Is God real?

[123crod 170]

May I ask you a question? Do you believe that if you don't go to heaven that you will 'literally' burn in a fire for all of eternity?

I know you are not talking to me but, I wanted to answer. I do believe you will burn in a pit of fire. How can I believe in Heaven and not believe in hell. Just like if you believe in God you know there is a satan and a place where he will one day dwell. There is spritual war going on.:thumbup:

[pattygreen 5]

I know you are not talking to me but, I wanted to answer. I do believe you will burn in a pit of fire. How can I believe in Heaven and not believe in hell. Just like if you believe in God you know there is a satan and a place where he will one day dwell. There is spritual war going on.:thumbup:

I do believe in Hell and Satan, both. I just don't agree that there is a "literal' fire there. The bible says that God is an all consuming fire, yet we know God is not 'literally' a fire. The bible teaches that if you do not put your faith in Jesus that you will live eternally without him in Hell. Whenever the bible speaks of fire, it is refering to God's judgement. When our bodies die, we either go to heaven or hell. Those who go to hell will suffer eternal torment over the choice that they made here in this life. It will be as if they are in prison for life, only life is forever and ever. When people commit crimes in the world, they spend their lives away from the rest of society in prison. This is torture for them. So, Hell will be a horrible, forever and ever separarion from the God who loves them and created them and also from his family of believers and his beautiful home in heaven.

What do you think?

[BJean 16]

There is hell, but not a literal hell, eh? God is fire but not a literal fire.

Whenever the Bible speaks of fire, it speaks merely of God's judgement, you say. Interesting.

I always find it very interesting that you say you believe in the Bible - literally. And you argue that various translations over the years have not changed the meaning of the original words. You must believe, in order to justify your claim that one can believe that the Bible is literal and self-explanatory, that it contains no ambiguous messages.

Imprisioning someone for life and separating them from society because they broke the law is, you say, the same as hell is meant to be interpreted in the Bible. With the understanding of course, that one will not be separated from society, but from God.

Please explain to all of us how you have come to believe those things. Because it seems to me that you use the Bible to justify your interpretations, yet you say that the Bible can be taken literally because it has not been changed in any substantive way from the day it was written. But, my goodness, if we do take the Bible literally, God must indeed be real fire, as it is written, no? And I don't see how you can deny that there are mysterious passages in the Bible that you have to interpret in order to explain everything. Especially since you're interpreting some things in your post regarding what the Bible means about hell and fire.

Tell us please, how do you know, for sure that God is not literally an all-consuming ball of fire? Take your time. We're in no hurry. :laugh:

[BJean 16]

123crod: I'm not sure that there is a spiritual war going on. I believe it is more of a regligious war. The same kind of religious wars that we read about in the middle east and elsewhere. It revolves around the many citizens' in a country interpreting their Bible, or whatever writings that they believe they are meant to follow, each very differently.

Take the Muslim religion, for example. Some Muslims believe that killing is a major sin. Other Muslims believe that to kill in the name of Allah, to get rid of the horrible infidels who go against Allah's teachings, will be praised by Allah and that if they die in martyrdom for Allah, they will be rewarded by having virgins handed to them in heaven.

Right here in America, people who believe in the Bible certainly don't all agree either. Some believe that war is justified if they believe that some other ruler is a bad guy and in some way threatens our 'righteous' nation. Other believers in the Bible believe that Jesus taught us that killing is a sin and that no one should kill another human being, ever.

Can you explain how we, as a nation, should be able to get along if we don't all agree on our basic religious beliefs? Are we destined to go to war - fighting within our own neighborhoods against those whose religious beliefs are so different from our own? How bad do you think it will have to get here in the United States before we choose to pick up arms and fight for our own personal interpretation of the Bible?

[dfav3412 116]

It's clear to me that people need to go to a Holy

Spirit filled chruch where the Holy Spirit is welcomed and the word is taught not by a man but by the Holy Spirit thru annointed pastors, preachers, teachers, evangelists and the helps ministries.

[KartMan 58]

Don't do it Kartman

Step away from the thread

[123crod 170]

123crod: I'm not sure that there is a spiritual war going on. I believe it is more of a regligious war. The same kind of religious wars that we read about in the middle east and elsewhere. QUOTE]

Sorry I only quoted what I wanted to answer hope that is okay. When I said a “spititual war” I mean between good and evil. I am talking about what I believe, between satan and his evil ways and the Goodness, and Saving Grace of God. Satan is battling for souls to steal, kill and destroy. That has been going on since the beginning of time. Once again I say that is what I believe.:laugh:

[pattygreen 5]

There is hell, but not a literal hell, eh? God is fire but not a literal fire.

Whenever the Bible speaks of fire, it speaks merely of God's judgement, you say. Interesting.

I always find it very interesting that you say you believe in the Bible - literally.

bjean,The language of the bible is of 3 kinds. Figurative, Symbolic and Literal. Such expressions as "Harden not your heart" or "let the dead bury their dead", are figurative and their meaning is made clear by the context. Symbolic language, like the description of Nebuchadnezzar's "Colossus," "Daniels four wild beasts" or Christ in the midst of the "seven candlesticks" is explained in the same chapter or somewhere else in the bible. The rest of the language of the bible is to be interpreted according to the customary rules of grammar. Literally, letting the words say what they say. It's really not that difficult.

The bibles supernatural origin is seen in the fact that it can be translated in any language and not lose its verility or spiritual life giving power, and when translated into any language it fixes that language in its purest form.

And you argue that various translations over the years have not changed the meaning of the original words. You must believe, in order to justify your claim that one can believe that the Bible is literal and self-explanatory, that it contains no ambiguous messages.

Imprisioning someone for life and separating them from society because they broke the law is, you say, the same as hell is meant to be interpreted in the Bible. With the understanding of course, that one will not be separated from society, but from God.

If you picture God as a mean, intollerant Judge waiting to 'get' you, you need a new concept of him. God takes no pleasure in punishing rebels, yet as a last resort, reluctantly he will bring down his hand of judgement. Yet, even then, he laments what must be done. Discipline must follow an unrepentant heart, but that doesn't mean that God likes handing out the necessary punishment. Probably the hardest thing for God to take is that we bring such trouble upon ourselves. Who knows how much pain and suffering we endure that could have been avoided had we turned our faces, and not our backs, towards God. It is up to us whether we suffer under God's awesome hand of judgement. God doesn't merely give us a choice and then retire to a corner until we make our decision. He loves us too much to act so passively. Instead, he sends us repeated encouragments and warnings through out our lives to heed his word and to accept his gracious offer of life. In order to get our attention and persuade us to change our life course, the Lord normally employs escalating judgements . He increases the intensity of his discipline in proportion to the stubbornness of our hearts. He takes no pleasure in causing us distress, but he takes less pleasure in allowing us to walk blindly into oblivion. He does this to individuals as well as Nations. He sends us judgements so that we might understand our spiritual danger and turn from our sin. He shows us mercy in many ways such as his deep yearning for us to grasp and take to heart the discipline he carefully measures out. God is patient.

Please explain to all of us how you have come to believe those things. Because it seems to me that you use the Bible to justify your interpretations, yet you say that the Bible can be taken literally because it has not been changed in any substantive way from the day it was written. But, my goodness, if we do take the Bible literally, God must indeed be real fire, as it is written, no? And I don't see how you can deny that there are mysterious passages in the Bible that you have to interpret in order to explain everything. Especially since you're interpreting some things in your post regarding what the Bible means about hell and fire.

Hell is banishment or separation from God. It is exclusion from all that matters, from all value, not only from God, but from those who have come to know and love him. The pain that's suffered there is sorrow from the final, unending separation from Him and his Kingdom and the good life for which we were created in the first place. It is utter heartbreak. Hell is primarially a place for people who would not want to go to heaven. They don't consciously choose Hell, but they do choose not to care about the kinds of values that will be present in Heaven every day. It's not simply a sentence, but the end of a path chosen in this life, right here and now, day by day. What is the worst thing that a person can do? Mock, dishonor, and refuse to love the person that we owe everything to, God himself. To think that a person could go through their whole life constantly ignoring him, mocking him and his children, choose to live without him and saying,"I couldn't care less about your values or your Son's death for me. I'm going to ignore all of that." That's the ultimate sin. And the only punishment worthy of that is the ultimate punishment, which is everlasting separation from God.

Tell us please, how do you know, for sure that God is not literally an all-consuming ball of fire? Take your time. We're in no hurry. :laugh:

All through the scripture whenever God speaks of fire, he is talking about his judgements in the passage. The 12th chapter in Hebrews in the NT ends with this sentence: "Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire." This whole chapter speaks about God disciplining his sons and gives warnings against refusing God. (his judgement) Many other places such as Deuteronmy chapter 4 Verse 24 also speaks of God being a consuming fire. In this chapter of the OT, God is once again speaking of being obedient to him and not making an idol for yourselves, for he is a God of 'judgement'. Other scriptures talk of God as 'love'. Yet, he is both loving and just. One must read all of it to get the overall view and content of the scriptures. Once again, to fully understand it, you must get the overall picture from reading all of it. There are NO mysterious passages in the bible that need to be interpreted. God has given us his word so that no one is without excuse for not knowing. He has made it very understandable for all.

[pattygreen 5]

Don't do it Kartman

Step away from the thread

Kartman, I like you. This is really Funny! But do it, okay?

[pattygreen 5]

123crod: I'm not sure that there is a spiritual war going on.

The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. Our weapons are the powers given to God's children as his adopted sons. We can pray and rebuke in the Name of Jesus, and anything we ask, if it is in accordance with God's will, he will give us. There is a spiritual warfare going on that we can not see. The evil forces of Satan against the good forces of God.

I believe it is more of a regligious war. The same kind of religious wars that we read about in the middle east and elsewhere. It revolves around the many citizens' in a country interpreting their Bible, or whatever writings that they believe they are meant to follow, each very differently.

The war you speak of is mankinds physical war of selfishness, greed and lust.

Take the Muslim religion, for example. Some Muslims believe that killing is a major sin. Other Muslims believe that to kill in the name of Allah, to get rid of the horrible infidels who go against Allah's teachings, will be praised by Allah and that if they die in martyrdom for Allah, they will be rewarded by having virgins handed to them in heaven.

Right here in America, people who believe in the Bible certainly don't all agree either. Some believe that war is justified if they believe that some other ruler is a bad guy and in some way threatens our 'righteous' nation. Other believers in the Bible believe that Jesus taught us that killing is a sin and that no one should kill another human being, ever.

Just because mankind cannot agree upon what is right and wrong, does not mean that God does not exist. We are all accountable for our own knowledge of God or lack of it.

Can you explain how we, as a nation, should be able to get along if we don't all agree on our basic religious beliefs?

Don't fret. This will only be for a time. God promises to return to earth one day and set things right.

Are we destined to go to war - fighting within our own neighborhoods against those whose religious beliefs are so different from our own? How bad do you think it will have to get here in the United States before we choose to pick up arms and fight for our own personal interpretation of the Bible?

I believe God would be happy if we just would stand up for righteousness, never mind to fight each other over which interpretaion is right

[BJean 16]

Nothing I said suggests that God doesn't exist.

I could worry about God's return to earth, but right now I'm much more worried about the religious zealots who threaten my existence.

It is one thing to speak of righteousness and quite another to practice it.

The interesting thing is that you and I disagree on what that consists of.

[BJean 16]

kateman, if only I had your strength.

[pattygreen 5]

Nothing I said suggests that God doesn't exist.

You're right. So sorry. You believe God exists. But you don't believe the bible are his words. Am I right about this?

I could worry about God's return to earth, but right now I'm much more worried about the religious zealots who threaten my existence.

Jesus said, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but not the soul. Rather be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28) Your existance is eternal. No one can threaten it or take it away. You will always exist. Maybe you should worry about his return. We need to be ready for it.

It is one thing to speak of righteousness and quite another to practice it.

What do you mean here?

The interesting thing is that you and I disagree on what that consists of.

Yes, I guess we do. I believe it consists of what God says it consists of. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your definition of righteousness is whatever seems good in your fellow mans eyes.

[aimeenichole 0]

May I ask you a question? Do you believe that if you don't go to heaven that you will 'literally' burn in a fire for all of eternity?

I believe whatever hell is I don't want to go there. Whether it be burning or just being tortured forever. I don't have anything that would make me not believe this. Why do I believe it? Because I believe the bible is the word of God given to man to be written for us to know the truth. It's ok for people to think I'm crazy to believe in a book written that long ago, and for me to believe that there is a God who created all of us. Yet I doubt it's any more crazy than the belief that some big bang happened millions of years ago to some cells (who made the cells and the bang, how did they exist with nothing there to begin with) and that this created life. I think everyone is entitled to there opinion. Don't believe in hell that's fine, but it would really be a rude awakening if you were to find out that it is true. I'm not saying that you do or do not believe in hell, just speaking in general.

Edited September 13, 2009 by aimeenichole

[aimeenichole 0]

Thanks for that, it was exactly what I was thinking.