Bet you're sorry you voted for Obama now

[pattygreen 5]

Your statement is absolutely retarded... So women who have a backstreet abortion deserve to die of septasemia??

Gee.... Did I say that women "deserve" to die? WOW!!!! I believe I said "suffer the consequence".

A drug user, who uses drugs illegally and breaks the law, just happens to overdose and die while doing his illegal thing. Does this mean that he deserves to die? No. But that's the consequence. If he wasn't doing anything illegal, he would not have died.

A woman who gives herself an abortion, because the law says that abortions are illegal, doesn't deserve to die, but that may be the consequence for breaking the law. The woman is not the only one who died. The life within her was taken as well by her act of disobedience to the law.

[pattygreen 5]

PG says,

I say that if you don't want a baby, get sterilized, or use birth control.

Plenty of people get pregnant on birth control

Not as many without it. It would cut the amount of abortions dramatically.

and why should someone get sterilized when they might want to have children later? See, your point is based upon the illogical conclusion that a women would never want children later with the sterilization statement. Start drawing logical conclusions to arguments before you cast it out there.

If they don't want to get pregnant, ONE option, besides birth control, is sterilization. They don't have to choose that option, but it is an option if they don't want to get pregnant. If they plan to have babies in the future, then use birth control. Duh!

This is what makes you come across as wingnut. Statements like that and because your argument is based on the premise that people have abortions because of a lack of wanting to use birth control. Many people get pregnant because they are ignorant of birth control, where to get it, how to use it, caught up in the moment, etc. Not because they use it as a form of birth control. One of the dumbest statements the pro-hypocrite lifers came up with yet.

I come across as a wingnut? Now I've heard everything!

[pattygreen 5]

Great, we all have a way of interpreting the bible and whether this is God's writings or mans. The point I try t make is, great, interprete how you want but don't force YOUR interpretation on ME. Keep yours and I will keep mine. I say live and let live. I don't come over to your house and start going off about your reading of the bible is wrong. I say every one has a right to think it says what they think it says. Have at it, knock yourself out with whatever you think. Just don't call me wrong if I support abortion or the gay lifestyle or any such issue. No one can judge me and mine, just like I try to not judge you and yours. Our political issues are not religious ones as far as I am concerned and your religious view has no place in it just like mine does not.

I am not trying to tell you what to believe. I feel the same way as you do. Go ahead and do what you like. Live any way you please. I do not have to answer to God for what you do, only what I do. But, I will have to answer to God for my choices and decisions in life. One of them is who I vote for and if they stand on God's principles or not. Would God be pleased with me if I voted for a person who is pro choice? I don't believe He would be. He might tell me,

"Patty, you know that I abhor the taking of life by man's hand, I gave my words to you so that you would know what my will is. Why would you vote for someone who would allow the laws in your country to accept that wrong doing?" (or)

He might tell me,

"Patty, you know how I feel about the sin of homosexuality, because I gave you my words so that you would know what my will is. Why would you vote for someone who would change the definition of the covenant that I set up between a man and a woman, called marriage, and thereby allow that sin to become an acceptable practice in society?"

You see, I, and every Christian out there, believe that we will have to answer to God for our choices in this life. I am not one to only worry about the here and now. I believe in eternal life that lasts forever after this one.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Gee.... Did I say that women "deserve" to die? WOW!!!! I believe I said "suffer the consequence".

A drug user, who uses drugs illegally and breaks the law, just happens to overdose and die while doing his illegal thing. Does this mean that he deserves to die? No. But that's the consequence. If he wasn't doing anything illegal, he would not have died.

A woman who gives herself an abortion, because the law says that abortions are illegal, doesn't deserve to die, but that may be the consequence for breaking the law. The woman is not the only one who died. The life within her was taken as well by her act of disobedience to the law.

Same old theme - breaking the law, illegal things, consequences.

As I have been saying - it'a all punitive to you. That is your message.

This is your attitude:

Women who have sex risk getting pregnant and if they do, well they made their bed let them lie in it. Don't expect me to support one tax dollar to help them get free and easy access to prescription birth control. Just make abortion illegal and throw them all in jail if they get one.

None of this has one thing to do with saving a "life" by preventing an abortion - it's all about laws, responsibility, paying the consequences, breaking the law, jail, etc.. Very condemning attitude.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[pattygreen 5]

Same old theme - breaking the law, illegal things, consequences.

As I have been saying - it'a all punitive to you. That is your message.

This is your attitude:

Women who have (unprotected or without contraceptives) sex risk getting pregnant and if they do, well they made their bed let them lie in it. (that's right. If they don't use birth control, they are prone to pregnancy)Don't expect me to support one tax dollar to help them get free and easy access to prescription birth control. (Sorry, but I don't condone the government using my money to pay for anyone elses expenses. I'll spend my $5.00 on condoms and so should you))Just make abortion illegal and throw them all in jail if they get one.(Yes. Make abortion illegal and make the consequences severe enough, so that others will not think twice about murdering a baby)

None of this has one thing to do with saving a "life" by preventing an abortion

How can you say that?! Of course it does! Lives WILL be saved, and abortions WILL be prevented! No doubt about it! Millions of babies are klilled each year from legal abortions. If they are not legal, more women would have their babies instead of aborting them, and More women will be SURE to use protection and birth control. If they know they can't abort legally, you can be certain that they will be more careful. This will prevent pregnancies.

- it's all about laws, responsibility, paying the consequences, breaking the law, jail, etc.. Very condemning attitude.

That's how we do things here in America. We make laws to protect others and ourselves. When they get broken, we give consequences. These consequences are given to deter people from breaking the law. If abortion were illegal, which it should be, and which is what we are talking about here, then killing babies would be against the law and consequences for those who break the law would be given out.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

That's how we do things here in America. We make laws to protect others and ourselves. When they get broken, we give consequences. These consequences are given to deter people from breaking the law. If abortion were illegal, which it should be, and which is what we are talking about here, then killing babies would be against the law and consequences for those who break the law would be given out.

Did you not read the study I posted where it showed that making abortion illegal does NOT reduce the number of abortions? Of course since it doesn't support your pre-conceived notions, you won't accept it.

Not every woman can afford birth control (oh, I know, then she shouldn't have sex - that's a mature, realistic attitude :thumbup:) and not all birth control works 100%. And it is not readily available to all women contemplating sex, especially young girls.

Like I said, if you really wanted to "save babies" then you wouldn't care about the cost of providing free birth control to women of all ages - but it's not about that. The saving lives should trump the cost of free birth control to taxpayers, but not for someone like you. If it were about saving babies it wouldn't be about laws, illegal abortions, consequences, jail, etc. It would be about - what can I do to reduce the number of abortions? Free prescription birth control for women regardless of age could reduce unwanted pregnancies? Then I support that. Sex education that provides students with truthful, correct information about sex and birth control and STD's could reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies? Well, I would support that. But of course, you would NEVER support either of these things, because like I said it's about punishment. It's a punitive attitude you have.

But like I said, it's not about that, it's all a very condemning, and I might add a snotty, superior attitude toward women who have unplanned pregnancies.

You anti-abortionists want it all your way. No abortions, no birth control (unless you give it your okay), no sex outside of marriage (like that's realisitc :smile2:) - there's no room for allowing for human elements - what real, actual humans do and the situations they find themselves in. Oh, no, they must act according to the RIGID RULES OF THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT!!

[tdslf1 0]

PG says,

I am not trying to tell you what to believe. I feel the same way as you do. Go ahead and do what you like. Live any way you please. I do not have to answer to God for what you do, only what I do. But, I will have to answer to God for my choices and decisions in life. One of them is who I vote for and if they stand on God's principles or not. Would God be pleased with me if I voted for a person who is pro choice? I don't believe He would be. He might tell me,

"Patty, you know that I abhor the taking of life by man's hand, I gave my words to you so that you would know what my will is. Why would you vote for someone who would allow the laws in your country to accept that wrong doing?" (or)

He might tell me,

"Patty, you know how I feel about the sin of homosexuality, because I gave you my words so that you would know what my will is. Why would you vote for someone who would change the definition of the covenant that I set up between a man and a woman, called marriage, and thereby allow that sin to become an acceptable practice in society?"

You see, I, and every Christian out there, believe that we will have to answer to God for our choices in this life. I am not one to only worry about the here and now. I believe in eternal life that lasts forever after this one.

Good, I am glad we are in argreement as to live and let live. Now do we both agree that God gave us FREE WILL? The will to make choices, good or bad? If the above statement is true, then why do you continue to force your will upon us? Now if you could only apply that to people outside this conversation. People who wish to "murder" by abortion should have that choice, which is what we have been trying to say all along. Your choice is your choice to follow God and their is to not. That is the point of choice. You choose to follow God's word as you say. Other people do not. MY point is you can't force people to follow YOUR choice. God gave us the choice to follow him or not. Some people choose NOT TO.

[Devana 0]

Keeping your fellow man safe from those who want to kill him is everyone's business.

Patty, you say preventing abortion is everyone's business and yet I've read your previous posts that say that the education and health care of a child is not.

I find this somewhat incongruous.

[pattygreen 5]

Did you not read the study I posted where it showed that making abortion illegal does NOT reduce the number of abortions? Of course since it doesn't support your pre-conceived notions, you won't accept it.

Study my butt! It was probably something the government just NEEDED to spend our money on:thumbup: I don't need no study to tell me that if abortions were illegal, there would be less of them.

Only by assuming that the unborn are not fully human does that argument work. If the unborn are not fully human, then the pro-choice advocate has a legitimate concern, just as one would have in overturning a law forbidding appendicitis operations if countless people were needlessly dying of both appendicitis and illegal operations. But if the unborn are fully human, this pro-choice argument is tantamount to saying that because people die or are harmed while killing other people, the state should make it safe for them to do so.

!Not every woman can afford birth control (Yes, they can, just skip ordering pizza tonight. It's all about priorities!) oh, I know, then she shouldn't have sex - that's a mature, realistic attitude :smile2:) and not all birth control works 100%. And it is not readily available to all women contemplating sex, especially young girls.

Like I said, if you really wanted to "save babies" then you wouldn't care about the cost of providing free birth control to women of all ages - but it's not about that.

These are 2 seperate issues. saving babies and giving handouts. Babies should be saved because it's the right thing to do. But why should I, or any taxpayer, have to PAY to keep you from creating someone to murder?! Huh? Why? I think you sould pay for your own birth control, just like I think you should pay for your own haircut, car, Dr. visit, house, etc.

The saving lives should trump the cost of free birth control to taxpayers, but not for someone like you. If it were about saving babies it wouldn't be about laws, illegal abortions, consequences, jail, etc. It would be about - what can I do to reduce the number of abortions? Free prescription birth control for women regardless of age could reduce unwanted pregnancies? Then I support that. Sex education that provides students with truthful, correct information about sex and birth control and STD's could reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies? Well, I would support that. But of course, you would NEVER support either of these things, because like I said it's about punishment. It's a punitive attitude you have.

But like I said, it's not about that, it's all a very condemning, and I might add a snotty, superior attitude toward women who have unplanned pregnancies.

You anti-abortionists want it all your way. No abortions, no birth control (unless you give it your okay), no sex outside of marriage (like that's realisitc :ohmy:) - there's no room for allowing for human elements - what real, actual humans do and the situations they find themselves in. Oh, no, they must act according to the RIGID RULES OF THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT!!

.................................................................................

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Originally Posted by Cleo's Mom

Did you not read the study I posted where it showed that making abortion illegal does NOT reduce the number of abortions? Of course since it doesn't support your pre-conceived notions, you won't accept it.

Study my butt! It was probably something the government just NEEDED to spend our money on I don't need no study to tell me that if abortions were illegal, there would be less of them.

Of course you don't believe it because you NEVER let the facts interfere with your wrong conclusions/opinions. At that's just what they are - opinions and they don't count for squat!! On top of that - they just sound plain stupid not to mention immature.

Only by assuming that the unborn are not fully human does that argument work. If the unborn are not fully human, then the pro-choice advocate has a legitimate concern, just as one would have in overturning a law forbidding appendicitis operations if countless people were needlessly dying of both appendicitis and illegal operations. But if the unborn are fully human, this pro-choice argument is tantamount to saying that because people die or are harmed while killing other people, the state should make it safe for them to do so.

!Not every woman can afford birth control (Yes, they can, just skip ordering pizza tonight. It's all about priorities!)Another stupid, immature opinion. All those teenage girls and single moms are rolling in money. oh, I know, then she shouldn't have sex - that's a mature, realistic attitude ) and not all birth control works 100%. And it is not readily available to all women contemplating sex, especially young girls.

Like I said, if you really wanted to "save babies" then you wouldn't care about the cost of providing free birth control to women of all ages - but it's not about that.

These are 2 seperate issues. saving babies and giving handouts. Babies should be saved because it's the right thing to do. But why should I, or any taxpayer, have to PAY to keep you from creating someone to murder?! Because saving "babies" should always trump cost if that's what it's about, but it isn't. Huh? Why? I think you sould pay for your own birth control, just like I think you should pay for your own haircut, car, Dr. visit, house, etc. These are not two separate issues. Government paying for birth control that could reduce unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortions is only two dots to connect. But apparantely that is too difficult for you.

The saving lives should trump the cost of free birth control to taxpayers, but not for someone like you. If it were about saving babies it wouldn't be about laws, illegal abortions, consequences, jail, etc. It would be about - what can I do to reduce the number of abortions? Free prescription birth control for women regardless of age could reduce unwanted pregnancies? Then I support that. Sex education that provides students with truthful, correct information about sex and birth control and STD's could reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies? Well, I would support that. But of course, you would NEVER support either of these things, because like I said it's about punishment. It's a punitive attitude you have.

But like I said, it's not about that, it's all a very condemning, and I might add a snotty, superior attitude toward women who have unplanned pregnancies.

You anti-abortionists want it all your way. No abortions, no birth control (unless you give it your okay), no sex outside of marriage (like that's realisitc ) - there's no room for allowing for human elements - what real, actual humans do and the situations they find themselves in. Oh, no, they must act according to the RIGID RULES OF THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT!!

Just another one of your stupid, blah, blah, blah posts. Move on pattygreen or come up with some new material. This is getting old.

And why don't you answer Devana's question - huh?

Edited June 1, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[tdslf1 0]

I guess there is no point in arguing my point. God gave us all free will to choose. God's point is that he gives us a choice to follow and some people won't and no man or women can force their choice upon another. God has that judgement to make.

[pattygreen 5]

Good, I am glad we are in argreement as to live and let live. Now do we both agree that God gave us FREE WILL? The will to make choices, good or bad?

Yes, I agree.

If the above statement is true, then why do you continue to force your will upon us?

I'm not trying to force my will upon you any more than you are trying to force your will upon ME! I vote according to my will, and you vote according to yours. Your will is that all women have a choice as to whether or not they can murder their children, and mine is to end the murdering!

Now if you could only apply that to people outside this conversation. People who wish to "murder" by abortion should have that choice, No, they shouldn't. We don't allow people to murder others in society, and this is why we fight for the unborn. We feel that they are human beings and deserve our protection. which is what we have been trying to say all along.

So, with that reasoning, why do we have laws against murdering ANYONE? People who know the truth about the unborn, (which is that they are living beings), have compassion for them. Just as much compassion as you would have on a 3 year old child. Can you not put yourself in the prolifers place? Those who truly believe with all their hearts that the fetus is a real, live, feeling, human being have compassion and love for all the murdered babies. Doctors have testified to seeing and hearing them screaming as they sucked them from the Uterus of their moms. All you're concerned about is the poor mother who might have to endure 9 months of pregnancy and be put out by this unwanted annoyance!

Your choice is your choice to follow God and their is to not. That is the point of choice.

God also says "thou shalt not steal." Should that be a choice? How about "thou shalt not murder? Should that be a choice? I could go on.

You choose to follow God's word as you say. Other people do not. MY point is you can't force people to follow YOUR choice.

But you can force people to follow yours? Your choice is to allow people to have abortions, mine is to not allow them. Right now, your winning in the FORCE dept.

God gave us the choice to follow him or not. Some people choose NOT TO.

And they have that right, by all means.

I like this analogy.

You may choose to drive your car off a bridge. That's your choice. Just make sure there aren't any passengers in the vehicle, cause it may not be what they would choose.

[pattygreen 5]

Okay, let's just say that we give free birth control to EVERY person in the world, and all the education they would ever need and anything else you would deem necessary, (heaven knows the government wastes more than it's fair share of funds on unnecessary crap all the time anyway) would you then vote to end abortions? Some how, I don't think so. So, it's not about getting your free handouts for the women is it? So why should it be for me?

[pattygreen 5]

Patty, you say preventing abortion is everyone's business and yet I've read your previous posts that say that the education and health care of a child is not.

I find this somewhat incongruous.

If you were standing on your sidewalk and saw a man walk by and threaten the life of a 6 year old child next door, would you call the police? Step in and protect him? Do something? If you answer yes, it's because you SHOULD! Just as preventing harm to that child is everyone's business, so is preventing abortion, which is death to a child just as sure as it is to that 6 year old.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Okay, let's just say that we give free birth control to EVERY person in the world, and all the education they would ever need and anything else you would deem necessary, (heaven knows the government wastes more than it's fair share of funds on unnecessary crap all the time anyway) would you then vote to end abortions? No, why would I? That scenario doesn't change anything for those of us pro-choice. Some how, I don't think so. So, it's not about getting your free handouts for the women is it? So why should it be for me?

Why should it be for you? Because YOU'RE the one who claims to want to save fetuses. Aren't you? If that is the case and free birth control would say reduce unwanted pregnancies by 50% and abortions by 25% wouldn't you support that? And if not, why not?

I want women to have access to safe and legal abortions. I don't want desperate women to have to seek out unsafe abortions.

Here's another study that you can ignore (and it's not even done by our government - gasp!):

Submitted by Deborah Mitchell on 2010-03-15

All about:

When Norwegian researchers offered free contraception for one year to young women living in Tromso and Hamar in Norway, the abortion rate in those cities was cut in half. Could free contraception be an effective way to reduce abortion rates in other cities around the world?

Norwegian Contraception Study

The Norwegian project, which was conducted on behalf of the Directorate of Health and by SINTEF Technology and Society (The Foundation for Scientific and Industrial Research), included 3,500 women ages 20 to 24. This is the age group with the highest abortion rate in Norway. Four cities were included in the project: two where women received free contraception and two used for comparison.

The investigators found that 93 percent of the Norwegian women studied reported using hormonal contraception, and that the number of women who used this form of birth control did not increase during the study. What improved, however, was their continuity of use. While the women tended to skip taking their hormonal contraception when they had to purchase it themselves and cost was a factor, they were more likely to not miss their doses when the contraception was free. Better compliance with contraception use leads to a reduced chance of pregnancy.

In Tromso and Hamar, the use of long-term contraceptive methods such as IUDs and hormonal spirals more than doubled. These methods are more expensive than the Pill as a one-time investment. According to Anita Oren, research manager of the study, “Women themselves say that they are very pleased to have the freedom to choose the type of product they prefer, irrespective of price.”

The contraceptive methods offered in the study included the Pill, contraceptive injections, Patches, vaginal rings, IUDs, implants, hormone spirals, and copper spirals.

Abortion Around the World

The Guttmacher Institute, a nonprofit that advances sexual and reproductive health worldwide through education, research, and policy analysis, notes that nearly 50 percent of pregnancies among American women are unintended, and 40 percent of these are ended by abortion. Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) in the US end in abortion. In 2005, an estimated 1.2 million abortions were done in the United States.

Globally, 46 million babies die from abortion, or about one baby every two seconds, according to the website Bound4life. More than half (56%) of all women who are having abortions between the ages of 15 and 44 are in their twenties.

It appears that offering free contraception to young women is an effective way to cut the abortion rate. In 2002, free hormone-based birth control was offered to Norwegian women ages 16 to 19, and abortion rates declined dramatically. When the one-year project was over, young women were offered reduced-rate contraception, and the number of abortions began to climb again. If offering free contraception works in Norway, it seems entirely possible that it could work in other places around the world. There appears to be workable solution to unintended pregnancies and abortions. Cities hand out free needles to drug users, why not contraception?

SOURCES:

Bound4life

Guttmacher Institute

SINTEF Technology & Society, Mar. 13, 2010

Edited June 1, 2010 by Cleo's Mom