Obama's stimulus package decision

[plain 12]

You're right about Bush being my president too. It was very hard to stomach. Probably no different than how you feel about a Democrat being in office.

Nah. There are several moderate democrats that are politically appealing to me.

But I did lose pride in my country because of the policies he adopted while he was in office. The country changed, and not for the better.

Again, we disagree here, and I could challenge, but that doesn't advance our new topic.

But the difference between the Democrats and Republicans when it comes to taxes is not that Republicans don't believe in taxes or reducing the size of government, they just say that they do. In reality they don't.

That's true. They did what they said they weren't going to do: earmark the budget and increase the size of government. And they're paying the price this political cycle. And they should. But dang.....Obama's bill (and it is his, no matter what his spokesmen say this is not carryover spending from Bush) is a bitter pill for me to swallow. It's a huge gamble.

We own a business too and I believe that if we hire our computer work out, it will not be to India or any other foreign country. We'll get out of the business before that becomes acceptable to us.

It would be a shame if you had to consider outsourcing your computer work because your increased taxes meant you couldn't afford to hire Americans to do the job. Gee, just think if the taxes weren't so high, maybe you could afford to hire that American dude to do the computer work. That American dude would then use his salary to buy stuff and stimulate the economy. That's exactly how a lower tax model works. And, despite the hype about "having the rich pay their fair share", that's why raising taxes on businesses will hurt our economy in the long run.

But for the first time in a very long time, the president has not made all of his appointees exclusively from his own party. And he has already reached out to the opposition party, which past administrations seldom did, except for Reagan

Actually, it's a longstanding tradition for the president to have somebody from the opposing party sit in his cabinet. Carter did it, Reagan did it, HW Bush did it, Clinton did it, and W Bush did it.

I understand the reason for our presence in Afhganistan but I disagree that it is necessary. I know that Pakistan and Iran are huge concerns for us, but to keep pouring money down that Afganistan rat hole is not helping our economic situation.

Not directly, but keeping the Taliban from seizing control of a very unstable Pakistan (and its nuclear warheads) is pretty vital to our economy!!

And the Taliban continues to grow and are a bigger a threat around the world everyday.

That's exactly the reason to send troops to Afganistan. Exactly.

[BJean 16]

But plain, the trickle down theory is just that, a theory. It doesn't work. It might have worked in the past if the wealthy weren't so greedy. But you claim it will work in the long run and in fact, it has not, unless you mean over a hundred years or so and I am still not convinced that the richer folks will ever do the right thing.

Paying their fair share only means just that. I'm not saying they should pay everybody's share - just their own. Tax them like they tax the rest of us. Stop with the huge tax incentives to oil companies, for instance. If you want to give tax incentives, give them to companies that will reinvest in rebuilding American infrastructure and in eco-friendly alternatives to all of the things that pollute and defile the earth.

American consumers could begin to make a difference if they would refuse to purchase items made out of the country. Of course it would be very hard to find goods that are made here. Nearly everything, especially in discount stores like Wal-mart, are made in places like China.

I agree that the stimulous bill is frightening. The alternative is also frightening.

How is our presence in Afghanistan going to allow us to keep Pakistan from being taken over by the Taliban? It keeps us in the area true, but what the president originally spoke to was actually going into Pakistan. You think he is getting us poised to do that? Too bad we're having to fight the Afhanistani people, continuing to deplete our resources, in the meantime.

I wish there were a covert way to take care of business there. One that could reduce the "collateral" damage and our other dwindling resources.

[green 6]

They say that Rome wasn't built in a day. Obama inherited a big fat stinking mess, and it will take time, and lots of it, in order that Washington might fix this. And you have yer Republicans who are suspicious of too much government intervention: this may, practically speaking, mean that Obama will find that his hands are tied in so far that his government can develop programmes of intervention - these may be considered unacceptable and unwelcomed by many Americans.

It is obvious to me that your businesses flourished during the 1990s without government scrutiny and legislation and to what effect? Incompetency and criminal greed were the order of the day and now your big businesses - employers of so many, many Americans and a source of wealth to shareholders, some of whom are retirees, are now in the toilet. But shit, as they say, runs down hill, and this financial malaise is now affecting all of us - even on a global level.

The middle east is a special mess and Bush should never have gotten involved there. It is impossible to introduce democracy as we who live inside North America know it to this region which thrives on tribal and religious allegiances. Had he done his research, been less arrogant, instead of simply reading the Bible and figuring that all folks are like Americans, he would have been aware of this factor. This also holds true in Afghanistan, an unwinnable war. Our Canadian premier, by the way, has gone on record as stating that the Afghanistan offensive is unwinnable. We have troups stationed there and they are dying. Many Canadians want us out but he has pledged our troups will remain until 2011. I have done much reading on these issues and they are fascinating and ultimately very depressing. It is worthwhile noting that the Soviets were unable to retain their control over Afghanistan and they were constrained by comparatively few concerns for human rights, unlike Canada and America. It is very difficult to defeat insurgents, particularly those who are able to draw their strength and take shelter within the Pakistan border.

Yes, that is right: America has been funding with your tax dollars Pakistan who in turn has been sheltering and aiding and abetting the Taliban insurgents. It is a real mess this which Obama has inherited from the previous administration.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Setting aside the fact that we now have a black president, b/c I for one am glad that our country has overcome the race issue on this level, are you still glad that you voted for Obama? I didn't vote for him. Nothing to do with his skin color, though.

Prior to the election, I could understand why giving him your vote would play a big part in history, and I knew that people would vote for him for that reason, but I had hoped that McCain was a black man, cause then we could have had a win, win.

Obama's first priority in office was to make darn sure that if you wanted to, you could get an abortion at any time and for any reason. (that speaks volumes to me about his priorities. LIFE means nothing to Him) He is not pro-abortion. He is pro-choice. He said that debate is over. He wants to reach common ground and reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, something that the extreme anti-abortion group does not want. Abortion is already legal and your anti-abortion president bush did nothing to change that. He broke his campaign promise about ending the war immediately. Now he says within 1 1/2 years. But maybe longer. He never said he was going to end the war immediately. He said 16 months - with the provision that he meet and discuss this with the generals on the ground. He has done that and made a decision that even your McCain agrees with. What about his questionable appointees? So a couple didn't pay their taxes. Big deal. bush's appointees (Rove, Meiers, Libby - all broke the law and are now testifying under oath). BUT THE BIG KICKER WAS THAT RIDICULOUS STIMULUS PLAN!!!!!! If you spend 1 MILLION Dollars a day(A DAY!) for the next 485 years, you would finally finish spending all the money he plans to BLOW! OUTRAGEOUS!!!! Which of you when you are financially in trouble in your household decides to get out the credit cards and go on a spending spree? Would that solve your financial problems, or bring you deeper into the hole??!! Why can't America and Obama see that? Who's going to stimulate this economy? Who has the power and breath and scope to do so? Is Exxon going to use some of its obscene profits to do so? How about Wal-Mart? Maybe they can fund health care for the 47 million without it. 18,000 people a year die from lack of health insurance. Does your pro-life stance extend to them or does it stop at the womb? Maybe McDonald's will build new bridges and roads so people can get drive to their restaurants. He also promised to go LINE for LINE thru the stimulus package and remove ALL pork spending, But there are 9000 Pet Projects in there that have NOTHING to do with stimulating the economy whatsoever!Most of the so-called pork was put in there by republicans. They are the biggest hypocrites. Our 24/7 cable news picks out a few items that sounds ridiculous but may have merit in the state and area receiving the money. Research on swine odors? Ask a congressman from Iowa if they need that? Investment in bees? We wouldn't have produce without bees. So all is not as it appears. He promised that lobbyists and special interest groups would have NO place in His administration if He were elected.His under secretaries and staff for the cabinet offices are woefully understaffed as of today for that reason. He has made the standard so high and not allowing lobbyists that few have applied. What a LIAR! Now he tells us that within 4 years he will have the National Debt cut in half!!! Ha! Ha! Ha! What a JOKE!!! It would be possible if the party of "no" quits protecting their wealthy friends and allows the tax cuts to roll back to the pre-bush days. For the past eight (8) years the middle class has been funding the tax cuts to the wealthy to the tune of $8000-$10,000 a year in taxes. HEY, ANYONE OUT THERE WANT TO CONTINUE TO PAY THIS AMOUNT OF TAXES SO THE RICH CAN GET RICHER???The most intelligent financial advisors, and not just one, but many, many of them say He is dreaming!! It JUST isn't possible. With the amount of money he is spending in his first 2 months of presidency, we will NEVER be able to repay it. He is putting our children, grandchildren and great, great grandchildren in financial ruin. Where was your outrage when bush entered into an unneccesary war in Iraq that has not only cost us nearly a trillion dollars but resulted in over 4000 deaths? Does that debt count toward our children or grandchildren? That war money only made the war contractors rich - who squandered and abused the contracts and $18 million is unaccounted for? DON'T YOU WANT TO KNOW WHERE THAT MONEY WENT??? There were no jobs created with that war money besides Halliburton and KBG - whose work has resulted in electrocutions of our troops.He has kept the Nation in controversial division rather than uniting us.Are you freaking kidding me? He has a 70% approval rating. bush left with a 26%. When 70% of the country approves of him, I don't know how that is divisive. I know it is difficult now for those who voted for him to admit he is doing everything wrong and he is outrageously spending our tax dollars to the tune of TRILLIONS, because everyone has such high hopes for him or someone like him to 'FIX' things, BUT can you honestly say you're proud of his decisions so far?:cool2:

I am very proud that I not only voted for him but that I worked for his campaign. :thumbup:

[Cleo's Mom 257]

He turns the message of hope and change into scandal, double standards and doom and gloom. He says he inherited a huge deficit wrapped with a red bow and then he introduces and shoves the most outrageous spending package the world has ever seen right down our throats.

Where is the quick 'jolt' to the economy? $26 billion, just 3% will be spent this year. $110 Billion, 13% spent next year. By the time Obama is 1/2 way thru his term, 16% of the money will be spent. He calls it an investment in American infrastructure, but just 3% is dedicated to roads and highways. He wants to create 'green' jobs and clean energy. Just 2% is going to that and only 1/17 of it will be spent over the next 2 yrs.

Do you get your news from any other source other than Limbaugh & Fox news? Because if you did you'd know that the original stimulus package had more for infrastructure and job creating programs but ...now read this carefully: THE OBSTRUCTIONIST REPUBLICANS WOULDN'T VOTE FOR IT IN THIS FORM. AND OBAMA NEEDED 2 REPUBLICAN VOTES FOR IT TO PASS IN THE SENATE. TO GET THOSE HE HAD TO PUT MUCH MORE IN TAX CUTS INTO THE PACKAGE - WHICH CONSTITUTES THE BIGGEST SINGLE AREA OF THE STIMULUS PACKAGE. THE REPUBLICANS INSISTED ON THIS. So, the republicans are to blame for more of the stimulus package not being devoted to infrastructure, etc..

CBO tells us billions are going to new computers and Gov. cars with fuel alternatives. This is part of making us more energy efficient, more green and less dependent on foreign oil. We pay now to save later. We're where we are on this issue because it has been ignored by past presidents. There's money going to 150 different programs from amtrack to TSA and it's not clear that a single new job will be created. It's Socialism and He's using fear to promote his long term changes to our country.

Can I have your social security checks because that is the biggest socialist program in the country and there isn't a republican with the balls to attack it. And it works and lifts many elderly out of poverty. BUT BACK TO THE STIMULUS PACKAGE. Where were the cries of socialism from the hypocritical republicans when they were falling all over each other in October 2008 (under bush) to get to DC to bail out Wall Street to the tune of $350 billion - much of which we have learned now has been used to give huge bonuses to the failing corporate executives? Why, John McCain suspended his campaign to rush and bail out his corporate friends. Were was his outrage about these bonuses? He seems more concerned that there is a few thousand in funding for blueberries. He seriously looks increasingly like sour grapes. Someone needs to tell him the campaign is over. In fact the whole republican party is in shambles. If their best is bloated, drug-abusing, loud-mouthed Limbaugh, air-head, aerial wolf shooting Palin, bizzare Bobby Jindal, erratic John McCain and crazy (you da man) michelle bachman then I, for one, am going to enjoy sitting back and watching this boat sink.

[luluc 6]

I am very proud that I not only voted for him but that I worked for his campaign.

same here, i think i love you cleo's mom!!!!!

[pattygreen 5]

Cleo's Mom, To be pro choice means you approve of abortion, thus pro abortion. Everybody wants to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancys so who says that the anti abortionists don't want that? We do. I don't approve of Obama's repealing of the rule that Bush set up which restricted federal money for international organizations that promote or provide abortions overseas.

Next, He DID say while campaigning, that he would end the war immediately, or within 6 months. He opposed mcCain who said it would be at LEAST 2 years before we could start to bring our troops home. Now that he's pres., he's doing what McCain said. Not that I oppose, mind you. Our troops are needed there. I'm only noting yet another campaign promise to you dems that he broke.

You are right when you say that Bush appointees broke the law, Most politicians do. BUT, Obama said in his campaign that HIS administration would be different. Remember that? CHANGE!

Who's going to stimulate the economy? Leave it alone. Just like in the early 80's. It was worse than this. We came out of it. And we didn't have to spend trillions to do it. When you have financial problems at home, do you get out your credit cards? Or do you cut your spending and eliminate things that you don't need for a while till you get your budget in balance? Yeah. It may be hard on you for a while, but in the end, you don't owe anyone anything.

This stimulus package has a measily 3% of funds going to infrastructure, so don't tell me this is the answer for that. As far as health care goes, I feel the gov. needs to stay out of it. I don't want to pay for everybody elses health care. In this country, if you don't have ins. you can apply to your state and get it. Or you can go to any hosp. and they will not turn you away. We pay for that already. Let's just keep it that way.

As for the pork. I don't want to pay for the research of swine odor! That's NOT going to stimulate the economy! This is a STIMULUS bill. Where does the research of bees fit into that? If your state needs the funds for your important project, where do you get off having the rest of the nation pay for it?! And, I don't care which party put the pork in there. Obama promised there would be none!

BTW, the rich have every right to get richer. It's called free enterprise and our country was founded on it. If you work hard, get an education, use your talents, put aside laziness, go for your dreams, you can get wealthy. I believe all should pay an equal amount of tax, regardless of your income. I also believe that if our gov. would reduce its size, we wouldn't need so much funding.

I had no outrage when Bush entered a war after 9/11. He did what he felt was needed to be done at the time. We were attacked! Have you forgotten? I don't see anyone upset about the fact that there hasn't been an attack on our soil since then. I would rather see money that we don't have spent on military defense than stimulating us into oblivion debt.

And that 70% approval rating is falling daily.

[luluc 6]

I had no outrage when Bush entered a war after 9/11. He did what he felt was needed to be done at the time. We were attacked! Have you forgotten? I don't see anyone upset about the fact that there hasn't been an attack on our soil since then. I would rather see money that we don't have spent on military defense than stimulating us into oblivion debt..

oh less we forget - what happened when baby bush went looking for those WMD???....trying to right the wrong of daddy bush...they weren't THERE!

art of distraction - the money spent on this bogus war has cost us domestically.....and to slam a man who's had what 35 days in.....shameful at best.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Cleo's Mom, To be pro choice means you approve of abortion, thus pro abortion. Everybody wants to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancys so who says that the anti abortionists don't want that?No, every anti-abortionist doesn't want to do that. They want to make contraceptive hard or expensive to get and teach abstinence only sex ed (ask Bristol Palin if that works.) We do. I don't approve of Obama's repealing of the rule that Bush set up which restricted federal money for international organizations that promote or provide abortions overseas. By restricting federal money to those countries money was restricted to provide family planning, contraceptives and female ob/gyn care, too. These countries need birth control, not more children.

Next, He DID say while campaigning, that he would end the war immediately, or within 6 months.NO HE DIDN'T. GO ON YOU TUBE AND LOOK AT HIS SPEECHES. HE SAID 16 MONTHS -but he said conditionally. He opposed mcCain who said it would be at LEAST 2 years before we could start to bring our troops home. Now that he's pres., he's doing what McCain said. Not that I oppose, mind you. Our troops are needed there. I'm only noting yet another campaign promise to you dems that he broke. He did not break this promise.

You are right when you say that Bush appointees broke the law, Most politicians do. BUT, Obama said in his campaign that HIS administration would be different. Remember that? CHANGE! His vetting process might have not uncovered all the problems, but when they were discovered they all paid their back taxes, and two withdrew. He has reached out and nominated republicans for cabinet positions and reached out to them in a bi-partisan way, especially to McCain, by honoring him, and then sour-grapes McCain seems to enjoy trying to embarrass Obama in public. He is so ungracious and unstatesman-like. He never deserved to be president. I am so glad he lost. So, Obama has made many changes from the old ways of Washington.

Who's going to stimulate the economy? Leave it alone. Just like in the early 80's. It was worse than this. Again, NO IT WASN'T. This is the worst economic downturn since the great depression. The stock market has lost over 50% of its value. That's trillions of dollars the American people have lost. We came out of it. Reagan ran up the biggest deficit (bigger than all the previous presidents combined) with his Reagonomic - trickle down, give to the rich and hope it trickles down to the rest of us. Bush did the same and you see where it got us. He didn't create one net job during his eight years as president. And we didn't have to spend trillions to do it. When you have financial problems at home, do you get out your credit cards? Or do you cut your spending and eliminate things that you don't need for a while till you get your budget in balance? Yeah. It may be hard on you for a while, but in the end, you don't owe anyone anything. Is that what bush did to finance the war in Iraq? Say, sorry, we don't have the money - can't do it. No, he borrowed from China (who owns this country) and paid all his and Cheney's pals in Halliburton and put us, our children and grandchildren in debt for an unnecessary war that killed over 4000. Again these were post-born people that died.

This stimulus package has a measily 3% of funds going to infrastructure, so don't tell me this is the answer for that. As far as health care goes, I feel the gov. needs to stay out of it. I don't want to pay for everybody elses health care. You already are in the form of higher insurance premiums for you and/or your employer. I would rather rein in the cost of health care and provide it for everyone. HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT -NOT A PRIVILEDGE OF THE RICH OR EMPLOYED. PERIOD. THERE IS NO DEBATE AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. It is positively outrageous that in a country of our wealth and greatness that we would allow this to happen. It is shameful. In this country, if you don't have ins. you can apply to your state and get it. If you're referring to Medicaid- that is only for the poor. There are many working poor who don't qualify. Or you can go to any hosp. and they will not turn you away. The ER is where the uninsured go for health care. And the hospital has to charge them more than the insured. Do you have to go to the ER for all your health care? Would you want to? I doubt it, but you seem to be willing to relegate the working poor to there. We pay for that already. Let's just keep it that way. You want to paint abortion as immoral? Well, I find the fact that you want to discard the uninsured to the bowels of the ER's across America immoral. How dare you claim to be pro-life. Life goes beyond the womb. There are actual living, breathing people that are hurting in this country through no fault of their own. I want to help them - you have a "you made your bed now lie in it" heartless attitude.

As for the pork. I don't want to pay for the research of swine odor! That's NOT going to stimulate the economy! How do you know? I don't want to live downwind from a swine farm. The research might produce a way to contain the odor - building the devices, installing them ,etc... Those are JOBS! As well as the research jobs. This is a STIMULUS bill. Where does the research of bees fit into that? Bees are essential to our agriculture and if research produces better ways to use them in this way to produce more fruits and vegetables, that makes for more jobs. If your state needs the funds for your important project, where do you get off having the rest of the nation pay for it?! Where do I get off? Go study your history. That is what the job of each congressional representative is when he/she goes to Washington DC. To bring back federal money to their district. So, I pay for yours and you pay for mine. That is the way the constitution works. We all pay federal taxes and then our congressman/woman competes to bring it home. What some call pork for one district is jobs and opportunities in another district. And, I don't care which party put the pork in there. Obama promised there would be none! This budget was created before Obama was sworn in as president. And presidents don't create budgets. Congress does.

BTW, the rich have every right to get richer.Yeah, but I don't want them getting rich on my dime. While they enjoyed the tax cuts of bush, the middle class has lost more real wages and income and their earning power has declined enormously. IT IS THE MIDDLE CLASS, NOT THE WEALTHY, THAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF AMERICA. WE ARE THE WORKERS, THE TEACHERS, NURSES, POLICE OFFICER, WAITRESSES, FACTORY WORKERS (THE ONES LEFT) - WHO WILL NEVER BE RICH. But they want a decent wage, health benefits and to be able to retire. The rich have all that and they want to take it away from the middle class and have done that under the bush tax cuts. Now Obama wants to level the playing field and of course the HAVE'S don't want to share with anyone. It's called free enterprise and our country was founded on it. If you work hard, get an education, use your talents, put aside laziness, go for your dreams, you can get wealthy.An education is increasingly out of the reach for the middle class but again Obama is doing something to help those families send their kids to college. Plus he just said everyone should aspire to get one more year of education beyond what they have. Great advice. More education translates into better wages and jobs. I believe all should pay an equal amount of tax, regardless of your income. I also believe that if our gov. would reduce its size, we wouldn't need so much funding.Our government actually has fewer employees than it did 30 years ago. As for the money in the federal budget - well, if the greedy crooks on Wall Street hadn't screwed up this economy, we wouldn't be in this mess to have to clean it up. We cannot afford to let this recession become a depression. I am so glad we have someone like Obama at the helm during these trying times and apparently so does 72% of the American people.

I had no outrage when Bush entered a war after 9/11. He did what he felt was needed to be done at the time. We were attacked! Not by Iraq!! Bush didn't even discuss the invasion of Iraq with Rumsfeld - his secretary of defense. Just him and Cheney. They made the decision to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. And in doing so, created conditions for Al-Queda to infiltrate Iraq. Have you forgotten?No, I haven't forgotten that Bin Laden- WHO DID CAUSE 9/11- has never been captured. Bush eventually said he didn't matter. I don't see anyone upset about the fact that there hasn't been an attack on our soil since then.Well, there weren't any significant attacks on our soil before then either. But the point is this - on the one day that we should have been kept safe by bush - we weren't - and 3000 people died. He ignored the PDB memo "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the United States" in August 2001 and instead did his pretend cowboy brush cutting in Crawford County for 5 weeks. It's like the farmer who leaves the barn door open and half his horses get out and then he closes the door and says"see no more horses have gotten out". But we had people die of anthrax powder(in the mail) after 9/11. Does that count? I would rather see money that we don't have spent on military defense than stimulating us into oblivion debt.I wouldn't. Our military budget is bloated. We need to spend more on troops pay, benefits and body armor, vehicles, and health care and education when they return. More for the men and women. Less for all the stuff we don't need - billions going to greedy contractors that can't wait to get their hands on lucrative government contracts.

And that 70% approval rating is falling daily.

It just went up to 72% today. Try to keep up.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

same here, i think i love you cleo's mom!!!!!

Thanks, I really enjoyed it, too. I live in a very republican county but that didn't stop us volunteers from going door to door, making phone calls and whatever else was called for. I feel like I am part of history. And I did it for my husband who knew he was dying when bush was re-elected in 2004 and we had worked for John Kerry. I made him a promise that I would continue to volunteer. For me and for him. He died in Oct. 2005 and now I give out a scholarship every year, in his memory, to a democratic student at the high school at which he taught.

[BJean 16]

Cleo'smum, I would have enjoyed being physically involved in the campaign but I didn't want to do it alone. None of the people I am around and only one of my friends is a Democrat. In fact one friend of mine (and we generally never talked politics) hasn't had anything to do with me since Obama won. I told her I was going to vote for him and she hasn't forgiven me. I find most Republicans a very odd lot of people.

Thanks for your posts above. You present some factual data whereas I just rant from my heart, which is pretty lame in a debate.

[green 6]

My brother, who lives in Virginia and who voted for Obama, has told me that his presidency isn't even that old and yet the local newspapers are already filled with letters to the editor complaining about his poor performance. He figures that you should give the guy a chance. The way I see it, the problems which he has inherited from the Bush Incompetency Project are complex and systemic. It will take much time and many failures before they get fixed. I cannot say that the alternative - those yahoos, McCain and Palin - would be likely to do much better.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

BJean - you can get involved now by contacting the offices of your representatives and ask them to support the president's budget, health care plan and in the future his energy plans. Keep the pressure on. Or join the email list of moveon.org. They always send great information. Good luck. I know it's not easy being blue surrounded by red!

[luluc 6]

I know it's not easy being blue surrounded by red!

especially in your own home...LOL DH at least want's obama to succeed:)

i think your scholarship is an amazing gift, your very special for doing that!!!

[green 6]

Thanks, I really enjoyed it, too. I live in a very republican county but that didn't stop us volunteers from going door to door, making phone calls and whatever else was called for. I feel like I am part of history. And I did it for my husband who knew he was dying when bush was re-elected in 2004 and we had worked for John Kerry. I made him a promise that I would continue to volunteer. For me and for him. He died in Oct. 2005 and now I give out a scholarship every year, in his memory, to a democratic student at the high school at which he taught.

This post touches me very much. Obama visited Canada recently where he received a very warm welcome. His values are Canadian values and our banks were relatively unaffected by the great upheaval south of the border; this was due to our government's legislative interference. We also have universal health care and none of our citizens are left uncovered by the cost of health insurance premiums. It is the taxpayer which pays for this, it is true, but this system cuts out the big business middleman, and is much cheaper (by approximately 2,000 dollars per capita than your system). Up here same sex marriage is legal. Why? Because we have legislation in place which protects the rights of minorities. The majority certainly will not do so.

It annoys me when folks like Pattygreen who display themselves as being ill-read and unknowledgeable begin to shoot off their big mouths about such complex issues. Answers to these issues will not be found in the Bible. You should try reading The Economist, Patty. Obama is one step ahead of you; he has gone to Harvard, and this indicates that he knows how to read and research topics.

I must say that I tend to pay more attention to Gadget's, who is her co-religionist, posts because she displays an ability to get around the internet and she makes few spelling and grammatical errors. Cleo's mum has made cogent points in her refutation of Battygreen's commentary. You would do well to study these.

The wealthy will never be exempt from corrupt desires and greed. It is for this reason that legislation is required to curb raw capitalism. Remember, PattyG, that it is easier for the wealthy to enter through the eye of the needle than it is for them to enter Heaven. Is that not what it says in yer Bible????