Miss California and Gay marriage

[plain 12]

Plain,

Pansexuals and bisexuals may freak you out but they are real people.

"The Bird is the Word" Peter Griffin

I would certainly hope that they are real people, and not some weird cyborg-like impostors. I've seen the "Terminator" movies, and that future is not pretty.

But they do freak me out. I can accept being born attracted to the opposite sex. I can even accept that some people are born attracted to the same sex. Everything else seems like a choice (maybe I'm wrong). It kinda smacks of "I'll sleep with anybody" (bisexual) or "I'll sleep with anything human" (pansexual.....I know y'all tried to explain the pan-sexual thing to me, but I just don't get it).

[Nanook 2]

I'm not an expert but from what I've gathered from a real live pansexual and not the robotic type is that they fall in love with the person not the specific sex of the person. Maybe if we didn't have bodies but were spirits you would fall in love that way but there has to be some form of body contact but I don't want to get to graphic. It's still sexual but the sex of the person is not as important as the person. It is different than bisexuality. Did anything I say make sense? lol.

I believe there are degrees of everything. Maybe there's a bisexual out there who could explain bisexualtity better than I ever could.

[plain 12]

I'm not an expert but from what I've gathered from a real live pansexual and not the robotic type is that they fall in love with the person not the specific sex of the person. Maybe if we didn't have bodies but were spirits you would fall in love that way but there has to be some form of body contact but I don't want to get to graphic. It's still sexual but the sex of the person is not as important as the person. It is different than bisexuality. Did anything I say make sense? lol.

I believe there are degrees of everything. Maybe there's a bisexual out there who could explain bisexualtity better than I ever could.

Hey, it's not you......I'm just an old redneck and a simpleton to boot....so my lack of understanding is most likely all my fault.

But, loving the person, not the specific sex......heck that describes friendship, or siblinghood. You could love a person like that without ever having sex. So at some point, it is about the specific sex, no?

[Nanook 2]

I understand it's hard to relate to if you are not one yourself. It was difficult for me to understand at first too but I kind of do and the parts I don't understand I just take at face value.

[Nanook 2]

Hope this borrowed from Wiki helps with the defs

Pansexuality

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Sexual orientation in human sexuality

OrientationsAsexual · Bisexual · Heterosexual · Homosexual · PansexualGender-based alternative conceptsNon-westernized concepts of male sexuality · Third sex · Two-spiritResearchBiology · Demographics · Environment · Kinsey scale · Klein Grid · Non-heterosexual · Queer studies · SexologyListList (category) of sexual orientations LGBT Portal · Sexuality PortalThis box: view • talk • edit

Pansexuality, or omnisexuality[1] is a sexual orientation characterized by the potential for aesthetic attraction, romantic love, or sexual desire for people, regardless of their gender identity or biological sex. Some pansexuals suggest that they are gender-blind; that gender and sex are insignificant or irrelevant in determining whether they will be sexually attracted to others.[2]

The word pansexual is derived from the Greek prefix pan-, meaning "all". In its simplest form, pansexuality denotes the potential of sexual attraction to all genders and beings. It is intended to negate the idea of two genders (as expressed by bi-)

The adjective pansexual may also be applied to organizations or events. In this context, the term usually indicates an openness to the involvement of people of all genders and sexual orientations in said organization/event, as well as the pansexual sexual identity.

[edit] Pansexuality compared to bisexuality

Bisexuality is a sexual orientation characterized by attraction to both the same gender and the opposite gender, or genders (cf. Homosexuality is attraction to just the same, and Heterosexuality just the opposite - neither of these two mention men or women or how many genders there are).[3]

Those pioneering the term pansexuality often attack bisexuality as being "about two genders" and say that it does not specifically include people who supposedly fall outside the gender binary. Pansexuality has been described as a "means to skip the binaries and essentialism of 'bi'."[4]

However, many people who identify as bisexual are actually attracted to people who fall outside the gender dichotomy. These people, who could be described as pansexual, have a variety of reasons for identifying as bisexual, including preference for a better definition of bisexuality that doesn't include the number of genders ("attraction to people from more than one gender"), widespread unfamiliarity with the term "pansexual" as well as its negative connotations for some people.

Another proposed difference is that while bisexuals are attracted to both genders, or even to people who fall outside traditional gender boundaries, pansexuals don't even take gender into account as far as attraction is concerned. This could leave the attraction to be based on personality, or simply general physical attractiveness. This also applies to many bisexuals too, however.

[plain 12]

I understand it's hard to relate to if you are not one yourself. It was difficult for me to understand at first too but I kind of do and the parts I don't understand I just take at face value.

Riiiiiiight.....I think I'm with you there. I get the literal description, but I don't understand the nuances (I don't get the "more than two genders". I just don't).

But from the standpoint of your point that one doesn't choose their sexuality, where does that leave the pansexual? They would have to claim that they were born with zero sexual preferance (which is REALLY hard for me to wrap my mind around. In fact, wouldn't that kind of make them asexual as children?) or born with a sexual preference for everybody (again, it's hard for me to conceive of a child sophisticated enough to understand this). It boggles my mind!!!

[BeckyinTn 0]

Hey, it's not you......I'm just an old redneck and a simpleton to boot....so my lack of understanding is most likely all my fault.

But, loving the person, not the specific sex......heck that describes friendship, or siblinghood. You could love a person like that without ever having sex. So at some point, it is about the specific sex, no?

I am with you Plain. I just don't get it!

[pattygreen 5]

We are all programmed to 'love' others. But love is a decision that we make. I'm talking here about the love of a spouse. Someone special to you. When love begins, it begins as an attraction to the other person. Whether physical (their appearance) or emotional (their personality). People get married because they are what they call 'In Love'. The "I can't live without you and never want to be with out" you feeling. Some lose that feeling as time goes on. But because of the committment that they made to each other before God, they 'choose' or 'make a decision' to love the other person. Thus, why it is important to have a marriage ceremony before God whom you say your vows to. When a persons enters into marriage with another, they should go into it with the firm attitude and conviction that "Divorce is NOT an option". If there is a problem between the 2 of you, work it out. Most marriages end in divorce because one or the other or both are not willing to put their hurts aside and focus on making their partner happy instead. Yes, if we forgive our partners for their shortcomings and concentrate on their needs instead of our own, many marriages could be saved. There is nothing more powerful to change the way your spouse treats you than treating them the way they like to be treated. To be the 'bigger' person and despite how you have been hurt or treated, pour out your love to your spouse anyway and see them respond in kind.

Oh brother, I don't know how I got on that, but maybe someone needed to hear it. Oh well, the bisexual thing only confirms to me that you're not born gay. My sister was married for 25 years to a man that she truly loved. Then they divorced. She says she didn't get along with him over time. Anyway, she now is in a relationship with a woman. She said she didn't always have a desire for other women, but when she met her, she fell in love with her. That tells me she wasn't 'born' gay. She made a choice. The decision was hers. She chooses to sleep with her. She could choose to obey God and sleep only with the man she married, or stay celebate.

[Divis 1]

Wow, I just skimmed through this thread and let me just say :thumbdown:! "I" believe like most that everyone has the right to an opinion, whether "I" agree with it or not. That being said here is mine.

"I" believe that if a homosexual couple wants to get married then so be it. "I" am no one to judge two people for wanting to love each other. "I" personally think that religion is a man made creation. I believe in God wholeheartedly and "I" don't believe God would want me to judge, discriminate or alienate anyone with whatever excuse "I" might use to justify it. "I" think that if you really have no problem with homosexuality than you should have no problem with them getting married and calling just that. After all "I" don't believe God will be as hung up on the terminology as we are. Furthermore "I" believe if you really want to protect the sanctity of marriage other marital issue should take precedence over gay marriage such as polygamist marriages to underage girls which are hurting hundreds of children. Then again polygamists stay out of view and don't really announce what they do to anyone and after all that's really what everyone is afraid of. Out of sight out of mind, right?

[BJean 16]

God bless the elderly - they aren't functioning with all their faculties.

plain for the life of me right this moment I can't think of the guy's name. I will figure it out and let you know. He's the guy who interviewed McCain and Obama separately on TV. I may even think of it before I finish this post.

As for the fool comment of mine. I have a question for you that I believe I know the answer to: Do you read everything in the Bible and interpret it literally? Do you believe that God came down and spoke to a few chosen people and told them literally what to write down?

I believe that parts of the Bible are divinely inspired, but I do not appreciate that some people constantly refer to the Bible as a book that God wrote.

[Nanook 2]

We are all programmed to 'love' others. But love is a decision that we make. I'm talking here about the love of a spouse. Someone special to you. When love begins, it begins as an attraction to the other person. Whether physical (their appearance) or emotional (their personality). People get married because they are what they call 'In Love'. The "I can't live without you and never want to be with out" you feeling. Some lose that feeling as time goes on. But because of the committment that they made to each other before God, they 'choose' or 'make a decision' to love the other person. Thus, why it is important to have a marriage ceremony before God whom you say your vows to. When a persons enters into marriage with another, they should go into it with the firm attitude and conviction that "Divorce is NOT an option". If there is a problem between the 2 of you, work it out. Most marriages end in divorce because one or the other or both are not willing to put their hurts aside and focus on making their partner happy instead. Yes, if we forgive our partners for their shortcomings and concentrate on their needs instead of our own, many marriages could be saved. There is nothing more powerful to change the way your spouse treats you than treating them the way they like to be treated. To be the 'bigger' person and despite how you have been hurt or treated, pour out your love to your spouse anyway and see them respond in kind.

Oh brother, I don't know how I got on that, but maybe someone needed to hear it. Oh well, the bisexual thing only confirms to me that you're not born gay. My sister was married for 25 years to a man that she truly loved. Then they divorced. She says she didn't get along with him over time. Anyway, she now is in a relationship with a woman. She said she didn't always have a desire for other women, but when she met her, she fell in love with her. That tells me she wasn't 'born' gay. She made a choice. The decision was hers. She chooses to sleep with her. She could choose to obey God and sleep only with the man she married, or stay celebate.

Patty it seems to me you have many relatives who are gay. Some people don't like to be labeled so it's really not up to us it's up to them and we may not necessarily completely understand where they are coming from. Just like your sister I saw in the news recently that the actress Kelly McGillis has come out of the closet as gay. She is in her 50s and has been married twice, to men, and has had children. She had a lot of trauma in her life and her feeling was that God was punishing her for being gay, that's how she came to terms with it. She has now reconsiled the situation and feels free to come out and be at peace with it. The trauma did not cause her to be gay she was gay since she was old enough to know.

Anyway I would suggest, if you have not already done so seeing a film called "Prayers For Bobby". The film stars Signourney Weaver and it is about a very devout Christian woman whose son is gay and commits suicide. You might gain some insight from this but bring your tissues, take care Nancy.

[BJean 16]

Nancy that was a very nice post. I haven't seen the movie. But it sounds like one that I saw with a similar theme. If you saw it and it didn't touch your heart, you're be a hard person!

I have a neighbor who was married twice to men. She had been hurt badly (physically) by one and the other one ended pretty much due to indifference on his part. She met a wonderful woman who has been gay ever since she could remember. They fell in love and are now committed to each other completely. They've forged out a beautiful life together. They have a gorgeous home and take fantastic vacations and are really wonderful friends to have. They are the most thoughtful and caring people I know. They mostly hang out with people who are quite a bit older than they are because they've found that older people are much more accepting of them as just the people they are, without attaching labels or making negative judgements about their sexual orientation.

The first woman I spoke of may not be gay because she says that if anything ever happened to her current partner, she would date men again. So I don't know how her actual sexual orientation would be "diagnosed" but I don't have any intention of making a judgement like that about either of them. I accept them as the beautiful people that they are. How they conduct their sex life has absolutely nothing to do with me and has no impact on my relationship with them.

[BJean 16]

plain: Rick Warren

[Nanook 2]

Nancy that was a very nice post. I haven't seen the movie. But it sounds like one that I saw with a similar theme. If you saw it and it didn't touch your heart, you're be a hard person!

I have a neighbor who was married twice to men. She had been hurt badly (physically) by one and the other one ended pretty much due to indifference on his part. She met a wonderful woman who has been gay ever since she could remember. They fell in love and are now committed to each other completely. They've forged out a beautiful life together. They have a gorgeous home and take fantastic vacations and are really wonderful friends to have. They are the most thoughtful and caring people I know. They mostly hang out with people who are quite a bit older than they are because they've found that older people are much more accepting of them as just the people they are, without attaching labels or making negative judgements about their sexual orientation.

The first woman I spoke of may not be gay because she says that if anything ever happened to her current partner, she would date men again. So I don't know how her actual sexual orientation would be "diagnosed" but I don't have any intention of making a judgement like that about either of them. I accept them as the beautiful people that they are. How they conduct their sex life has absolutely nothing to do with me and has no impact on my relationship with them.

BJean,

That's the way we should be about people and most of us have a hard time. I too admit I struggle with things like Plain mentioned earlier "the nuances". I had issues when my daughter first announced that she considered herself pansexual I had a hard time grasping it. I just wanted her to pick a sex so I could deal with it in my head. Now I've learned that there are so many different types of people out there and as you said their sex life really is none of our business. It's best to just live and let live. Sorry if I rambled too much, lol Nancy.

[BJean 16]

As the queen of the ramblers, you don't ramble too much!

It is great to get the perspective of someone who the issue has touched personally. I'll be honest. I haven't heard the term "pansexual" before coming to LBT. I have heard the description of that kind of ability or desire to love, regardless of sexual identity, but never heard the supposed name for it.

I read the definition you posted and I can't imagine what the reference to "more than two genders" means, except to say that perhaps it refers to beings who are transsexual, or bisexual, or transgender, or heretosexuals or homosexuals. Although we usually think of "gender" as referring to male or female. However if you consider the entire definition of the word gender, it can include classifications of things.