Bet you're sorry you voted for Obama now

[pattygreen 5]

{quote} If that is the case and free birth control would say reduce unwanted pregnancies by 50% and abortions by 25% wouldn't you support that? And if not, why not?

No. Just as I don't support the government paying for you to have a new home, I don't support the government giving away free contraceptives. I don't think the government should give ANYTHING to anybody. People should work for their living. I am okay with SOME government assistance for a time to give a hand up to someone in desperate need, but never a hand out that fosters dependency on them. I don't believe the gov. should pay for half the crap they fund. Be personally responsible why don't ya?! Is there anything else you want the rest of America to pay for for you? How about your hair appointments. After all, you can't find a decent job if you don't look your best.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

{quote} If that is the case and free birth control would say reduce unwanted pregnancies by 50% and abortions by 25% wouldn't you support that? And if not, why not?

No. Just as I don't support the government paying for you to have a new home, I don't support the government giving away free contraceptives. I don't think the government should give ANYTHING to anybody. People should work for their living. I am okay with SOME government assistance for a time to give a hand up to someone in desperate need, but never a hand out that fosters dependency on them. I don't believe the gov. should pay for half the crap they fund. Be personally responsible why don't ya?! Is there anything else you want the rest of America to pay for for you? How about your hair appointments. After all, you can't find a decent job if you don't look your best.

IF, and that's a big IF, you are concerned about saving fetuses then you have to be willing to give up something for that to happen. Yes, actually concede a point. I just showed you a study that showed that free birth control reduced abortions. So you have to be willing to give up your rigid, punitive view of this issue and be willing to allow for free birth control.

You can't have it all your way. The bottom line for you should be the saving of the fetuses. Period. NOTHING ELSE. Get it? NOTHING ELSE. So, if it takes free birth control, your attitude should be "well, then so be it, that's a small price to pay for all those lives I claim to care about"

But that isn't what you care about - it's all personal responsibility, laws, breaking the laws, punishment, consequences and jail.

You have zero credibility on this issue so just quit talking about it.

[girl55 5]

I hate this thread!

[tdslf1 0]

PG,

I think you just intepreted what GOD said was free will to your will. I give up when you start speaking for God. God gave you his teachings in the bible according to you for all of us to follow. IF WE CHOSE TO FOLLOW. I choose for people to choose what direction they go into and you compare that to stoping them from making that choice?

I am still lost on how you get to say no they can't have abortions if God is the judge and they have free will just like you do? If the free will statement is true, you can like it or not but trying to force your choice of NO onto them and God said that is not your role to do, but his? You say we are forcing our choice of choice on you? We don't care whether you have an abortion or not. We stand on both sides, have one or don't, you choose and have to face God. We don't make those judgements except for oursleves, not for other people. You however stand on the no choice side and thus take Gods role and try to force YOUR choice on them. They have the right to make that choice, God said that or not?

Yet, your God gave us free will and you want to change that to suit your way of thinking. I thought there was a bowing to his wisdom and all that that you followed? Maybe you don't accept that God gave people free will. Maybe that is part of the bible you don't follow or accept?

[tdslf1 0]

PG,

Another thought. Maybe you think free will is great as ong as it does not go against what you think is free will? You sighted several instances in the last post about should we allow people to kill themselves or help the unborn and other things I can't remember to sight. I say all of it is choice in all its misguidedness and triviality. Everyone has a choice to follow or not to follow and that includes if we think of an abortion as murder or not. I personally don't look at it from that point of view but you do. That is both our choices to look at it differently.

On the abortion issue I bow to Gods judgement and leave mine out of it. I don't question why he allowed many to think it is acceptable to have an abortion. That is for him to understand, not you or I. I accept that he has said humans can make that choice, but your response in the above post leads me to believe that you don't think he is right to allow that choice. Or maybe you have less of an understanding about Gods use of free will than you think.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't say on one hand that God gave us free will and you believe it and then turn around and tell me I don't have the free will to have an abortion. And I will state it again. If you have the free will to say no and I have the free will to say yes, why is it your first thought to judge me when only God can do that?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

"The political world created whole new rules for Barack Obama"

Tue Jun 01, 2010 at 07:50:55 AM PDT

President Obama was schedule to participate in Memorial Day ceremony at the Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery in Elwood, Ill., but a huge storm canceled the event. When he returned in the evening to Washington, he addressed members of the military and their families in an improvised short event at Andrews Air Force base. None of this really matters, because he committed the unthinkable crime of skipping the ceremony at Arlington and chose to go to the - apparently not as sacred - "Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery" in Illinois.

More under the cut (Photos too).

This ridiculous manufactured controversy is hardly the first and surely not the last during Mr. Obama's presidency. Steve Benen had a terrific piece over the weekend, proving how "for a year and a half, the political world seems to have created whole new rules for Obama, which aren't applied to others -- and haven't even been applied to other presidents".

Few examples:

*

Teleprompters

: This trend of characterizing routine developments as controversial started very early in the Obama presidency. Every modern president has used teleprompters, but Republicans and the media thought it was hilarious and wildly important when Obama did the same thing.

*

Bowing

: Several presidents have been photographed bowing to foreign heads of state, but Republicans and the media thought it was absolutely scandalous when Obama did the same thing when meeting leaders where bowing is customary.

*

Talking to school kids

: Presidents Reagan and H.W. Bush spoke to school children in national addresses, even taking a little time to push their political agendas. When Obama delivered a speech encouraging kids to do well in school, Republicans freaked out; Fox News compared the president to Saddam Hussein; and the New York Times literally ran a front-page story about it.

* Czars

: For a half-century, presidents have relied on so-called "czars" for various policy areas. By one count, George W. Bush had 36 czar positions filled by 46 people during his two terms. No one cared. Obama's use of czars became the subject of months of media scrutiny, and even congressional hearings in response to Republican apoplexy.

*

Oval Office attire

: Several modern presidents have been seen in the Oval Office without wearing a suit jacket. When Obama did it, Republicans ran to the press to complain, and the media actually published pieces on the subject.

*

Criticizing partisan media

: White House complaints about unfair media coverage are as old as the republic. When the Obama White House noted what is plainly true about Fox News -- it's a Republican outlet -- the media went a little berserk, with the Washington Post and NPR characterizing the administration's criticism as "Nixonian."

*

Reconciliation

: Republican policymakers have relied on reconciliation to get around filibusters for decades. When Obama recommended the same tactic for health care, the GOP pretended it was an outrageous assault on the political process, and the media pretended Republicans' cries were legitimate.

*

Industry bailouts

: Government bailouts of struggling American industries and major companies have been common for decades. When Obama rescued GM, it was used as an example of his purported desire to a communist dictator.

*

Campaign intervention

: Every president has had a hand in campaign activities, with several presidents offering jobs to candidates to get them out of various races. When the Obama White House intervened in Pennsylvania's Democratic Senate primary -- offering a House member an unpaid advisory gig -- the media found it fascinating and Republicans called for the FBI and a special prosecutor to intervene.

/// More

On this matter, for a change, some parts of the MSM did their job. CBS' Peter Maer:

....Let's set the record straight. Mr. Obama will participate today in a ceremony at Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery in Elwood, Illinois, about 50 miles south of Chicago.

He is not the first president to be away from Washington on a patriotic holiday.

The critics were either ignorant of the facts or they failed to mention the 2007 Veterans Day ceremony when Vice President Dick Cheney spoke while President George W. Bush observed the holiday in Texas.

Vice President Dan Quayle laid the wreath at Arlington on Memorial Day, 1992. I recall covering President George H.W. Bush, a distinguished World War II vet, as he marked the holiday that year at his favorite vacation spot, Kennebunkport, Maine, where he spoke to a veterans group.

Back in 1983, a Defense Department official laid the Memorial Day wreath at Arlington when Ronald Reagan was at a G-7 Summit meeting in Williamsburg, Virginia.

/// snip

Some of Mr. Obama's conservative critics have also used his Memorial Day plan to question his commitment to the military.

Like his predecessors, Mr. Obama has expressed deep feelings about the troops in both words and deeds, often with as little fanfare as the presidency allows. Like other presidents, he meets privately with the families of the fallen....

Unlike other presidents, he paid a middle of the night somber visit to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware to witness the return of dead soldiers.

Perhaps the most eloquent statement on Mr. Obama's stand on the military comes from Gold Star Mother Carol Barbieri of Maryland. Her son, Army Specialist and paratrooper Thomas "TJ" Barbieri, was killed in Iraq in 2006.

TJ's brothers Stephen and Matthew were visiting his grave at Arlington on Veterans Day last year when Mr. Obama stopped to pay his respects. He asked about their loved one and expressed his appreciation for the sacrifice.

Responding to e-mailed questions last week, Mrs. Barbieri told me the family was grateful that the president "took the time to honor the memory and sacrifice of TJ, along with those of all of the others laid to rest alongside our son."

She noted it was apparently the first time that any president visited the graves in Arlington's Section 60, the burial place of many troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Asked about the president's decision to visit the Illinois cemetery on Memorial Day, Mrs. Barbieri said she and her husband Tom "both feel that there is no exclusivity for bravery and valor."

She noted, "Our heroes are interred all over the nation. The President of the United States should be remembering and honoring the men and women who have fought for this country. It doesn't matter where he does that as long as he never forgets them."

Poignant words to ponder for people on all points of the political spectrum, especially on this Memorial Day, 2010

dailykos

I just file this under more republican hypocrisy. Too bad they can't somehow collect all that republican hypocrisy and use it to plug the oil leak. Sure is enough of it to go around!

[pattygreen 5]

When you ask a liberal why he voted for a democrat, he will give you these answers:

1. I voted Democrat because I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't.

2. I voted Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

3. I voted Democrat because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.

4. I voted Democrat because I'm way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves.

5. I voted Democrat because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius.

6. I voted Democrat because I want to keep all death row inmates alive -- and living in conditions better than 75% of the rest of humanity.

7. I voted Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits.

8. I voted Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit.

9. I voted Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would never get their agendas past the voters.

[tdslf1 0]

Cleo says,

This ridiculous manufactured controversy is hardly the first and surely not the last during Mr. Obama's presidency. Steve Benen had a terrific piece over the weekend, proving how "for a year and a half, the political world seems to have created whole new rules for Obama, which aren't applied to others -- and haven't even been applied to other presidents".

This just makes it silly to the point of ridiculous. I see some of the same garbage spewed everyday that other presidents have done and they get a pass, even Clinton doing it. Makes you wonder why such an high degree of hatred for Obama?

I happen to be there yesterday at the memorial service at Elwood and people were not allowed to have umbrellas and it was raining pretty hard by the time he came out to speak. He saw that and told us to go to the car and if it stopped raining soon, he would come back out and speak so we didn't have to stand in the rain for the ceremony. He was very polite and removed his umbrella for a moment and he also got wet. Any controversy regarding that is BS and I'll call anyone on it.

[pattygreen 5]

IF, and that's a big IF, you are concerned about saving fetuses then you have to be willing to give up something for that to happen. Yes, actually concede a point. I just showed you a study that showed that free birth control reduced abortions. So you have to be willing to give up your rigid, punitive view of this issue and be willing to allow for free birth control.

You can't have it all your way. The bottom line for you should be the saving of the fetuses. Period. NOTHING ELSE. Get it? NOTHING ELSE. So, if it takes free birth control, your attitude should be "well, then so be it, that's a small price to pay for all those lives I claim to care about"

But that isn't what you care about - it's all personal responsibility, laws, breaking the laws, punishment, consequences and jail.

You have zero credibility on this issue so just quit talking about it.

Most liberals, who deplor the slaughter of baby seals, believe the slaughter of baby humans is not only morally justified, but the prevention of it, if they want the murders to end, should be financed by taxpayers as well as the abortions that doctors perform for the murderers.

Fundamentalists believe that children are a gift from God. Psalm 127:3 says, "Lo, Children are an heritage of the Lord..." Ruth 4:13 says, "...the Lord gave her conception, and she bear a son." Now, if God gives a life, is it not dangerous to abort that life? Is it not obvious that God stands to the right of the abortion issue?

The U.S. Supreme court, in 1973 made abortions legal, although no court can make something that is morally wrong, legally right in the sight of God. The court said that the baby does not have rights, although it has said that criminals, Communists and moral cripples do have rights! How did they get around the 14th ammendment that says "no state shall...deprive any person...the equal protection of the laws."? Easy! They proclaimed unborn babies as "non-persons," reminiscent of the 1857 Dred Scott Decision that proclaimed blacks were not "persons". Blacks could be personally bought, sold, beaten or killed by their owners. The 14th ammendment corrected that barbarism. We need another ammnedment to correct the barbarism of the 1973 decision and recognize unborn babies as "persons" with a right to life. IMO, people who have no problem hurting babies in the womb are no better than those who felt it was their choice at the time to hurt their slaves. "They weren't "persons" after all." :rolleyes:

Edited June 1, 2010 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

PG,

I think you just intepreted what GOD said was free will to your will. I give up when you start speaking for God. God gave you his teachings in the bible according to you for all of us to follow. IF WE CHOSE TO FOLLOW. I choose for people to choose what direction they go into and you compare that to stoping them from making that choice?

I am still lost on how you get to say no they can't have abortions if God is the judge and they have free will just like you do?

I can say "no, they can't have abortions" with my vote, just like you can say "yes, they can have abortions" with your vote. Your vote won in 1973, when they made abortions legal.

If the free will statement is true, you can like it or not but trying to force your choice of NO onto them and God said that is not your role to do, but his? You say we are forcing our choice of choice on you? We don't care whether you have an abortion or not.

My stand against the issue is for the baby, not me. The baby can't speak for himself. He has no voice, so others must speak up for him. Just like abused children in foster care. They have advocates who speak for them, because they are defenseless. The unborn baby can't defend himself against the sharp knife that scrapes him out of the womb, or the vacuum that sucks him out in small pieces, or the saline infusion that the child inhales which brings him into convulsions and then death after 2 hours or so, or the hysterectomy where the doctor takes out the helpless baby through an incision and then drops him in a bucket where he whimpers, sucks air and dies. I don't need to worry about myself and how the law will affect me, for I would NEVER consider doing that to anyone. I only consider it for the child.

We stand on both sides, have one or don't, you choose and have to face God. We don't make those judgements except for oursleves, not for other people. You however stand on the no choice side and thus take Gods role and try to force YOUR choice on them. They have the right to make that choice, God said that or not?

Yet, your God gave us free will and you want to change that to suit your way of thinking.

I thought there was a bowing to his wisdom and all that that you followed? Maybe you don't accept that God gave people free will. Maybe that is part of the bible you don't follow or accept?

I agree with free will to follow or not follow the laws.

Every person has the free will to make their own choices in life, but they will have to suffer the consequences for them, If they do right, the consequences should be favorable, if they do wrong, the consequences will be unfavorable.

Just because God gives us a free will, that doesn't mean he is giving us the freedom to do anything we desire. He is the one who hands out the consequences. Just like a parent with a child. If the rule in the house is bed at 9, and you stay up till 11, you will have a consequence to deal with. Mayber no phone usage for a week, or grounded to the house, etc.

[pattygreen 5]

PG,

Another thought. Maybe you think free will is great as long as it does not go against what you think is free will?

I never said you don't have free will. I know that everyone does. I can decide what to eat today, what to do with my time, whether to have an abortion or not, whther to wear green or yellow shoes, etc. (these are all free will choices)

Even though we have free will, we must still have laws that keep others safe from harm. Abortion harms people. It kills babies. You can make choices in life, (free will) JUST SO LONG AS THEY DON'T HARM OTHERS! We have laws against physical violence. We don't say, "oh, that's okay, punch your kid as much as you like, you have a free will" No, we make sure your "free will" is kept in check. We make sure that you don't abuse children. We have laws against sexual abuse. We don't say, "Go ahead, rape her. You're just exercising your free will that God gave you." No, we make sure that others are protected with our laws. Somehow, by Satan's hand I'm sure, in 1973, the law was changed to allow murdering babies in the womb by deeming them unhuman.

You sighted several instances in the last post about should we allow people to kill themselves or help the unborn and other things I can't remember to sight. I say all of it is choice in all its misguidedness and triviality. Everyone has a choice to follow or not to follow and that includes if we think of an abortion as murder or not. I personally don't look at it from that point of view but you do. That is both our choices to look at it differently.

On the abortion issue I bow to Gods judgement and leave mine out of it. I don't question why he allowed many to think it is acceptable to have an abortion. That is for him to understand, not you or I.

Not true. God has told his children to be a light in the world, so that others will know the truths he gave mankind. God did not allow many to think it is acceptable to have an abortion. Mankind has decided to think that way all on their own.

I accept that he has said humans can make that choice, but your response in the above post leads me to believe that you don't think he is right to allow that choice. Or maybe you have less of an understanding about Gods use of free will than you think.

He has NOT said that humans can make that choice. He has said the opposite. If you take all of the scriptures in the bible concerning life, the womb, laws concerning death, etc. and put them all together, they add up to the baby in the womb being a real, LIVE person that God created and had a plan for. He says that He hates murder. When one person ends the life of another, it is murdering them. Period! But, you cartainly have the choice to kill your unborn baby or not. We all have many choices we can make during this lifetime. The consequences will be there for you, though.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't say on one hand that God gave us free will and you believe it and then turn around and tell me I don't have the free will to have an abortion.

I think you just don't understand. I will use this scenerio. Stealing is wrong. Would you agree? You have the free will to decide to steal from the store or not. If you do, you will go to jail. If you don't, you won't go to jail. God gave you the free will to make a decision on whether to steal or not. You can steal if you choose, although you will go to jail. The same with abortion. God gave you the free will to make a decision on killing your baby or not. If you do it, you will have committed murder. The laws in this country should say that you will go to prison, but they don't. If you don't have the abortion,nothing will happen to you. Now, those who have had abortions will be disciplined by God for that choice when they stand before his judgment seat at the end of time. The punishment for sin is eternal destruction. (Unless of course they recognize their sin and ask Jesus to forgive them for it.) That is a whole nother topic, and if you wish to discuss it, we can go on the "Is God Real" thread.

And I will state it again. If you have the free will to say no and I have the free will to say yes, why is it your first thought to judge me when only God can do that?[/QUOTE]

I did not know that I was judging you, personally. I don't make judgments. That's up to God to determine. I can only state what God tells us from the bible.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Most liberals, who deplor the slaughter of baby seals, believe the slaughter of baby humans is not only morally justified, but the prevention of it, if they want the murders to end, should be financed by taxpayers as well as the abortions that doctors perform for the murderers.

Fundamentalists believe that children are a gift from God. Psalm 127:3 says, "Lo, Children are an heritage of the Lord..." Ruth 4:13 says, "...the Lord gave her conception, and she bear a son." Now, if God gives a life, is it not dangerous to abort that life? Is it not obvious that God stands to the right of the abortion issue?

The U.S. Supreme court, in 1973 made abortions legal, although no court can make something that is morally wrong, legally right in the sight of God. The court said that the baby does not have rights, although it has said that criminals, Communists and moral cripples do have rights! How did they get around the 14th ammendment that says "no state shall...deprive any person...the equal protection of the laws."? Easy! They proclaimed unborn babies as "non-persons," reminiscent of the 1857 Dred Scott Decision that proclaimed blacks were not "persons". Blacks could be personally bought, sold, beaten or killed by their owners. The 14th ammendment corrected that barbarism. We need another ammnedment to correct the barbarism of the 1973 decision and recognize unborn babies as "persons" with a right to life. IMO, people who have no problem hurting babies in the womb are no better than those who felt it was their choice at the time to hurt their slaves. "They weren't "persons" after all." :confused:

Wow! You really dodged my post big time - baby seals, 14th amendment, slaves, and of course the ever present bible quote?

I guess that's what you do when my point is logical and yours isn't.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure we liberals would oppose the clubbing of born babies.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[peaches9 3]

We should all stop responding to PG's posts... SHe is an idiot(by free choice)

Lets get the subject back to Universal Healthcare for ALL Americans

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Things stupid people believe and therefore vote republican (an oldie but goodie and still valid):

Things Republicans Believe

1. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable

offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which

thousands die is solid defense policy.

2. Government should limit

itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning

gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

3. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

4. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s and John Kerry did in the 1970s is

of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.

5. You

support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can

tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.

6. HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

7. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

8. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

9. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in

speeches and to allow them to abuse prisoners of war while slashing

veterans' benefits and combat pay.

10. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.

11. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

12. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a

conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers

for your recovery.

13. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest

national priority is enforcing UN resolutions against Iraq.

14. Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but

crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of

illness.

15. "Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.

16. A

woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but

multinational corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind

without regulation.

17. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

18. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

19. Saddam

was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made

war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy

when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion. What he did to

prisoners was wrong and was justification for launching a war against

his country but when we do it, an apology will suffice.

20. Trade

with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with

China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I'm voting Republican because I LOVE this war, but have never actually served in combat!

I'm voting Republican because I campaigned on family values, even though there's a dead male hooker buried under the concrete in the floor of our shed!

I'm voting Republican because I believe that borrowing money to deficit finance a tax cut for rich people in the middle of a two front war, which we're also deficit financing, is sound conservative fiscal policy!

I'm voting Republican because I believe Jesus personally put Bush in the Whitehouse, and tucks him in every single night!

Why, I could believe in flying spaghetti monsters, and if you didn't yield before that belief, I could become offended to the point of being mortified that you don't respect my core values.

THAT'S why I'm voting Republican!

Well, on refelction, I guess the real reason I'm voting Republican, is that Koolaid is f*****g delicious.