbian, but will switch to a relationship with another gender for financial or career gain or for a specific purpose, such as young straight males who become gay prostitutes or lesbians who get married to men in order to gain acceptance from family members or to have children. Emotional bisexuals: have intimate emotional relationships with both men and women, but only have sexual relationships with one gender. Integrated bisexuals: have more than one primary relationship at the same time, one with a man and one with a woman. Exploratory bisexuals: either straight or gay/lesbian, but have sex with another gender just to satisfy curiosity or "see what it's like." Hedonistic bisexuals: primarily straight or gay/lesbian but will sometimes have sex with another gender primarily for fun or purely sexual satisfaction. Recreational bisexuals: primarily heterosexual but engage in gay or lesbian sex only when under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. Isolated bisexuals: 100% straight or gay/lesbian now but has had at one or more sexual experience with another gender in the past. Latent bisexuals: completely straight or gay lesbian in behavior but have strong desire for sex with another gender, but have never acted on it. Motivational bisexuals: straight women who have sex with other women only because a male partner insists on it to titillate him. Transitional bisexuals: temporarily identify as bisexual while in the process of moving from being straight to being gay or lesbian, or going from being gay or lesbian to being heterosexual. Many of these people might not call themselves bisexual, but because they are attracted to and have relationships with both men and women, they are in fact bisexual.

While literally millions of people are bisexual, most keep their sexual orientation secret, so bisexual people as a group are nearly invisible in society. Gay men and lesbian women have long recognized the need to join together, create community, and to organize politically. Long years of hard work have led to significant gains in political and human rights, as well as a visible and thriving gay and lesbian community. Bisexual people have been much slower to come out of the closet, create community, and form political and social networks to gain visibility and political clout. Many bisexual people have spent decades working in gay and lesbian organizations, and in recent years, bisexuals have become more accepted as part of the Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgender community. However, the rigid dichotomy between gay and straight has caused many bisexuals to feel alienated and rejected by gay men and lesbian women, and in recent years many independent bisexual political and social groups have sprung up.

Many bisexual people complain that they feel like outsiders in both the straight and gay/lesbian worlds, and that they can't fit in anywhere, feeling isolated and confused. Studies have shown that bisexual people suffer from social isolation even more than gay men or lesbians because they lack any community where they can find acceptance and role models. Many gay men feel that bisexual men are really gay, that they are just in denial about being Gay, and that they should "just get over it." Many straight men are homophobic and hate and fear both bisexual and gay men, often victimizing them with harassment and physical violence. Many straight women reject bisexual men out of misguided fears that they have AIDS, and admonish them to "stop sitting on the fence and make up their minds." Bisexual women are often distrusted by lesbians for "sleeping with the enemy," hanging onto heterosexual privileges through relationships with men, and betraying their allegiance to women and feminism. Straight women often reject bisexual women out of fear they will make sexual overtures and try to "convert" them to being bisexual.

Both the straight and gay/lesbian communities seem to have only two possible models of bisexuality, neither of which represents bisexual people accurately. The first is the "transitional model" of bisexuality, believing that all bisexuals are actually gay or lesbian but are just on the way to eventually coming out as gay. The other is the "pathological model", that bisexuals are neurotic or mentally unstable because they are in conflict trying to decide whether they are straight or gay/lesbian, and that they just can't make a decision. Both models see bisexuality as a temporary experience or a "phase" born out of confusion rather than an authentic sexual orientation equally as valid as heterosexuality or homosexuality. Some people see bisexuality as inherently subversive because it blurs the boundaries, confronting both heterosexuals and gay men and lesbian women with sexual ambiguity. As a result, bisexuality challenges concepts of sexuality, traditional relationship and family structures, monogamy, gender, and identity. Bisexuals cannot conform to the ethics of either the gay or straight world or they would not be bisexual. Instead they must re-invent personal ethics and values for themselves, and create responsible lifestyles and relationships that serve their needs even though they don't fit anyone else's rules.

Some researchers have note that being bisexual is in some ways similar to being bi-racial. Mixed-race persons generally don't feel comfortable or accepted by people of either ethnic group, feeling that they don't belong or fit in anywhere, as their existence challenges the very concept of race. Like bisexual people, they spend most of their lives moving between two communities that don't really understand or accept them. Like biracial people, bisexual people must struggle to invent their own identities to correspond to their own experience. Forming a bisexual identity helps bisexual people to structure, to make sense of , and to give meaning and definition to their reality.

[wootsie73 0]

I think everyone has a right to say what thier beliefs are, so here's mine. My son is gay, he has a good job, pays taxes, gives back to the community with volunteer work and was in the service. He doesn't have the same rights as a person serving time in jail for murder!!! I think until he has the same rights as everyone else he should stop paying taxes! The goverment should work for him too! Also I would never have him married in any church, they think he's an abomination, as a matter of fact my whole family has turned away from the church and I for one will not be associated with them. I hope if there is a heaven, God judges people on earth the way they judge others.

In all actuality, none of us have as many rights as people in jail for murder do. Our laws are definitely in favor of the perpetrator instead of the victim, which is all of society. However, the Bible states in both Leviticus and Romans, both the old and the new testaments, that homosexuality is an abomination before God, so that is the reason the church feels the way they do. It's your choice if you turn your back on your church, but what's written in the Bible is what all churches should follow.

Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not something you are born with. If a person was born that way, then it wouldn't be so blatantly stated in the Bible that it is an abomination before God. God didn't and wouldn't call it an abomination if it were a normal thing for humans to feel. He would never make a normal way of human life a sin in his eyes.

Joan

[Nanook 2]

Thanks Joan I can see so clearly now!

[plain 12]

Heeheeheehee

Nancy, I was going to ask you this, but I didn't want you to think I was picking on ya (and also it's none of my business, but I'm curious)......but after the quiz:

Was your daughter born a pansexual, or is it something she realized later in life?

Edited May 6, 2009 by plain

[Divis 1]

You say you believe in God, but do you believe in the Bible? I know some here don't, but if you do, let me throw a kink into the works here: Why did God destroy Soddom and Gomorrah? :cool2:

Actually Beth I don't put much thought into what is written in the bible. I figure since God himself didn't write it how can I trust in people that claim to be prophets and are supposedly not doing it for narcissistic reasons. It's kind of like playing telephone. The bible has been altered so many times since it was started that I cannot in good faith believe ALL its pages. I know others do and find comfort in it and I think that's great, but not me. I have too many doubts.

[pattygreen 5]

Joan, I'm in total agreement with you. I'd also like to add that even if they 'feel' it is normal, doesn't make it so. 'Feelings' have nothing to do with right and wrong. A person may 'feel' worthless sometimes, but God made everything 'good'. So, how he 'feels' is not correct. It's just how he feels and thinks.

[BethFromVA 5]

Actually Beth I don't put much thought into what is written in the bible. I figure since God himself didn't write it how can I trust in people that claim to be prophets and are supposedly not doing it for narcissistic reasons. It's kind of like playing telephone. The bible has been altered so many times since it was started that I cannot in good faith believe ALL its pages. I know others do and find comfort in it and I think that's great, but not me. I have too many doubts.

Okay, fair enough. However, that story itself is part of the Torah, which has been the Jewish "Bible" almost since the beginning of time. Not quite the same as what you're saying, but okay.

[pattygreen 5]

The bible has been altered so many times since it was started that I cannot in good faith believe ALL its pages. I know others do and find comfort in it and I think that's great, but not me. I have too many doubts.

I disagree on this. Even the discovery of the dead sea scrolls prove that the words in scripture have not been altered over time. I believe that God has his hand on that to make sure that his truths do not get changed, for if he didn't, then how could he blame anyone for not knowing his stand on issues? If you can't believe in faith that "ALL" its pages are truly inspired by God, then how do you determine which pages to believe or not? This is how we get so many differing opinions on what is right and wrong from so many different christian denominations. Those who 'want' to have homosexuality acceptable to themselves and others will say that that was one of the pages that wasn't inspired by God. People pick and choose the rules they want to follow from the scripture and say that the declarations in there that they don't like are not true. Funny how something like adultry for example is readily agreed upon to be sinful. If I stated here that I am against sexual relationships with anyone but your own spouse because God says it is a sin and it is wrong, noone would debate me on it. But because I say the same thing about homosexual marriage, I get the heat. Point is, you can't pick and choose the thing from the word of God that you want to accept as God's word on the subject. Either it's ALL true, or none of it is. I believe it's all true.