Miss California and Gay marriage

[luluc 6]

I believe two people living together should be able to legally and contractually determine that ahead of time, which then trumps any family wishes. They should have that right to determine things between themselves, and that should be able to be done legally.

beth - are you therefore in favor of civil unions?

it's the legality of shared rights under the law that many same sex couples are looking for.

my SIL & her partner - longer together than me & dh, have had legal documents drawn up for medical/property/asset management because they don't live in a state that recognizes gay "marriages".

what do you define marriage as? i really struggle w/that term because i truly believe this has fallen under a religious umbrella that even heteros don't share.

[BethFromVA 5]

beth - are you therefore in favor of civil unions?

it's the legality of shared rights under the law that many same sex couples are looking for.

my SIL & her partner - longer together than me & dh, have had legal documents drawn up for medical/property/asset management because they don't live in a state that recognizes gay "marriages".

If what you describe above is a civil union, then I guess I am for that. I believe two people should be able to determine those things that you list there (and probably more) without somebody else intervening and telling them they don't have the right to determine those things.

what do you define marriage as? i really struggle w/that term because i truly believe this has fallen under a religious umbrella that even heteros don't share.

I define marriage as one man and one woman, not otherwise related. And yes, my reasoning is religious in nature. Like I said, if my world changes around me, then it changes, and there's nothing I can do about that. But as for me, I can't support it with a vote for yes.

[luluc 6]

I define marriage as one man and one woman, not otherwise related. And yes, my reasoning is religious in nature. Like I said, if my world changes around me, then it changes, and there's nothing I can do about that. But as for me, I can't support it with a vote for yes.

that's completely fair.

still think govt should be out of the marriage business - won't affect those that want a "religious" acknowledgment of their union....rather it insults those who choose not to define their marriage in a biblical way.

[Gone4Now 4]

I am not gay, but am a big gay rights supporter. I've had so many friends who have been blasted for being gay and I hate it! So what? It doesn't effect me if two people who love each other want to spend their life together in a committed relationship.

As for Ms. Dumbo - I don't care what her opinion is, either. If she's not for it, then that's her choice and I don't understand why she's been blasted for not believing what she "should" believe. I don't believe that's right.

And, marriage is just a word. If the religious right want to claim it as coming from God, then so be it. Call it whatever you want - just don't take the choice and FREE WILL away from others. Don't mix government and religion.

Why is gay marriage even remotely a legal issue?

[BethFromVA 5]

that's completely fair.

still think govt should be out of the marriage business - won't affect those that want a "religious" acknowledgment of their union....rather it insults those who choose not to define their marriage in a biblical way.

Yes, and I do understand that totally. I'm not a hard-ass on the matter, and it's certainly not something I would be active in defeating like lobbying or anything like that, because I DO feel compassion for those who struggle with these issues (legal and otherwise). We have a great couple of guys that live right in front of us who look after the elderly people on our little street, watched our dogs when we went to Hawaii, and are overall great guys. I enjoy talking to them, enjoy their company, and we have keys to each other's homes. They don't make their homosexuality an issue, and it never comes up (which I prefer to those who are homo-nazis like Rosie O'Donnell and, now, Perez Hilton). I can only hope for these great guys that they have something legal in place to help them should they find themselves in a situation which warrants it.

[ldwestmo 0]

i just think its really sad that all people are still not getting equal rights. why is it such a problem to some people if two homosexuals get married. they make vows to one another... some do so in a church or temple before G*D... they get married in every sense of the word. I for one beleive G*D sees it as a holy union the same as with a heterosexual couple.

My best friend is gay, and i want for him all the rights that i enjoy as a heterosexual woman. I want him to fall in love, get married, have children if he chooses to. i truely beleive in a G*D who created us as equal, and treats us as equals, loves us as equals. I feel sad for those who beleive in an intolerent, hateful G*D.

amy

"have children if they want" . . . ARE YOU KIDDING ME? We could give them all the rights humanly possible and I'm afraid there is no way a "same sex" couple can HAVE CHILDREN. That's the sole purpose of marriage and that's why God made it for a MAN and a WOMAN. Not bashing your beliefs but if you believe the following -

"I for one beleive G*D sees it as a holy union the same as with a heterosexual couple. " -

then you have not read the HOLY BIBLE! ! !

[babygrl1234 6]

:drool:

"have children if they want" . . . ARE YOU KIDDING ME? We could give them all the rights humanly possible and I'm afraid there is no way a "same sex" couple can HAVE CHILDREN. That's the sole purpose of marriage and that's why God made it for a MAN and a WOMAN. Not bashing your beliefs but if you believe the following -

"I for one beleive G*D sees it as a holy union the same as with a heterosexual couple. " -

then you have not read the HOLY BIBLE! ! !

Really? I know a lesbian couple (actually ex couple) that have a child. And even share custody of her as a divorced heterosexual couple would. In fact, they are better about their child's needs and the custody arrangement they have in place than many divorced heterosexual couples are. And unfortunately that friend of mine, not being the biological parent, would not get the same rights as a divorced father not being the biological parent of a child that was adopted during the marriage. Do you think the just because someone can't physically have a child that they are any less of a parent if they adopt? Do you think adoptive parents don't see themselves as parents? That they are any less important to a child just because that child didn't spend it's first 9 months in their body? Are you just that bigoted or just that stupid?

[Jachut 487]

I'm just speaking in generalities Beth. I hate when people get all puffed out in the chest and say "I have no problem with gay people, my best friend is gay" when really, they have HUGE issues with it and are so proud of themselves for being so broadminded and all, kwim? I think a lot people who support gay marriage/interracial marriage/...fill in your issue.... are really completely NOT at ease with the matter. They're so not at ease with it that they become very vocal trying to pretend that they are. I dont think that helps anyone really.

Speaking of civil union, I agree Lulu. I totally disagree with Patty that the majority of our society is highly religious and that God created marriage, in fact I think that people who take that deeply religious a view are few and far between. Certainly in Australia they are.

Nonetheless out of respect that people DO feel that way, I personally elected not to get married in church. Why would I? I dont really believe in God and I'm not keen on organised religion. I most definitely do NOT want my children having that stuff taught to them at school, they have not been christened, even though technically I was christened Anglican. I've never availed myself of any of those religious ceremonies.

I totally agree that civil union is a good answer to it. Leave "marriage" for people who deeply believe in what it is "supposed" to be and let the rest of us enjoy the same legal and social rights with a different ceremony that is equally socially respectable but can take place between ANY sort of couple.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Jachut

[BethFromVA 5]

I'm just speaking in generalities. I hate when people get all puffed out in the chest and say "I have no problem with gay people, my best friend is gay" when really, they have HUGE issues with it and are so proud of themselves for being so broadminded and all, kwim? I think a lot people who support gay marriage/interracial marriage/...fill in your issue.... are really completely NOT at ease with the matter. They're so not at ease with it that they become very vocal trying to pretend that they are. I dont think that helps anyone really.

Yeah, that makes sense. I just wanted to be sure I understood what you were saying. Thanks for the clarification.

[OH Juli 15]

Really? I know a lesbian couple (actually ex couple) that have a child. And even share custody of her as a divorced heterosexual couple would. In fact, they are better about their child's needs and the custody arrangement they have in place than many divorced heterosexual couples are. And unfortunately that friend of mine, not being the biological parent, would not get the same rights as a divorced father not being the biological parent of a child that was adopted during the marriage. Do you think the just because someone can't physically have a child that they are any less of a parent if they adopt? Do you think adoptive parents don't see themselves as parents? That they are any less important to a child just because that child didn't spend it's first 9 months in their body? Are you just that bigoted or just that stupid?

Are you talking about me again? Not the stupid part but the lesbian part raising a kid.

Yeah. Last I checked I'm a lesbian and I infact have a child.

It is possible.

As for marriage being a creation of God, it's a creation of man. I think people were procreating long before the laws of humanity took hold.

As for gay people being part of the natural order of things, you'd imagine natural selection would have irradicated us many generations ago. But no, we are here and a creation of God for a reason. I'm pretty sure it's not to disturb heterosexuals on a personal level. I think it's probably part of a bigger design though.

And for real, I'm just a regular fat woman much like everyone else here. I raise my kid to moral and just, I don't kick my dog and I pay my taxes. I just happen to think other women like me (read gay) are attractive and they float my boat. I don't want take anything away from anyone else. I don't want to sleep with you or your husband or your younger sister, unless of course she's gay and single.

[BethFromVA 5]

I don't want to sleep with you or your husband or your younger sister, unless of course she's gay and single.

That was cute! :drool:

[Nanook 2]

OH Juli,

Don't forget "and hot!":thumbup:

[plain 12]

I don't think she lost the title simply because of her views either. I just wanted to comment on your post because I wanted you to be aware that her response to the question asked was NOT the UNpopular answer.

I think it was the unpopular answer in the room. And as much as I defend FOX news to some other posters, I have to admit they got this one wrong.

And omg, how he responded to Miss California, calling her a "dumb bitch" on his blog. He's a piece of crap, pure and simple.

He called her worse than that. He called her the word that ends in u-n-t and is not "aunt". He's a classy, classy dude.

If what you describe above is a civil union, then I guess I am for that. I believe two people should be able to determine those things that you list there (and probably more) without somebody else intervening and telling them they don't have the right to determine those things.

I totally totally support civil unions and all legal rights thereof. I would vote against gay marriage, if it came up for a vote in my state, even though I have numerous gay friends. I can't even really articulate a good reason that I feel that way....but I do. I wouldn't describe myself as homophobic.

[BethFromVA 5]

He called her worse than that. He called her the word that ends in u-n-t and is not "aunt". He's a classy, classy dude.

Nice. :drool:

It's people like him and Rosie O'Donnell who do their cause the most disservice.

[pattygreen 5]

As for marriage being a creation of God, it's a creation of man. I think people were procreating long before the laws of humanity took hold.

As for gay people being part of the natural order of things, you'd imagine natural selection would have irradicated us many generations ago. But no, we are here and a creation of God for a reason. I'm pretty sure it's not to disturb heterosexuals on a personal level. I think it's probably part of a bigger design though.

God did create marriage in the beginning when he joined Adam and Eve together and told them to procreate. And Yes, that was before the many laws that humans made, and the laws of human beings stem from God's original laws on human rights and wrongs and what he deems acceptable or not.

You are correct in saying that you are here as a creation of God, and a creation he loves dearly, but the choices that you make in life are yours and yours alone, not Gods. He created man and woman and gave them their body parts to fit together and to procreate as he had planned for them. It was not in his plan for men to get together with men or for women to get together with women. If you desire to sleep with other women, it is because it's what you desire, not what God planned for you. A gay person can make a decision to either fulfill his own desires in life, OR follow God's plan for themselves. It's their choice. You or anyone else who is gay is not a part of any bigger design of Gods. God designed you as a woman, and expected you to get married and then have sex with the man you married, or otherwise stay single and not have sex at all.