Miss California and Gay marriage

[luluc 6]

Hehe, c'mon, lulu, don't mince words with us. Tell us how you really feel! :ohmy::thumbup:

HA!

i have too much time on my hands and can't wait 3wks to get this cast off my ankle...

[BethFromVA 5]

HA!

i have too much time on my hands and can't wait 3wks to get this cast off my ankle...

I bet. That's gotta be driving you crazy. :thumbup:

[gamyj 0]

I know what im about to say next is really gonna get u bible quoters crazy, but here goes anyway... many men wrote the bible... maybe with inspiration from G*D, but I can assure you that HE didn't sit down with a pen and paper and condemn homsexuality... and also many of the "sins" were made up again by man to rule people and control people in ways that the church saw fit. NOT G*D. you can quote scripture till the cows come home, but I'll live my life and conduct my moral code by the ten comandments which I DO beleive was by the hand of the LoRd. the rest I leave to some good story telling.

amy

[BethFromVA 5]

I know what im about to say next is really gonna get u bible quoters crazy, but here goes anyway... many men wrote the bible... maybe with inspiration from G*D, but I can assure you that HE didn't sit down with a pen and paper and condemn homsexuality... and also many of the "sins" were made up again by man to rule people and control people in ways that the church saw fit. NOT G*D. you can quote scripture till the cows come home, but I'll live my life and conduct my moral code by the ten comandments which I DO beleive was by the hand of the LoRd. the rest I leave to some good story telling.

amy

I didn't mean to pull a PG on you, I was just showing where many people get it from. It was said that people misinterpret it, and I quoted it word for word, showing there really is no wiggle room (for those who believe in the scriptures).

I have my beliefs, and they are mine. I only have to be true to myself. However, I do NOT believe in doing like some and bashing others with the scriptures. That isn't my place in life. I only used it as reference only, and if it came across as other than that, I apologize.

[gamyj 0]

thank you beth, i appreciate you saying that. I do not find you offensive at all, I do find PG to be somewhat offensive and hateful. I have seen her on other posts and she is very neg. always. I feel like she's a very unhappy woman.

I don't ever mind differences in opinion, and I respect your opinion as it isn;t laced with hate. so again thanks!

I am kind of curious to see how PG goes off on my post, im sure people like me drive her crazy.lol

amy

[BJean 16]

Beth: "... and I quoted it word for word, showing there really is no wiggle room (for those who believe in the scriptures)."

But Beth the "wiggle room" comes into play when you speak to the fact that God didn't write the Bible. The men of the cloth back then were very motivated to ensure that their flock grew. The best way to do that was to claim that God said that there was no room, no tolerance, for homosexuality, and to condemn anyone who did not go forth and multiply. They said a man and a woman should marry and produce offspring and it appears that they were motivated for selfish reasons.

If we do our homework and read the scientific data that does show some chromosome differences between homosexuals and heretosexuals, then one who believes that God is the creator of all things would reasonably conclude that God is not the one who condemns those that he created, it is man who does the condemnation.

To me this persecution of some of God's children is not righteous and it is despicable.

[BethFromVA 5]

Beth: "... and I quoted it word for word, showing there really is no wiggle room (for those who believe in the scriptures)."

But Beth the "wiggle room" comes into play when you speak to the fact that God didn't write the Bible. The men of the cloth back then were very motivated to ensure that their flock grew. The best way to do that was to claim that God said that there was no room, no tolerance, for homosexuality, and to condemn anyone who did not go forth and multiply. They said a man and a woman should marry and produce offspring and it appears that they were motivated for selfish reasons.

If we do our homework and read the scientific data that does show some chromosome differences between homosexuals and heretosexuals, then one who believes that God is the creator of all things would reasonably conclude that God is not the one who condemns those that he created, it is man who does the condemnation.

To me this persecution of some of God's children is not righteous and it is despicable.

There are those of us who believe the Bible is inspired by God. I guess the truth will come out when we die and find out for ourselves, but for me, as I said, I don't answer to man on this issue.

As for persecution, all sorts of God's children get persecuted by others, and the one group that seems to be most accepted against is Christians. I say that not to start a new thread within this one, but TONS of groups don't accept MY way of life, and I don't see the same people fighting for my right to keep my beliefs intact.

As for homosexuality, in many (most?) cases I do believe there is something different there. I believe if a child of 3 years old is attracted to those of their own kind, that is not a choice. However, "being gay" seems to be the new thing these days, especially in middle- and high-schools. I remember my daughter remarking on it when she was going.

As for condemning anybody, I can speak for myself when I say that I don't make an issue of it. PG may condemn people for what they do, but for me, again, that's not my job. I may barely make it into heaven myself for all I know, so it's sure not up to me to condemn anybody else.

Like I said, I have my belief on the matter, would (and have) vote(d) accordingly if/when brought before the people, and don't answer to anybody else except myself and my God. If me exercising my right in the voting booth makes it dispicable to you, so be it. I can still sleep at night, promise. :thumbup:

[Nanook 2]

I believe people do not pretend to be gay or do it for funsies! Why would they? I am straight and there is no way I would be attracted to another woman it's not part of my being. I know of many men and women who are homosexual, bisexual even pansexual and it took a while for them to come out of the closet for many reasons. It's not that they just woke up one day and said "hey I think I'll be gay today because it's so much fun! In our world it takes a lot of courage to come out because of the hatred and discrimination they face.

To use the bible for instruction on how one should view homosexuality seems silly to me as there are so many wacky things that people are instructed to do. If we followed everything the bible said if we were on our period we shouldn't attend church and should live that week in a menstral hut!

I think in some areas of the country (world) being homosexual is not as frowned upon as it is possibly in the "bible belt". So in an area that is more open and understanding of homosexuality younger people can come out to others earlier and feel good about themselves. They also have found support in groups at the schools whether they are social or support groups. Being that it's "prom season" many of these kids have to fight with their school just to bring their same sex partner as their prom date. Some schools don't allow it while more open minded schools do and then there are some schools who have separate proms. Anyway just putting in my two cents:smile:

[luluc 6]

As for persecution, all sorts of God's children get persecuted by others, and the one group that seems to be most accepted against is Christians.

oh beth!!!

holocaust? that's persecution.....not those who are just about tired of the religious dogma who want to set laws for how adults should live their lives. why on earth shoud the "collective 'we" have to abide by them? you get your vote - others get theirs...and it will be tug/war .. blah

christians are pretty darn organized & effective - see prop 8.

pretty sure those who took for granted that - that bill wouldn't pass won't pre-judge the christian power; so therefore they are not persecuted.....that derives from a lack of power & influence and last i checked, they still got it rockin.

[BJean 16]

Beth: "As for persecution, all sorts of God's children get persecuted by others, and the one group that seems to be most accepted against is Christians. I say that not to start a new thread within this one, but TONS of groups don't accept MY way of life, and I don't see the same people fighting for my right to keep my beliefs intact."

No one that I know of is fighting against your right to believe whatever you believe spiritually or religiously and no one is working to take away your right to live a Christian life, whatever that entails - that I know of. Is there someone who wants to take away your right to believe in Christianity or the Bible? How are you persecuted?

Beth: "Like I said, I have my belief on the matter, would (and have) vote(d) accordingly if/when brought before the people, and don't answer to anybody else except myself and my God. If me exercising my right in the voting booth makes it dispicable to you, so be it. I can still sleep at night, promise."

You're turning what I said into something that I did not intend. I have no qualms with the way you vote - or whatever you choose to do when you close the curtain when you're in a voting booth. :thumbup: It is in no way dispicable to me however you choose to cast your votes. Discrimination against a segment of society when it comes to their Constitutionally guaranteed rights is what I find dispicable and unacceptable. I'm afraid I do not understand your rant that tore off in a direction that assumes I accused you of being dispicable because of your voting choices. :ohmy: I guess what you're trying to say is that you want to vote to take away the rights of some people, which they are guaranteed by the Constitution, just because they are homosexuals. Is that what you were trying to tell us?

And, no worries, I am quite sure that nothing I say keeps you awake at night. (I might wish that some of the things you've said to me kept you awake at night though.) :w00t:

[BJean 16]

Nancy you bring up some good points. One thing that we might just be getting better at is that there aren't so many incidents of idiots physically attacking homosexuals today, like there used to be.

Because homosexuality is being discussed more openly and it does not carry the stigma that it once did (except perhaps with right wing extremists), maybe the young kids think it is cool to play around with it. I'm not a teenager and am not living with one in my household so I have no idea what is really going on in that age group these days.

But a gay friend of mine who was consistently persecuted while he was growing up, said that all of the psychiatrists and psychologists that he has seen have said that it is not unusual for most people to, at some time in their life, have homosexual thoughts and curiosity. They told him that if you have a healthy self-esteem and do find your own body attractive, how could you look at the body of someone of your own sex as being unattractive or ugly? It may be that teenagers today are confused and are trying to figure the whole thing out.

I am glad that gay people are finding support in their communities these days rather than the condemnation and life threatening situations they were subjected to when I was a teenager.

[BJean 16]

right on, luluc!

[DownInSocal 12]

oh beth!!!

holocaust? that's persecution.....not those who are just about tired of the religious dogma who want to set laws for how adults should live their lives. why on earth shoud the "collective 'we" have to abide by them? you get your vote - others get theirs...and it will be tug/war .. blah

christians are pretty darn organized & effective - see prop 8.

pretty sure those who took for granted that - that bill wouldn't pass won't pre-judge the christian power; so therefore they are not persecuted.....that derives from a lack of power & influence and last i checked, they still got it rockin.

Here, here.

I loved how the prop 8 folks scared the bejesus out of everyone. Made it seem like a school issue. One person I work with thought it was about school funding because every single sign had a big picture of a school on it.

[pattygreen 5]

I know what im about to say next is really gonna get u bible quoters crazy, but here goes anyway... many men wrote the bible... maybe with inspiration from G*D, but I can assure you that HE didn't sit down with a pen and paper and condemn homsexuality... and also many of the "sins" were made up again by man to rule people and control people in ways that the church saw fit. NOT G*D. you can quote scripture till the cows come home, but I'll live my life and conduct my moral code by the ten comandments which I DO beleive was by the hand of the LoRd. the rest I leave to some good story telling.

amy

The same person who penned the ten commandments for God also penned the scripture for God about homosexuality being an abomination unto him. Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Old Testament. So, what you're saying in a sense is you'll pick and choose the things you want to adhere to and those you don't want to adhere to you toss out?

[pattygreen 5]

thank you beth, i appreciate you saying that. I do not find you offensive at all, I do find PG to be somewhat offensive and hateful. I have seen her on other posts and she is very neg. always. I feel like she's a very unhappy woman.

I don't ever mind differences in opinion, and I respect your opinion as it isn;t laced with hate. so again thanks!

I am kind of curious to see how PG goes off on my post, im sure people like me drive her crazy.lol

amy

I'm sorry that you find me offensive and hateful. I'm really not. I am a loving and caring person, for real. I truly have a love for the souls of mankind. I believe that God wants everyone who knows his word to reveal how he feels about right and wrong. I may seem judgmental to some, but I believe that is because I state my beliefs without doubt. I don't place judgment on anyone for only God can judge the heart of man, I can only call things as I see them. If God says that homosexuality is a sin, I believe him and stand up for what I believe. If you are gay and ask me why I won't be accepting of your gay lifestyle I will tell you that it is for the same reason I won't be accepting of someone stealing from others or why I wont be accepting of premarital sex, or lying or gluttony. They are all sins that God has clearly stated in the scriptures and God hates sin. ( Let me clarify. He doesn't hate the sinner, nor do I, or any other christians out there. He hates the sin.) I get tired of people labeling christians as haters or homophobes. I suppose if people don't agree with the christians viewpoint, they have to come up with some reason for why christians feel the way they do, so they say we're hateful or we fear homosexuals. Not true though.

BTW, people like you don't drive me crazy. There are many people who don't believe the same as I do and so I pray for them and hope God will show them the truth.