Bet you're sorry you voted for Obama now

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Health care reform negotiations:

Republican Senator Kyl* (Arizona) criticized democrats for negotiating for healthcare behind closed doors. But now that democrats and republicans are to be on tv for the negotiations he said: well, you know some of these negotiations need to take place behind closed doors.

*You may recall that during the senate healthcare debates last year Sen. Kyl said he didn't know why maternity care was in the health bill because he didn't need it.

Re: healthcare debate

Seems like Boehner was complaining about not getting input on the healthcare debate and not having them televised.

Well, he was invited to a bipartisan healtcare summit next week and now he's worried about the size of the room, whether there will be tv cameras and whether it is a "set up".

Are you kidding me?? The size of the room, a set up and tv cameras?

Edited May 14, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[ariscus99 1]

[COLO=red]So on your paycheck stub there will now be a "cap and trade" tax deduction? I guess if you make over $250,000 and smoke and the cigarette tax goes up, you will pay more. ROFLMAO.[/color]

So your saying that if crap and tirade is passed, it will have no affect on American's making less then $250k a year? A tax doesn't need to be deducted from your payroll to affect you. If the government added an additional 5 cent tax to all gasoline purchases would that not be a tax increase on people making less then $250k a year? And, the big one you didn't mention was taxing of health care benefits, which as bo made ever so clear during the campaign has never been done before, but it is now, thank you mr president.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

So your saying that if crap and tirade is passed, it will have no affect on American's making less then $250k a year? A tax doesn't need to be deducted from your payroll to affect you. If the government added an additional 5 cent tax to all gasoline purchases would that not be a tax increase on people making less then $250k a year? And, the big one you didn't mention was taxing of health care benefits, which as bo made ever so clear during the campaign has never been done before, but it is now, thank you mr president.

The tax on the cadillac plans would only affect those plans that are like over $28,000 for a family (more for unions) and they don't take effect until I think 2014. Now, unions negotiate for these benefits. The tax is actually on the healthcare provider who will likely pass it on to the consumer. However, the unions negotiate their contracts. Do you really think they're not going to ask for more in salary if they pay a tax on the amount of their benefit that exceeds this limit? Of course they are. And they'll still have great healthcare coverage.

As far as cigarette and gasoline taxes - Obama never promised not to raise those. He was talking about payroll and capital gains taxes. Taxes on the money your earn and invest, not on discretionary spending.

[ariscus99 1]

The tax on the cadillac plans would only affect those plans that are like over $28,000 for a family (more for unions) and they don't take effect until I think 2014. Now, unions negotiate for these benefits. The tax is actually on the healthcare provider who will likely pass it on to the consumer. However, the unions negotiate their contracts. Do you really think they're not going to ask for more in salary if they pay a tax on the amount of their benefit that exceeds this limit? Of course they are. And they'll still have great healthcare coverage.

As far as cigarette and gasoline taxes - Obama never promised not to raise those. He was talking about payroll and capital gains taxes. Taxes on the money your earn and invest, not on discretionary spending.

They can negotiate whatever they want, that is clearly not the point. One of bo's big points throughout the 08 campaign was that Mccain had proposed a tax on health care benefits and that had never happened before, and he under bo he would make sure it never would....oops another lie.

He said, no new taxes on people making less the 250k a year. That means no new taxes. Not no new taxes of this kind or that kind. If you make the promise for NO NEW TAXES the people expect, you guessed it, no new taxes. So now he's gonna tax in other places and pretend it's not his fault. Yeah those things are discretionary, but so is income tax, I can choose to make no money and not have to pay any taxes, I can choose not to ever own a home or rent one, I can choose to be homeless and live off the land and never pay any taxes, thats not the point, to call something like gasoline discretionary is so far out of touch with reality it's almost comical. What are your options? Public transport? Great if you live on the east coast, what about the west coast and middle America where public transportation is pitiful? And you will still pay a tax on gasoline or diesel because the transportation companies will pay it and pass it on to you. So another bo lie. New taxes for one and all under bo.

[tdslf1 0]

Minute details. Sure we pay taxes and we will pay more. What the hell is wrong with that when we have to pay for this country to run and the former president kept us going in the wrong direction, thus we need to tax? People say stop the spending. Great, we can do that, now what? War still has to be paid for, roads still need to be built, police still need to be there to keep law and order, we still need to build that fence around the country, the poor still need health care. We are going to stop dead in outr tracks and pay for this HOW? Do I hear crickets from the rethugs?

How would we not have to pay more taxes? Come up with a solution that can work, not just harp on this bull--- mantra of "reign in the spending' the tea baggers keep harping about. We can't reign in the spending and lower the taxes for long cause that ain't gonna work when there are ongoing activities and activities that need funding coming down the pike.

That is why I think the tea baggers are simple and short sighted. They hold small claims against a president when he has accomplished more important big things that you can acually see, like turning the economy around. But these things are trivial to them. They mean nothing to them.

CL, I see you posted some campaign promises that Obama made. Bottom line, no president can do all of that but they can try and succeed on some big ones and some small ones. Obama has done that in his first year. I can't even remember what Bush promised because everything went to hell in a handbasket right after he took office.

If Obama completes even half of what he says he wants to do and apparently that website seems to be keeping up with it, he has my vote in 2012 so he can possibly finish the job.

Ari, great you don't like him and you didn't vote for him, whatever, but don't post this minor bull--- like you don't know how politics work and that the senate can veto anything he runs down the pike, so the man is limited in what he can do. Also don't act like you're not smart enough to realize that we have to raise taxes to pay for these wars and other stuff we need. Great, you caught Obama in a pledge he can't fullfill by keeping taxes lower for the poor. You get a gold star for being partially right about raising taxes, but a demerit for calling foul when the previous administration put him in a position to where he had to raise taxes or we would have stayed in the ditch.

The difference between the libs and the repugs, we know all campaign promises are contingent on senate approval and we might not get all we want, but we may get some. Any person that keeps in touch with politics understands we need to raise taxes to pay for it all. Rethugs got a war us libs didn't want, but we took that hit. Now us libs got healthcare, so rethugs its your turn to take the hit. This means taxes, bottom line.

We all got something we wanted, now its time to stop griping figure out a way to pay for it.

[phil1336 0]

The only point in aricus99 rant that was true IMO was the proposed health care reform bill that is supposed to sur-tax the so called Cadillac Health PLans that have great coverage. That would include all present and retired Federal Employees that have the Federal Employees Health Benefit Plans. What about the biggest and best Cadillac Health Plan of them all... that covers everything and anything......Medicaid! Do they plan on attempting to recoup these sur-taxes from the poor and those living in object poverty too?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

They can negotiate whatever they want, that is clearly not the point. One of bo's big points throughout the 08 campaign was that Mccain had proposed a tax on health care benefits and that had never happened before, and he under bo he would make sure it never would....oops another lie.

He said, no new taxes on people making less the 250k a year. That means no new taxes. Not no new taxes of this kind or that kind. If you make the promise for NO NEW TAXES the people expect, you guessed it, no new taxes. So now he's gonna tax in other places and pretend it's not his fault. Yeah those things are discretionary, but so is income tax, I can choose to make no money and not have to pay any taxes, I can choose not to ever own a home or rent one, I can choose to be homeless and live off the land and never pay any taxes, thats not the point, to call something like gasoline discretionary is so far out of touch with reality it's almost comical. What are your options? Public transport? Great if you live on the east coast, what about the west coast and middle America where public transportation is pitiful? And you will still pay a tax on gasoline or diesel because the transportation companies will pay it and pass it on to you. So another bo lie. New taxes for one and all under bo.

First of all, McCain's tax was on all healthcare benefits. Under this healthcare plan, it's only only the cadillac plans and the tax is on the healthcare provider. If those healthcare providers pass it on to the consumer, that's the cost of doing business with them not a broken campaign promise. All businesses pass on their added costs to the consumers. That can hardly be blamed on Obama, though I'm sure you and those on the right will try.

You extrapolate to the ridiculous about not making an income to avoid income tax or being homeless to avoid property tax but somehow ridicule my point that spending on gasoline is discretionary :w00t:.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Minute details. Sure we pay taxes and we will pay more. What the hell is wrong with that when we have to pay for this country to run and the former president kept us going in the wrong direction, thus we need to tax? People say stop the spending. Great, we can do that, now what? War still has to be paid for, roads still need to be built, police still need to be there to keep law and order, we still need to build that fence around the country, the poor still need health care. We are going to stop dead in outr tracks and pay for this HOW? Do I hear crickets from the rethugs?

How would we not have to pay more taxes? Come up with a solution that can work, not just harp on this bull--- mantra of "reign in the spending' the tea baggers keep harping about. We can't reign in the spending and lower the taxes for long cause that ain't gonna work when there are ongoing activities and activities that need funding coming down the pike.

That is why I think the tea baggers are simple and short sighted. They hold small claims against a president when he has accomplished more important big things that you can acually see, like turning the economy around. But these things are trivial to them. They mean nothing to them.

CL, I see you posted some campaign promises that Obama made. Bottom line, no president can do all of that but they can try and succeed on some big ones and some small ones. Obama has done that in his first year. I can't even remember what Bush promised because everything went to hell in a handbasket right after he took office.

If Obama completes even half of what he says he wants to do and apparently that website seems to be keeping up with it, he has my vote in 2012 so he can possibly finish the job.

Ari, great you don't like him and you didn't vote for him, whatever, but don't post this minor bull--- like you don't know how politics work and that the senate can veto anything he runs down the pike, so the man is limited in what he can do. Also don't act like you're not smart enough to realize that we have to raise taxes to pay for these wars and other stuff we need. Great, you caught Obama in a pledge he can't fullfill by keeping taxes lower for the poor. You get a gold star for being partially right about raising taxes, but a demerit for calling foul when the previous administration put him in a position to where he had to raise taxes or we would have stayed in the ditch.

The difference between the libs and the repugs, we know all campaign promises are contingent on senate approval and we might not get all we want, but we may get some. Any person that keeps in touch with politics understands we need to raise taxes to pay for it all. Rethugs got a war us libs didn't want, but we took that hit. Now us libs got healthcare, so rethugs its your turn to take the hit. This means taxes, bottom line.

We all got something we wanted, now its time to stop griping figure out a way to pay for it.

WOW!! Very well said. One of the best posts I've read. :w00t:

[BJean 16]

I love the car stuck in the mud analogy.

[pattygreen 5]

ariscus, Obama has broken most all of his promises. You and I know that, but those who worship him will never admit to it because where would they go from there? He has the answer to the world's problems as far as they can see. What a shame.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

ariscus, Obama has broken most all of his promises. You and I know that, but those who worship him will never admit to it because where would they go from there? He has the answer to the world's problems as far as they can see. What a shame.

I have posted the facts of his accomplishments on here many times. It is you who ignore them and just continue to bash him. He has done an amazing job especially considering what he inherited. And he has done it in a relatively short period of time.

I don't recall anyone saying that he has the answers to the world's problems, but he has elevated the opinion other countries have of us, from an all time low under bush.

[tdslf1 0]

PG,

I put you in the same category as the tea baggers. Your arguments hold no Water. I am beginning to think you can't read some post and that Fake Noise has a whistle only people like you can hear when you COMPLETELY ignore CL's post. Soon as facts come in front of your eyes, the whistle sounds off.

This thought. If that website posted ALL lies regarding what Obama has done(and take the accomplishments that CL posted point by point so we can all see his lies) show it, otherwise don't waste our time with Fake Noise talking points because you're too afraid to read.

This is a debate about lie and fact and if I am believeing in lies, as you say, then I would like to see it. Not be subject to emotional outbursts about the president that don't help the conversation.

[tdslf1 0]

PG says,

Obama has broken most all of his promises.

Put your money where your mouth is, and show us. Point by point from Cleo's post.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

PG says,

Obama has broken most all of his promises.

Put your money where your mouth is, and show us. Point by point from Cleo's post.

Great idea. And while she's doing that, I have been waiting and waiting for her to show the proof for her following "claim":

from pattygreen:

The HC bill came back with a figure of $800 billion, and a week after it passed we found out it would cost $1.2 trillion. That's a difference of $4 billion dollars This bill is going to kill an economy that is just beginning to rally. We need to repeal it!

PROVE IT OR ADMIT IT WAS A LIE!!!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And while we're asking for proof - I'm still waiting for proof from ariscus99 that there were those who wrote papers saying bush had autism or Down's Syndrome.