Obama's stimulus package decision

[pattygreen 5]

Setting aside the fact that we now have a black president, b/c I for one am glad that our country has overcome the race issue on this level, are you still glad that you voted for Obama? I didn't vote for him. Nothing to do with his skin color, though.

Prior to the election, I could understand why giving him your vote would play a big part in history, and I knew that people would vote for him for that reason, but I had hoped that McCain was a black man, cause then we could have had a win, win.

Obama's first priority in office was to make darn sure that if you wanted to, you could get an abortion at any time and for any reason. (that speaks volumes to me about his priorities. LIFE means nothing to Him) He broke his campaign promise about ending the war immediately. Now he says within 1 1/2 years. But maybe longer. What about his questionable appointees? BUT THE BIG KICKER WAS THAT RIDICULOUS STIMULUS PLAN!!!!!! If you spend 1 MILLION Dollars a day(A DAY!) for the next 485 years, you would finally finish spending all the money he plans to BLOW! OUTRAGEOUS!!!! Which of you when you are financially in trouble in your household decides to get out the credit cards and go on a spending spree? Would that solve your financial problems, or bring you deeper into the hole??!! Why can't America and Obama see that? He also promised to go LINE for LINE thru the stimulus package and remove ALL pork spending, But there are 9000 Pet Projects in there that have NOTHING to do with stimulating the economy whatsoever! He promised that lobbyists and special interest groups would have NO place in His administration if He were elected. What a LIAR! Now he tells us that within 4 years he will have the National Debt cut in half!!! Ha! Ha! Ha! What a JOKE!!! The most intelligent financial advisors, and not just one, but many, many of them say He is dreaming!! It JUST isn't possible. With the amount of money he is spending in his first 2 months of presidency, we will NEVER be able to repay it. He is putting our children, grandchildren and great, great grandchildren in financial ruin. He has kept the Nation in controversial division rather than uniting us. I know it is difficult now for those who voted for him to admit he is doing everything wrong and he is outrageously spending our tax dollars to the tune of TRILLIONS, because everyone has such high hopes for him or someone like him to 'FIX' things, BUT can you honestly say you're proud of his decisions so far?:wink::eek::thumbup:

Edited March 1, 2009 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

He turns the message of hope and change into scandal, double standards and doom and gloom. He says he inherited a huge deficit wrapped with a red bow and then he introduces and shoves the most outrageous spending package the world has ever seen right down our throats.

Where is the quick 'jolt' to the economy? $26 billion, just 3% will be spent this year. $110 Billion, 13% spent next year. By the time Obama is 1/2 way thru his term, 16% of the money will be spent. He calls it an investment in American infrastructure, but just 3% is dedicated to roads and highways. He wants to create 'green' jobs and clean energy. Just 2% is going to that and only 1/17 of it will be spent over the next 2 yrs.

CBO tells us billions are going to new computers and Gov. cars with fuel alternatives. There's money going to 150 different programs from amtrack to TSA and it's not clear that a single new job will be created. It's Socialism and He's using fear to promote his long term changes to our country.

[plain 12]

Patty, I didn't vote for Obama either. It was because he's black.

Just kidding. I just didn't agree with his politics. However, he is now our president and I think that all Americans need to give him the benefit of the doubt. Don't be like those annoying liberals that constantly disrespected Bush with ill thought-out personal attacks because they disagreed with him politically.

I haven't seen where Obama has made any significant moves to promote abortion. He kinda has his hands full with the economy to address any controversial social issues right now. Are you speaking about "The conscience clause"? Because I think that's kind of small potatoes.

Ending the war......easy to say, much more complicated to do. Personally, I felt a little reassured that Obama didn't just blindly pull out the troops without regard to what would happen, as opposed to seeing that position as a flip-flop. I think (maybe somewhat naively) that the president has access to a lot of information that everybody else doesn't have. Even members of congress. That's part of why I got annoyed with the people that claimed (and some continue to assert) that "Bush lied". My point is.....it looks to me like Obama got a little more educated to the middle east situation when he got sworn in, and changed his mind.

Spending package ....looks bad. However, I think we all agree that something had to be done. That action is dependant upon which party is in power. Republicans say cut taxes and let the markets sort it out. Democrats say raise taxes and pour in money to programs. Who is right? History will be the judge here. I'll admit I have my concerns, but hey......what can I (or any of us) do about that now? Might as well try and stay as positive as possible.

Cutting pork....When will people wise up? Every politician promises this, and nobody can deliver on it. Why? Politics. Pork is a way of keeping the home constituients happy. Votes to approve pork bills are like currency....they're traded and billed. The system sucks, but again.....whatcha gonna do? There was a movement awhile ago called "Throw the bastards out", or something like that. It advocated getting rid of all the current congressmen and senators and starting over from scratch. This idea sounds better and better every year to me.....

energy....To me, this is a big one. I know the economy sucks, but I think we MUST invest money into alternative energies to get us off oil. My only complaint is that Obama seems to be caving in to the left by not considering nuclear energy. I think we have to think about ALL possible energies to get us out of the imported oil mess.

All in all, I don't know how things will work out. As a Christian, I can have faith that nobody can sway the will of God......and, as God instructs, I will be faithful to my government.

[pattygreen 5]

Patty, I didn't vote for Obama either. It was because he's black.

Soooooo glad that's a joke! lol

Just kidding. I just didn't agree with his politics. However, he is now our president and I think that all Americans need to give him the benefit of the doubt. Don't be like those annoying liberals that constantly disrespected Bush with ill thought-out personal attacks because they disagreed with him politically.

I'm not attacking him personally, just his actions.

I haven't seen where Obama has made any significant moves to promote abortion. He kinda has his hands full with the economy to address any controversial social issues right now. Are you speaking about "The conscience clause"? Because I think that's kind of small potatoes.

Didn't he (first thing) make it acceptable at any stage of pregnancy to get an abortion? I thought so, but I am going to look that up for sure.

Ending the war......easy to say, much more complicated to do. Personally, I felt a little reassured that Obama didn't just blindly pull out the troops without regard to what would happen, as opposed to seeing that position as a flip-flop. I think (maybe somewhat naively) that the president has access to a lot of information that everybody else doesn't have. Even members of congress. That's part of why I got annoyed with the people that claimed (and some continue to assert) that "Bush lied". My point is.....it looks to me like Obama got a little more educated to the middle east situation when he got sworn in, and changed his mind.

I FULLY agree with you on this. My point in bringing it up was to show how he broke yet another campaign promise to those who voted for him. I am sure that NOW that he is president he understands Bush's stand on the war, and why we are still in it. He is doing what Bush had planned all along. (Keeping them there for at least another 2 years). You are not naive to think that our Presidents have alot of info that we don't have. They do.

I just want to throw this out to you. I just finished reading a great book titled "The Faith of George W. Bush" It showed how he became a born again christian and what God had done in his life. Did you know that every morning before he began his day as Pres., he would pray for God's guidance in everything he said and did? Once when he was lying flat on the floor in his office face down in prayer, some men walked in and thought he was hurt. He got up and told them what he was doing. Any man who asks God to guide him is the kind of man I want running the country. He kept fowl language out of the White house, and set a great example for everyone who worked there.

Spending package ....looks bad. However, I think we all agree that something had to be done. That action is dependant upon which party is in power. Republicans say cut taxes and let the markets sort it out. Democrats say raise taxes and pour in money to programs. Who is right? History will be the judge here.

History has alredy shown us that NOT spending will get us out of it. Think back, if you're old enough, to the recession of the early 80's. It was just like today. No stimulus package or outragous spending by the gov. and things turned around on their own.

I'll admit I have my concerns, but hey......what can I (or any of us) do about that now? Might as well try and stay as positive as possible.

Cutting pork....When will people wise up? Every politician promises this, and nobody can deliver on it. Why? Politics. Pork is a way of keeping the home constituients happy. Votes to approve pork bills are like currency....they're traded and billed. The system sucks, but again.....whatcha gonna do? There was a movement awhile ago called "Throw the bastards out", or something like that. It advocated getting rid of all the current congressmen and senators and starting over from scratch. This idea sounds better and better every year to me.....

Agree. But it would only creep back in, don't you agree?

energy....To me, this is a big one. I know the economy sucks, but I think we MUST invest money into alternative energies to get us off oil. My only complaint is that Obama seems to be caving in to the left by not considering nuclear energy. I think we have to think about ALL possible energies to get us out of the imported oil mess.

True.

All in all, I don't know how things will work out. As a Christian, I can have faith that nobody can sway the will of God......and, as God instructs, I will be faithful to my government.

I only hope that we (America) will continue to be an ally to Israel. I hope that we will always defend them and help them, for if we don't I can see God's hand of grace turning away from this great country that God established as a place for christians to retreat to. It's true that no one can sway Gods hand. I must say, that though I'm not happy with the way this administration is spending money like its no big deal, I will never stop praying for it.

[mango24 1]

I don't feel like reading this thread cause I'm too tired to think. I just wanted to say, nothing we complain about makes any difference. It only makes the complainer unhappy. This package is a done deal. There's not a damn thing complaining will do about it. Just let it go Louie, let it go.

Let me tell you a story. Today I learned that another one of our 8th graders is pregnant. She is a crack baby. A 15yr old crack baby is having a baby. What will my complaining do about it? Not a damn thing. One of my teachers said, "Job security." Sick but true, job security.

So the moral, You can't change it, don't worry be happy. Don't let someone or something steal your joy.

Try to get a government job.......job security. Maybe something like printing money.

[plain 12]

I don't feel like reading this thread cause I'm too tired to think.

WTF, there was only like 4 entries, LOL. Are you calling me a bit verbose, Mango?

[BJean 16]

Obama promised to end the war in Iraq. He did not promise that it would be ended within the first few months or even the first year. What he did promise was a well thought out withdrawal of our troops. He never intended to just bring everybody and everything home immediately. That would be practically impossible and not in our best interests.

Having read a lot of your posts during the election process Plain, I am pleased to read your posts here now and to know that you are one of the people who is trying to wait and see and to possibly consider that change is what we need. Not more of the same, which is what the Republicans promised during their campaign.

I agree that the spending package is scary to think about. It may not be the answer. But it may also be the only answer. The U.S. isn't the only country trying to stimulate their economy in this way. Obama is a very intelligent man and he has done his homework. Hopefully the plan has merit and it will get the job done.

We tried not taxing the rich so that they would employ Americans and invest in improving this country. But giving the wealthy all the breaks that we did, obviously did not work the way Bush and Reagan and others have always promised that it would. The rich just kept trying to find ways to get richer and our country is in one heck of a mess due primarily to greed. So yeah Obama wants to upset the apple cart. What other new better plan was ever on the table?

[ariscus99 1]

Obama promised to end the war in Iraq. He did not promise that it would be ended within the first few months or even the first year. What he did promise was a well thought out withdrawal of our troops. He never intended to just bring everybody and everything home immediately. That would be practically impossible and not in our best interests.

Having read a lot of your posts during the election process Plain, I am pleased to read your posts here now and to know that you are one of the people who is trying to wait and see and to possibly consider that change is what we need. Not more of the same, which is what the Republicans promised during their campaign.

I agree that the spending package is scary to think about. It may not be the answer. But it may also be the only answer. The U.S. isn't the only country trying to stimulate their economy in this way. Obama is a very intelligent man and he has done his homework. Hopefully the plan has merit and it will get the job done.

We tried not taxing the rich so that they would employ Americans and invest in improving this country. But giving the wealthy all the breaks that we did, obviously did not work the way Bush and Reagan and others have always promised that it would. The rich just kept trying to find ways to get richer and our country is in one heck of a mess due primarily to greed. So yeah Obama wants to upset the apple cart. What other new better plan was ever on the table?

Dumping money into the economy to try and fix it is not a new better plan, we've tried this and it failed, Japan tried it during the 90's and failed, we're trying it again and so far...Fail! There's nothing new, except this time everything will lean left instead of right. Obama lies like every other politician, which is not really suprising. The people he's appointed are very questionable and so far he's done nothing to impress me, or anyone I know. Most of the hard core Obamaholics that I know are now shaking their heads with disbelief because guess what? he's just another politician who care's about his ideological agenda more then he cares about the US people.

[plain 12]

Dumping money into the economy to try and fix it is not a new better plan, we've tried this and it failed, Japan tried it during the 90's and failed, we're trying it again and so far...Fail! There's nothing new, except this time everything will lean left instead of right. Obama lies like every other politician, which is not really suprising. The people he's appointed are very questionable and so far he's done nothing to impress me, or anyone I know. Most of the hard core Obamaholics that I know are now shaking their heads with disbelief because guess what? he's just another politician who care's about his ideological agenda more then he cares about the US people.

Well, in that way, all politicians are the same. I don't think we'll ever get a president in my lifetime that will completely eschew political games in favor of the American public. In some ways, politics is loaded like that.....you could argue that the people that are drawn to public office in the first place are more likely to seek power and glory.

Ok, Kook alert: Here's where I show my weird-ish side...I think a big part of the problem is that we're now (for all intents and purposes with the federal matching election funds system) locked into a two party system in America. All the candidates that can afford to run, both Democratic and Republican, are pretty wealthy. They have to be, since there are only 2 viable paths into politics......I just think there is a huge disconnect between the real American public and the people that represent us.

Yeah, so I got into a rant and got off-topic. I don't agree with BJean on very much politically, but I do agree that there really wasn't a better plan on the table, and to blame Obama for wanting to spend his way out is like blaming birds for wanting to fly:That's what they do. Democrats tax and spend, Republicans lower taxes and spend.

[pattygreen 5]

We need some real campaigning reform. Wouldn't it be nice if each candidate had a small limit they could spend to promote their campaign and no more? This way, even the poor or middle class person could get elected.

[BJean 16]

The Congress is expected to wise up and make changes in campaign funding and establish some kind of term limits on their length of time in office? That's like putting the dog in charge of his feeding bowl.

Yes, I will admit that I have been very surprised at some of Obama's appointments and I am distressed that he wants to expand our presence in Afghanistan.

Tell me that you Republicans weren't a bit surprised and disapointed in some of the things that your president did while he was in office over the past 8 years.

If you weren't, that's shocking to me.

On a positive note regarding our current president, I believe that he actually does care about this country - for gosh sakes it's his country too! And some of his choices have been made because he is trying very hard to reunite people in this country and to limit, at least to some extent, the very partisan way we have been controlled for so long.

It would be great if we could get away from the 2 party system. The Republican party is so fractured at this point that maybe it could happen. Of course we all thought that the Democratic party was going to fall apart and create another choice for us, but it didn't. So it's hard to be optimistic about the possibility of changing from a strictly 2 party system.

But best case senario, Obama leads us out of this horrible slump and we get on a course that takes us all in a better direction - one that creates jobs and better schools and better medical care, and one that is fairer to the majority of Americans. If that happens we can all regain our sense of pride about what we thought our country stands for.

[pattygreen 5]

And worse case senario Obama leads us into an even worse situation with a monstrous debt we or our great, great grandchildren will never be able to repay.

[BJean 16]

Talk is cheap. What exactly have the Republicans done to fix the economy or plan for the future or to deal with any of the problems that are facing America today?

Because of the total lack of our government to do any of the things that have been desperately needed over the past 30 years, we are in a terrible bind. I charge any of these folks who are so quick to criticize action on the part of our curremt Congress and President, to come up with a better plan. They have had ample time in office to fix what is broken and they have only contributed to the ailment - which has developed into an illness that is worse than any pneumonia in the world. Now they need to come up with a better plan or get the hell out of the way.

This bellyaching is obviously preying on the fears of Americans. It is business as usual with the Republicans. Haven't they learned anything from the many years that they have been in charge at the White House and Congress? Remember they were also in power in Congress during most of the Clinton administration and fought him every step of the way during his term of office, beginning with the his first day on the job. They're trying the same tactics now, but they have proven what they're up to and the American people aren't buying their fear mongering any longer. We've finally got a grip on reality and we're not going to take it anymore!

[plain 12]

The Congress is expected to wise up and make changes in campaign funding and establish some kind of term limits on their length of time in office? That's like putting the dog in charge of his feeding bowl.

Exactly. That's why substantial campaign reform will never happen.

Yes, I will admit that I have been very surprised at some of Obama's appointments and I am distressed that he wants to expand our presence in Afghanistan.

Why? The appointments are political rewards for support. Every president does that. Or were you surprised that the majority of them owed taxes? Because I believe that's business as usual in Washington. RE: Afghanistan...you shouldn't be distressed. You should be reassured that he's not totally sticking his head in the sand. Granted, I don't agree with many of Obama's policies, but I think a presence in Afghanistan was inevitable, regardless of who got elected.

Tell me that you Republicans weren't a bit surprised and disapointed in some of the things that your president did while he was in office over the past 8 years.

Of course I was. But....he was your president too, ya know.

some of his choices have been made because he is trying very hard to reunite people in this country and to limit, at least to some extent, the very partisan way we have been controlled for so long.

Well, I haven't seen very many bipartisan actions yet, BJean. In fact as of right now, I can't really think of a single one. Of course, I don't mean that as a negative reflection of Obama as such....it's just something that every president does. Who was the last TRULY bipartisan president that you can think of? I can't name one in my lifetime.

It would be great if we could get away from the 2 party system. The Republican party is so fractured at this point that maybe it could happen. Of course we all thought that the Democratic party was going to fall apart and create another choice for us, but it didn't. So it's hard to be optimistic about the possibility of changing from a strictly 2 party system.

It will never happen. Because the two parties make the rules. They're not going to share their piece of the pie with independants.

But best case senario, Obama leads us out of this horrible slump and we get on a course that takes us all in a better direction - one that creates jobs and better schools and better medical care, and one that is fairer to the majority of Americans. If that happens we can all regain our sense of pride about what we thought our country stands for.

This is where we fundamentally disagree. I am pround right here and now of what my country stands for. I don't think America is about penalizing hard work and financial success, but that's indirectly what Obama is doing. "Fairer to the majority of Americans" is vague and subjective. To me, it means the government getting the hell out of the individual's way. Better schools and medical care? Great...but again, I think the government is only gonna muck all that up.

[BJean 16]

You're right about Bush being my president too. It was very hard to stomach. Probably no different than how you feel about a Democrat being in office. But I did lose pride in my country because of the policies he adopted while he was in office. The country changed, and not for the better.

But the difference between the Democrats and Republicans when it comes to taxes is not that Republicans don't believe in taxes or reducing the size of government, they just say that they do. In reality they don't. They believe that if you give tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations, it will generate an economy that produces more jobs and benefits, indirectly, for middle and lower income people. That has been proven year after year that it just doesn't work. It didn't work when Reagan was president, or when George H.W. Bush was president or when his son was president. And btw, there is a clear minority of the very wealthy in this country and that is not subjective or vague.

Democrats are honest about their plans. It sets them up for criticism because by contrast to the Republicans who SAY they aren't for taxes, it makes them look like "tax and spend" people, which in reality both parties are. Although as I said, the Republicans don't want to tax wealthy or higher income people and Democrats think that the wealthy should pay their fair share.

If giving the wealthy tax breaks did work, I would be all for it. Because although we are not Bernie Maddoff wealthy, we will be paying more taxes under the new rules. We own a business too and I believe that if we hire our computer work out, it will not be to India or any other foreign country. We'll get out of the business before that becomes acceptable to us.

Of course politics is partisan. Of course every president chooses people from his own party for his cabinet. But for the first time in a very long time, the president has not made all of his appointees exclusively from his own party. And he has already reached out to the opposition party, which past administrations seldom did, except for Reagan, who did it often and it was very effective.

I understand the reason for our presence in Afhganistan but I disagree that it is necessary. I know that Pakistan and Iran are huge concerns for us, but to keep pouring money down that Afganistan rat hole is not helping our economic situation. I wonder why our government hasn't learned a lesson from both our military presence in Afghanistan and Russia's prior to ours. And the Taliban continues to grow and are a bigger a threat around the world everyday.