Bet you're sorry you voted for Obama now

[pattygreen 5]

She doesn't have to, I will. It is flat out stupid to keep blaming the economic mess we're in on President Obama's "spending spree." Yours and people like you's insistence that big government, now that we have a Democratic President, is the problem and that our president is spending us into oblivion, is poppycock, pure and simple.

Will President Obama’s budget plan really increase deficit spending much more than other modern presidents? Well, yeah, to the tune of seven times more, measured as a percentage of economic output, than under President Kennedy over 45 years ago — as you can see in this chart.

You detest the fact that we have a Democratic President. You detest the fact that he cares about making changes in this country because you don't want change. You want to keep us in the America that allowed discrimination and white supremacy.

You are truly stepping out of line with that statement. You need to apologize for that. I believe you know that you are being untruthful about me here. Maybe you are just trying to get a negative response from me or something with your words, but I refuse to fall into that trap. Shame on you.

Furthermore, you have been manipulated by your politicians, who are driven by greed, to believe that supporting big corporations is more worthy than supporting your government.

You are wrong about what I believe, as usual. I believe that government should not be supporting or funding ANYONE'S business. Big or small. I believe that people have a right to make their own businesses grow and expand. The people also have a right to choose which businesses they will support.

And that is flat out stupid because history has told us that the Republican "trickle down" theory of economics absolutely does not work. And it's also been proven that without government interference and regulation, our economy won't make it.

I don't agree with that. I think that you put too much stock in your need for the government. But, I can understand how having the government there for you is a sense of security thay you and others are not willing to provide for yourselves.

In a perfect democracy it would work, but we don't have any such thing. What we have is a wealthy few who are amassing huge utterly unspendable in a life-time fortunes, on the back of the working class citizens. And people who can't think for themselves are championing that cause. It is so wrong and so backasswards it is bound to bite them in the butt eventually. Thank God.

............................

[pattygreen 5]

patty if someone wants to kill another human being you can't stop them. you can make it illegal but you can't stop it from happening before it happens.

Making abortion illegal will not stop abortions from happening either. I don't care whether you think it is murder or not. Some women are unable for many reasons, to survive a pregnancy. They have a right to their own lives. It may make you personally uncomfortable and unhappy, but it is a delimma that only the people involved can have the power to resolve. You cannot insert yourself into people's lives and tell them that they must die in order for a new life to begin. And even if you could somehow manage to do that, it would be wrong. You do not have that power and you do not in any way deserve to have that power.

To clearify myself, I want to say that I do not advocate women dying to save their babies. I believe in a persons right to self defense. If a pregnancy occurs that will endanger the life of the mother, then the mother should have a right to life for herself. I have always stated this when the abortion isssue is presented.

[BJean 16]

I will be happy to apologize for characterizing you the way I did just as soon as you stop making posts that prove that I'm right.

Sometimes I don't think you understand what you're saying. Because when someone calls you on something you've posted, you deny that you meant it the way it came across. Get some kahunas and stand by what you post. Or don't get so outraged when someone lets you have it for what you've put out in cyberspace. You just can't have it both ways.

[BJean 16]

To clearify myself, I want to say that I do not advocate women dying to save their babies. I believe in a persons right to self defense. If a pregnancy occurs that will endanger the life of the mother, then the mother should have a right to life for herself. I have always stated this when the abortion isssue is presented.

So exactly how do you propose that YOU determine what situation is life threatening ENOUGH for YOU to decide whether a woman can have an abortion?

See, my dear, YOU do not have that right. And legislators do not have that right. That is why it is untenable for lawmakers and people like the doctor-killer and the protestors outside of Planned Parenthood to insist on making abortion illegal. They just do not have the right to decide for EVERYONE what constitutes a life threatening condition for ALL women.

So continue fighting to save little children. Counsel women who are newly pregnant on how to have a safe, healthy pregnancy, birth, and delivery. Teach women how to safely raise an unwanted child. Give them your money to ensure that they can successfully create new life and add to the population of this great country of ours. Recruit the babies into the fold of your religion. But when it comes to taking away a woman's right to choose by making abortion illegal, back off. You do not and should not have that power.

[phil1336 0]

Blah,blah, blah. Don`t believe in reproductive freedom for Women and Abortion Rights...Great. Simply don`t have one! Since to the best of my knowledge, Men don`t get pregnant, this is strictly a Women`s issue anyhow. Whether one be Pro-life or Pro-choice, its a WOMEN`S decision to make and a private one at that. Remember, Hate The Sin, Love The Sinner, and by the way, how about adding, mind your own business![/QUOTE]

Keeping your fellow man safe from those who want to kill him is everyone's business.

There you gone again Patty with your biblical stretch. Most folks don`t consider a (fetus) a full term human being until the developed fetus gets delivered "alive" and is recognized at birth as a infant child. He we go again with your Stem Cell`s and opening up the Pandora`s Box of partial birth abortions too. Do "Creationist`s" believe that the Earth circles the Sun, the Moon circles the Earth and the Sun comes up in the East and Sets in the West? Is there anything that folklore and science can agree on?

[BJean 16]

Remember Phil, the Flat Earth Society is still alive and well.

[phil1336 0]

Remember Phil, the Flat Earth Society is still alive and well.

I see that Naugatuck, CT has an elevation of 273 feet above sea level....not a mountain by any means, but enough height to avoid joining the flat earth society. Hell, here in Monroe County- Key West, FL the highest point in the center of this Island which is only one and a half miles wide and 4 miles long, (Solares Hill) is barely 18 feet or 5.5 meters above sea level, and no one is buying into that nonsense either. For some its makes things some much easier when you differ all judgment to G-D (the Bible) said it, I believe it, and that settles it! Give me that "Ole Time Religion"! Must be fun working for the Texas School Board Book Advisory Panel. The scary thing is that these Tea Party Yahoo`s are editing and changing historical facts in school books that are distributed and purchased for use ALL over the nation. The "Dumbing" of America....its almost complete. President Bush even had the banner flying on the Aircraft Carrier...."Mission Accomplished" He wasn`t talking about the War in Iraq, just the moronic mindset of the Mass`s. Imagine an entire nation populated in the near future with nothing but slack jawed, mouth breathing fools toting guns and waving flags. The same people that show up at Veteran Cemeteries and picket Funeral services with Bill Boards claiming Gay`s and Lesbians are bringing G-D`s anger on us due to their immoral behavior. Nice send off for those who served our country with Valor and Bravery and had their lives (taken)! Anyone know where Joe the Plumber is? I gotta take a leak.

[tdslf1 0]

Abortion is a hot button issue, which will always be so. My thoughts on this are this. Women will always have abortions, they got them before when it was illegal and they get them now. The reason why they should stay legal is simple. Since we know women will have abortions regardless of the legality of it, why not make sure they are safe when they do get it which is why I think it will stay legal. This is one of those issues in which people are going to do it despite the dangers or not. No need to argue, pro choice won and I think so for a very long time to come.

[BJean 16]

I think you're spot on, Phil! The "Mission Accomplished" banner was in reference to the completed mission of sufficiently propagandizing American politics, not the war in Iraq.

That's why he was so happy sporting that $hit eating grin on his face.

You know he had help, years of it. Pat Robertson and his ilk constantly telling people what was meant when "Acts of God" occurred, like the earthquake that hurt so many in San Francisco, the hurricane in New Orleans, and so many disasters in between. George said God made him do it. So it must be right to corrupt the election. And it's certainly right that he drop bombs on Iraq.

It's all spelled out for us, if not in the Bible which they claim is the direct divine word of God, then we have all manner of religious spouters telling us what God means because God told them personally. And who can argue with that? If God spoke to someone how are you going to prove that he didn't?

It's a neat little package of ridiculous bastardization of an entire religion. And it's making America an unhealthy place to live.

[BJean 16]

Abortion is a hot button issue, which will always be so. My thoughts on this are this. Women will always have abortions, they got them before when it was illegal and they get them now. The reason why they should stay legal is simple. Since we know women will have abortions regardless of the legality of it, why not make sure they are safe when they do get it which is why I think it will stay legal. This is one of those issues in which people are going to do it despite the dangers or not. No need to argue, pro choice won and I think so for a very long time to come.

I don't know if you are aware of how rabid people are about abortion and getting it banned. They literally will stop at nothing to change the laws.

We can't take Roe v. Wade for granted. We have to stay on top of things or trust me, they will prevail. The minute we just say, it's legal so deal with it, is the minute they manage to creep people out to such an extent the powers that be will do something stupid.

Edited May 27, 2010 by BJean

[tdslf1 0]

BJ,

Not trying to marginalize the crazies, just hate the argument and some of the crazy things the other side says as though because we believe in choice, we have less moral value than they do. Like they are closer to God than the rest of us because of their stand, BS. Trust me, I am diligent with this garbage, determined that this country will not turn in to a religious rule of morality.

[BJean 16]

BJ,

Not trying to marginalize the crazies, just hate the argument and some of the crazy things the other side says as though because we believe in choice, we have less moral value than they do. Like they are closer to God than the rest of us because of their stand, BS. Trust me, I am diligent with this garbage, determined that this country will not turn in to a religious rule of morality.

I love what you've said. When I was arguing over at the abortion thread, there were lots of people who posted that they couldn't understand why we were even discussing it since it's already a law that women have the constitutional right to choose. That's why I responded in that way.

It is really a big mistake, I think, for so many fundamental extremists to try to force their beliefs on the rest of the world. And you'd think that they would understand the futility of it by watching the fundamentalist Muslims try to do the same thing.

My whole life I've been one who believes in the old adage, live and let live. Don't tread on me and I'll do you the same courtesy. The right wing extremists have gotten themselves all in a frenzy over this abortion rights issue and it has spread like wild fire into every other political issue. And they have become bitter and angry and antagonistic and as far as I'm concerned, they're dangerous. Timothy McVeigh dangerous. I've lived through too many asassinations and crazy bombings and stuff to think that they are insignificant and can be ignored.

Sorry, I promised myself that I wouldn't preach and here I am, going off again.

What I meant to say is that I respect your posts and you make some really great, valid points. You give me hope.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

2) How do you think the programs bush enacted are currently being funded? OBama was in the Congress when bush was in office as well as many other democrats like him. He voted for these spending sprees. Now he must find a way to pay for them.He wasn't in the senate when they voted to go to war with Iraq. And he voted against one of their funding bills when he was. However, the bigger point is that the republicans controlled the white house, congress and the senate. The blame belongs solely on them. They didn't need democratic votes to promote their spending spree. You are just another neocon trying to rewrite history and I won't let you. IT'S BUSH'S FAULT. PERIOD

When WE, as a nation, made the decision to go to war, EVERYONE in Congress was all for it. Whether they were dems or reps is irrelevent. The dems in this nation also wanted revenge for 9/11 and wanted to go to war. They thought, as Bush did, that Saddam was the cause of 9/11. I can remember that the whole nation banned together and wanted to go to war because of 9/11. What became of the war is a whole nother issue.

the American people were

failed by the majority of a Congress – a coequal branch of government – that voted to give the President the open-ended authority to wage that war. Let’s be clear: without that vote, there would have been no war.

The country was reeling after 9/11, and bush was spewing forth his one-liners: you're either with us or you're with the terrorists. Because the american people bought bush's lies that 9/11 was linked to Iraq, as did members of congress (who weren't allowed to see all the intelligence that bush saw), they were afraid not to vote to allow him the authority to wage war, but the republicans didn't need the democrats votes, they had enough. And Pres. Obama wasn't in Congress when they voted on the war.

And everyone in congress was NOT all for it. There were some brave enough to vote against it.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

{Cleo's quote}And I am sick of YOU constantly yapping about Pres. Obama's spending and the deficit. If it weren't for bush's reckless policies and his taking care of his rich friends with tax cuts, Pres. Obama wouldn't be stuck cleaning up his mess.

Say it again, Cleo's. Can you say it one more time?

I can say it as often as you post your lies about Obama and the deficit.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I will be happy to apologize for characterizing you the way I did just as soon as you stop making posts that prove that I'm right.

Sometimes I don't think you understand what you're saying. Because when someone calls you on something you've posted, you deny that you meant it the way it came across. Get some kahunas and stand by what you post. Or don't get so outraged when someone lets you have it for what you've put out in cyberspace. You just can't have it both ways.

BJean, why should you apologize to her when she has called me a racist and asked "are you black or something?" I'm still trying to figure out the "or something". Pattygreen likes to hurl insults but cries fowl when they come her way (or get threads shut down).