Bet you're sorry you voted for Obama now

[pattygreen 5]

Look around the World. Of the 10 biggest democracies in the WORLD ...ALL have publicly funded HealthCare (for everyone) the U.S. is the only country that dosn`t??? WTF??

And how is that working for them?, because all I hear about is how bad it is and how high their taxes are to pay for it.

Isnt`it a Christian value to` Love our Neighbor`` like ourselves? Ask yourself the question, if Jesus were here and offering suggestions... would he not agree that the wealthier amoung us put a little more in the plate so that even the poorest amoungst us would have basic health coverage??

Jesus never advocated for socialism. As a matter of fact, He said "Those who will not work, will not eat." and He said, "the poor we will have with us always." I believe that we all have the right to do as we please with the money we earn. Whether anyone gives it to help the poor or not is up to the individual who earned it, NOT the government. This is the whole point of the anger over the government dictating the peoples decision making. It's not about being generous to those who don't have much, it's about freedom and control and who has it... the government or the people. I believe that Jesus would suggest to people to be generous with what the Father has given them, and help those who need it, but he wouldn't make it a law. He would tell people that if you don't have Health Ins., and you want it, then work at getting a job that will pay you more or give you the benefits. Jesus loves charity, but he hates stealing, even if the goods you stole went to a worthy cause. Health Ins. is NOT a "right". It's a priviledge for those who can afford to buy it. It is not a good thing to go without, so people should make it their goal in life to achieve HI, just like they make it a goal in life to own a house or anything else of value. I would suggest skipping the new car payment and opt for HI instead. Buy a used car at a reasonable price instead of that new one with a monthly payment. I would suggest canceling cable, phone service and internet service in favor of HI. I would suggest that the cell phone get shut off and that the dinners eating out should end if you need to purchaser HI. But to suggest that others should foot the bill for you is maddeningly wrong, and unconstitutional.

Universal health care is not socialist or communist... what are you so afraid of? Sharing?????

You already consider EDUCATION to be a universal right in the U.S. and have your public school program, so you are already doing and acting like Socialists( your term not mine)

I personally do not feel that education should be paid for by everyone. Only those who have children in public school should foot that bill. I Home school my children and pay for all of their books and school materials myself. I do not approve of federal government paying for college for people either. Why should I have to pay for your further education so you could go out and earn big bucks? I can't even pay for my own children to go to college, but my taxes have to pay for yours?

So is Obama doing a good job so far? HELL YES:smile2:

He's doing a good job of spending this Nation into Oblivion. That's what a good job he's doing!

[LeighaMason 19]

Once again Patty only thinks it a good program if her family uses the service.

And then there is this jewel:

"And how is that working for them?, because all I hear about is how bad it is and how high their taxes are to pay for it."

Yeah it must be a real pain to live in one of those countries with such a high standard of living. Lets see, they are better educated than we are, they have better job benefits (hours & vacation), they have better health care, longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and lower crime rates. Yep, would really suck to be like them.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Originally Posted by peaches9

Look around the World. Of the 10 biggest democracies in the WORLD ...ALL have publicly funded HealthCare (for everyone) the U.S. is the only country that dosn`t??? WTF??

And how is that working for them?, because all I hear about is how bad it is and how high their taxes are to pay for it.That's because that's all you want to hear. Most people who live in a country with universal healthcare like it. No plan is perfect but they are just incredulous that a wealthy country like ours allows people to die without health insurance.

Isnt`it a Christian value to` Love our Neighbor`` like ourselves? Ask yourself the question, if Jesus were here and offering suggestions... would he not agree that the wealthier amoung us put a little more in the plate so that even the poorest amoungst us would have basic health coverage??

Jesus never advocated for socialism. As a matter of fact, He said "Those who will not work, will not eat." and He said, "the poor we will have with us always."There is plenty in the bible about helping the least among us. And if you believe that it only means neighbor to neighbor and not the government - then none of the other things that you say the bible is against (abortion, homosexuality). should be interfered with (i.e. no laws against) by the government, either. You can't have it both ways. I believe that we all have the right to do as we please with the money we earn. Whether anyone gives it to help the poor or not is up to the individual who earned it, NOT the government. The government, through our representation, most certainly DOES have the right to set where tax dollars go. That's the kind of government we have. This is the whole point of the anger over the government dictating the peoples decision making.That's why you elect congressmen and senators. You contact them about decision making. The government is us, it is you and me - something I keep reminding you. It's not about being generous to those who don't have much, it's about freedom and control and who has it... the government or the people.Again, Civics 101: government collects taxes and then dispenses them to programs and states. Your voice is your vote and your rep. I believe that Jesus would suggest to people to be generous with what the Father has given them, and help those who need it, but he wouldn't make it a law.He said render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's...that was the law then. He would tell people that if you don't have Health Ins., and you want it, then work at getting a job that will pay you more or give you the benefits.Really? He would say that? Would he tell the blind man or the cripple - sorry I can't help you - get a job and get health insurance? Jesus loves charity, but he hates stealing, even if the goods you stole went to a worthy cause. Health Ins. is NOT a "right".It absolutely is a right. It's one of the first rights we have after we're born - the right to receive health care that could prolong or improve our life or keep us from dying. It's a priviledge for those who can afford to buy it. It is not a good thing to go without, so people should make it their goal in life to achieve HI, just like they make it a goal in life to own a house or anything else of value.People lose their health insurance when they lose their jobs or when insurance companies drop them when they become sick or they can't get it due to a pre-existing condition - but I guess it was their goal to lose their job, or get sick. Too bad. What idiots they were! I would suggest skipping the new car payment and opt for HI instead. Buy a used car at a reasonable price instead of that new one with a monthly payment. I would suggest canceling cable, phone service and internet service in favor of HI. I would suggest that the cell phone get shut off and that the dinners eating out should end if you need to purchaser HI.Yes, why didn't the 34 million without insurance, many for the reasons I listed above think of these things? Wow, in addition to living beyond their means with the new car, cable, eating out, etc..they must be incredibly stupid. Perhaps a money making endeavor for the right would be to hold classes for these people and give them these suggestions. Nothing too expensive, just some classes at the local community college - maybe entitled: "No Health Insurance but driving a new car?" or "Watching cable but can't see a doc?" or "Eating out but no coverage for your diabetes?" But to suggest that others should foot the bill for you is maddeningly wrong, and unconstitutional.

Universal health care is not socialist or communist... what are you so afraid of? Sharing?????

You already consider EDUCATION to be a universal right in the U.S. and have your public school program, so you are already doing and acting like Socialists( your term not mine)

I personally do not feel that education should be paid for by everyone. Only those who have children in public school should foot that bill.Whether or not we have children we all have a vested interest in having an educated populace. It's part of a civilzed society. I Home school my children and pay for all of their books and school materials myself. I do not approve of federal government paying for college for people either. Why should I have to pay for your further education so you could go out and earn big bucks? I can't even pay for my own children to go to college, but my taxes have to pay for yours?

So is Obama doing a good job so far? HELL YES:smile2:

[tdslf1 0]

Peaches says,

I was talking to anyone who is interested in a healthy debate

You and me both, Peach. But a healthy debate involves facts from liberal as well as conservative sides. Here, with PG, no such thing exist. Our side has repeatedly called for PG to present facts, back up her arguments with facts not talking points. She can't do it. Just can't. Thus there will not be a healthy debate with her.

I and others point to the following exercise in which I asked PG to dispute information from a fact base reading about the administration which listed things Obama did. It has the following:

-Promises fullfilled

-Promises broken

-Promises in the process, etc.

True to form and in the spirit of debate after Cleo posted it, we asked can any of the accomplishments about what Obama has done for this country that are listed by this site be disputed and if so present facts to the contrary if any.

Instead we get another round of talking points, innuendo and supposition. No fact that can be decifered from the garbage. Now, I love a health debate, but facts are facts and garbage is garbage.

-We said look at the accomplishments from this independant website Cleo posted. We all already know what he didn't do. We asked them to:

a. dispute the accomplishments listed since the other side says he never did anything to help this country.

b. back up that argument

PG comes back with "he hasn't done anything for this country". Although we know she read the website making sure she pulled all his broken promises. If she was not such a hypocrite and really wanted a healthy debate she would have taken the accomplishments as well. And knocked those down. PG is a liar for the above statement and a dishonest and fake debater.

So, when you deal with dishonest people like PG, you get dishonest debate. Oh, and don't ask direct questions, she can't answer those.........

[pattygreen 5]

When Jesus walked the earth, if he had seen a blind man, he would have, right then and there, healed him from his blindness. But Jesus is not with us physically any more. He would advise you to read his words he left to us and figure out the right thing through them. I have done that, and the conclusion I draw from his word is this: "If you want HI, and can't afford it, turn your life over to Jesus and allow Him to be in control. Ask him for help, and He will be there for you." If you really want me to be frank, I'd tell you that He'd also tell us that the things in life don't fall into your lap. "If HI is desired, then get a job and pay for it. If you don't have enough money for it, don't worry, for the life you live here on earth is but a breath. It will be over before you know it and then eternity comes, and that is what really matters. The most important thing that anyone has to do while alive is to make a decision concerning whether they want to be a part of my family or not."

God has not demanded that anyone pay for anything for others. He wants everyone to be loving and giving, that is true. But he wants THEM to do it. Not the government. I know that this concept is hard for you to understand, Cleo's, but please try.

He said render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's...that was the law then.

It is true that Jesus said "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasor's", but he was speaking about being obedient to the law of paying taxes. Most people are obedient and pay their taxes, myself included. That doesn't mean that we agree with the taxes that our government makes us pay to support it's grand spending. Jesus wants us to obey the law about paying taxes, and we do. Just because he wants us to be obedient to paying taxes, doesn't mean the taxation is just.

It absolutely is a right. It's one of the first rights we have after we're born - the right to receive health care that could prolong or improve our life or keep us from dying.

Wrong! Show me in our Constitution where it says that Health care is your right.

Whether or not we have children we all have a vested interest in having an educated populace. It's part of a civilzed society.

Are you saying that our society was not civilzed before the 1900's?, cause public education is no more than 100 years old or so. Before that, people taught their own children at their own expense.

Edited May 17, 2010 by pattygreen

[Cleo's Mom 257]

When Jesus walked the earth, if he had seen a blind man, he would have, right then and there, healed him from his blindness. But Jesus is not with us physically any more. He would advise you to read his words he left to us and figure out the right thing through them. I have done that, and the conclusion I draw from his word is this: "If you want HI, and can't afford it, turn your life over to Jesus and allow Him to be in control. Ask him for help, and He will be there for you." If you really want me to be frank, I'd tell you that He'd also tell us that the things in life don't fall into your lap. "If HI is desired, then get a job and pay for it. If you don't have enough money for it, don't worry, for the life you live here on earth is but a breath.UNBELIEVABLE! This is what Congressman Alan Grayson said is the republican plan for healthcare: (1) Don't get sick and (2) And if you do, die quickly. And here we see it proudly presented. Don't worry if you die from lack of healthcare, you life on earth is pretty much meaningless. It will be over before you know it and then eternity comes, and that is what really matters. The most important thing that anyone has to do while alive is to make a decision concerning whether they want to be a part of my family or not."

God has not demanded that anyone pay for anything for others. He wants everyone to be loving and giving, that is true. But he wants THEM to do it. Not the government. I know that this concept is hard for you to understand, Cleo's, but please try.

He said render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's...that was the law then.

It is true that Jesus said "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasor's", but he was speaking about being obedient to the law of paying taxes. Most people are obedient and pay their taxes, myself included.You've said many times on different threads that it's the government stealing. That doesn't mean that we agree with the taxes that our government makes us pay to support it's grand spending. Jesus wants us to obey the law about paying taxes, and we do. Just because he wants us to be obedient to paying taxes, doesn't mean the taxation is just.

It absolutely is a right. It's one of the first rights we have after we're born - the right to receive health care that could prolong or improve our life or keep us from dying.

Wrong! Show me in our Constitution where it says that Health care is your right. The right to life..liberty..and the pursuit of happiness. You cannot have life if you don't have health insurance to pay for healthcare and you have conditions which threaten the quality (happiness) or quantity of your life.

Whether or not we have children we all have a vested interest in having an educated populace. It's part of a civilzed society.

Are you saying that our society was not civilzed before the 1900's?, cause public education is no more than 100 years old or so. Before that, people taught their own children at their own expense.

And we had no electricity, indoor plumbing or telephones and people lived miles apart from each other and worked at home on their farms. It was difficult to travel and get kids to a school. But the rich did. So, we progressed and moved on. What's your point?

Edited May 17, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[pattygreen 5]

UNBELIEVABLE! This is what Congressman Alan Grayson said is the republican plan for healthcare: (1) Don't get sick and (2) And if you do, die quickly. And here we see in proudly presented. Don't worry if you die from lack of healthcare, you life on earth is pretty much meaningless.

Did I say meaningless? No! That's just Cleo's puttin words in my mouth. I said that eternity is what matters, not this life. Some how I knew you wouldn't get it. I should have known better, you just don't have the Spiritual awareness to understand it.

[pattygreen 5]

You've said many times on different threads that it's the government stealing.

It is! That hasn't changed. Just because God wants us to be obedient to those in authority over us and pay taxes, doesn't mean the taxes are just or fair.

[pattygreen 5]

The right to life..liberty..and the pursuit of happiness. You cannot have life if you don't have health insurance to pay for healthcare and you have conditions which threaten the quality (happiness) or quantity of your life.

You are mistaken. That quote is not found in the Constitution. It is found in our declaration of independence. You should read it.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

UNBELIEVABLE! This is what Congressman Alan Grayson said is the republican plan for healthcare: (1) Don't get sick and (2) And if you do, die quickly. And here we see in proudly presented. Don't worry if you die from lack of healthcare, you life on earth is pretty much meaningless.

Did I say meaningless? No! That's just Cleo's puttin words in my mouth. I said that eternity is what matters, not this life. Some how I knew you wouldn't get it. I should have known better, you just don't have the Spiritual awareness to understand it.

Let's see. You say that this life doesn't matter and I claim you said it's meaningless. Sounds like you're splitting hairs and the one who has found herself in a spiritual corner.

And as far as "getting it" I think I get everything far better than your narrow, myopic, ditto head of the conservative talking points view.

[pattygreen 5]

And we had no electricity, indoor plumbing or telephones and people lived miles apart from each other and worked at home on their farms. It was difficult to travel and get kids to a school. But the rich did. So, we progressed and moved on. What's your point?

My point is that my paying for someone elses kid to get a public education is not what makes our society civil. We would still be a civil society if we each paid for our own kids to go to school. And it would be fair to those who chose not to have children.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

90 Accomplishments of Pres. Obama Which The Media Fails to Report....

Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 03:59:39 AM PDT

Media loves to say that President Obama is not getting much accomplished which the facts belie and fail to report the 90 plus accomplishments of administration, so far!

"Professor Watson writes

Hi friends,

I am always being asked to grade Obama's presidency. In place of offering him a grade, I put together a list of his accomplishments thus far. I think you would agree that it is very impressive. His first six months have been even more active than FDRs or LBJs the two standards for such assessments. Yet, there is little media attention given to much of what he has done. Of late, the media is focusing almost exclusively on Obama's critics, without holding them responsible for the uncivil, unconstructive tone of their disagreements or without holding the previous administration responsible for getting us in such a deep hole. The misinformation and venom that now passes for political reporting and civic debate is beyond description.

As such, there is a need to set the record straight. What most impresses me is the fact that Obama has accomplished so much not from a heavy-handed or top-down approach but from a style that has institutionalized efforts to reach across the aisle, encourage vigorous debate, and utilize town halls and panels of experts in the policy-making process. Beyond the accomplishments, the process is good for democracy and our democratic processes have been battered and bruised in recent years.

Let me know if I missed anything in the list (surely I did).

Robert

1. Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending
   

1. Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices
   

1. Instituted enforcement for equal pay for women
   

1. Beginning the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq
   

1. Families of fallen soldiers have expenses covered to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB
   

1. Ended media blackout on war casualties; reporting full information
   

1. Ended media blackout on covering the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB; the media is now permitted to do so pending adherence to respectful rules and approval of fallen soldier's family
   

1. The White House and federal government are respecting the Freedom of Information Act
   

1. Instructed all federal agencies to promote openness and transparency as much as possible
   

1. Limits on lobbyist's access to the White House
   

1. Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration
   

1. Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date
   

1. Phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren't even used or needed in Iraq/Afghanistan
   

1. Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research
   

1. Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research
   

1. New federal funding for science and research labs
   

1. States are permitted to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards
   

1. Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants) after years of neglect
   

1. Funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools
   

1. New funds for school construction
   

1. The prison at Guantanamo Bay is being phased out
   

1. US Auto industry rescue plan
   

1. Housing rescue plan
   

1. $789 billion economic stimulus plan
   

1. The public can meet with federal housing insurers to refinance (the new plan can be completed in one day) a mortgage if they are having trouble paying
   

1. US financial and banking rescue plan
   

1. The secret detention facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are being closed
   

1. Ended the previous policy; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with the Geneva Convention standards
   

1. Better body armor is now being provided to our troops
   

1. The missile defense program is being cut by $1.4 billion in 2010
   

1. Restarted the nuclear nonproliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols
   

1. Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic
   

1. Reengaged in the agreements/talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions
   

1. Visited more countries and met with more world leaders than any president in his first six months in office
   

1. Successful release of US captain held by Somali pirates; authorized the SEALS to do their job
   

1. US Navy increasing patrols off Somali coast
   

1. Attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles
   

1. Cash for clunkers program offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars; stimulated auto sales
   

1. Announced plans to purchase fuel efficient American-made fleet for the federal government
   

1. Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children
   

1. Signed national service legislation; expanded national youth service program
   

1. Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return home to visit loved ones
   

1. Ended the previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions
   

1. Expanding vaccination programs
   

1. Immediate and efficient response to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters
   

1. Closed offshore tax safe havens
   

1. Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals
   

1. Ended the previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back
   

1. Ended the previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry's predatory practices
   

1. Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources
   

1. Lower drug costs for seniors
   

1. Ended the previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings
   

1. Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel
   

1. Improved housing for military personnel
   

1. Initiating a new policy to promote federal hiring of military spouses
   

1. Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals
   

1. Increasing student loans
   

1. Increasing opportunities in AmeriCorps program
   

1. Sent envoys to Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy
   

1. Established a new cyber security office
   

1. Beginning the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force; this includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc.
   

1. Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts
   

1. Ordered a review of hurricane and natural disaster preparedness
   

1. Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient
   

1. Students struggling to make college loan payments can have their loans refinanced
   

1. Improving benefits for veterans
   

1. Many more press conferences and town halls and much more media access than previous administration
   

1. Instituted a new focus on mortgage fraud
   

1. The FDA is now regulating tobacco
   

1. Ended previous policy of cutting the FDA and circumventing FDA rules
   

1. Ended previous practice of having White House aides rewrite scientific and environmental rules, regulations, and reports
   

1. Authorized discussions with North Korea and private mission by Pres. Bill Clinton to secure the release of two Americans held in prisons
   

1. Authorized discussions with Myanmar and mission by Sen. Jim Web to secure the release of an American held captive
   

1. Making more loans available to small businesses
   

1. Established independent commission to make recommendations on slowing the costs of Medicare
   

1. Appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court
   

1. Authorized construction/opening of additional health centers to care for veterans
   

1. Limited salaries of senior White House aides; cut to $100,000
   

1. Renewed loan guarantees for Israel
   

1. Changed the failing/status quo military command in Afghanistan
   

1. Deployed additional troops to Afghanistan
   

1. New Afghan War policy that limits aerial bombing and prioritizes aid, development of infrastructure, diplomacy, and good government practices by Afghans
   

1. Announced the long-term development of a national energy grid with renewable sources and cleaner, efficient energy production
   

1. Returned money authorized for refurbishment of White House offices and private living quarters
   

1. Paid for redecoration of White House living quarters out of his own pocket
   

1. Held first Seder in White House
   

1. Attempting to reform the nation's healthcare system which is the most expensive in the world yet leaves almost 50 million without health insurance and millions more under insured
   

1. Has put the ball in play for comprehensive immigration reform
   

1. Has announced his intention to push for energy reform
   

1. Has announced his intention to push for education reform
   

dailykos

This was as of November 2009, so we can add the huge victory of healthcare to this list. No accomplishments, indeed!

[pattygreen 5]

Let's see. You say that this life doesn't matter and I claim you said it's meaningless. Sounds like you're splitting hairs and the one who has found herself in a spiritual corner.

And as far as "getting it" I think I get everything far better than your narrow, myopic, ditto head of the conservative talking points view.

Nope. You most definitely don't get anything spiritual. You are as blind as a bat when it comes to spirituality. You should listen to Carrie Underwoods song entitled "This is my temporary Home". She gets it.

[pattygreen 5]

#1 Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending

Let's spend some money and hire some more people to "STUDY" about how to cut spending. Why not just DO IT for crying out loud. Wouldn't that be wiser. Sorry, no accomplishment in my opinion.

Good night. I'll go thru your stupid list tomorrow.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And we had no electricity, indoor plumbing or telephones and people lived miles apart from each other and worked at home on their farms. It was difficult to travel and get kids to a school. But the rich did. So, we progressed and moved on. What's your point?

My point is that my paying for someone elses kid to get a public education is not what makes our society civil. We would still be a civil society if we each paid for our own kids to go to school. And it would be fair to those who chose not to have children.

I said that we all benefit from having an educated populace even if you don't have kids. I want the person who is driving the car down the road to be able to read the road signs. I want the check out person to be able to ring up my order. I want the people who take my blood pressure or give me medicine or shots to know what they're doing, etc...