Octuplets and SIX other children??!!!

[Carrie_C 9]

patty, does it not concern you that you are the only one taking up for this crazy woman?

[pattygreen 5]

I was just talking in general about social workers, not particularly her dealings with them.

[HeatherO 7]

carrie, did you know that if a social worker shows up at your door and says there was a complaint against you by someone and they need to talk to you and see your children that you don't have to allow them into your home and that you have a right to know what the complaint was and who reported it, and that if you don't want them to interview your children, that they can't? Social workers will never tell you your rights. They will say words to you like "we must..." and "You need to..." when in fact it's "If it's ok with you, we'd like to..." ,and "If it's ok with you we'd like to talk to your children."etc. They use scare tactics and threats to check you out. When you are reported upon by someone as being abusive to your children say, they expect you to prove your innocence when in fact the burden of proof lies on them. If you did nothing wrong to your children, you need to tell them when they show up at your door that the accusation is false and that they are not welcomed in. They will then have to get a court order if it is a serious accusation. Then you can prepare yourself by getting an attorney to talk to. This way the SW isn't the only one going before the judge concerning some lie someone made up about you and how you care for your children. Some SW's make it their priority to take children from homes that THEY feel isn't meeting THEIR expectations, and sometimes on mere assumptions. In this country, you are innocent until proven guilty. There are alot of people who report people to DCF out of their own anger towards the accused. This happens more often than not.

This makes the social workers sound like evil trolls bent on stealing the children of good people based on foundless accusations.

The whole intent is to help children who need it, and complaints are the basis on which investigations get started. Are their occasional foundless accusations out there, probably, but a decent social worker is trained to find evidence of real abuse. It may not be the perfect situation but it is certainly better than nothing.

Just because you can refuse to cooperate, does that mean that you should? If you are a good parent then there is no reason to worry about it. Complete refusal to communicate or allow any access just makes a person seem guilty.

This is a tough world we are living in, and unfortunately, sometimes children suffer. I advocate doing whatever we can as a society to protect children. After all, the children can not choose the family or situation into which they are born.

[BethFromVA 5]

I dunno, Heather, it's a tough one. I absolutely agree that they are necessary to help innocent children, but I have also seen innocent people get caught up in the ringer and suffer due to some baseless speculation.

[BJean 16]

"There are alot of people who report people to DCF out of their own anger towards the accused. This happens more often than not."

If people report parents (or other caregivers of children) to DCF because they are angry, it is probably because they are angry that a child or children are being abused. To say that people report things just because they are angry at the accused "more often than not" is not a believable statement.

Whether there is actual abuse may be debatable, but is it better to have some kind of interview/investigation on behalf of the children than to ignore it. Or do you think that a person who sees what they think is abuse should just turn their head away and pretend it isn't happening?

No one likes intrusion by outsiders into their personal business, but too many people abuse children in this country. We cannot allow that to happen to our precious babies just because we fear that a social worker could abuse their right to question or investigate child caregivers.

If social workers are assuming too much power or don't fairly investigate alleged problems, we should handle it by making sure that we are just as careful about hiring social workers as we need to be when we hire school teachers and people who run daycare centers. Safe children is the goal. Not unwarranted harrassment.

[BethFromVA 5]

"There are alot of people who report people to DCF out of their own anger towards the accused. This happens more often than not."

If people report parents (or other caregivers of children) to DCF because they are angry, it is probably because they are angry that a child or children are being abused. To say that people report things just because they are angry at the accused "more often than not" is not a believable statement.

Whether there is actual abuse may be debatable, but is it better to have some kind of interview/investigation on behalf of the children than to ignore it. Or do you think that a person who sees what they think is abuse should just turn their head away and pretend it isn't happening?

No one likes intrusion by outsiders into their personal business, but too many people abuse children in this country. We cannot allow that to happen to our precious babies just because we fear that a social worker could abuse their right to question or investigate child caregivers.

If social workers are assuming too much power or don't fairly investigate alleged problems, we should handle it by making sure that we are just as careful about hiring social workers as we need to be when we hire school teachers and people who run daycare centers. Safe children is the goal. Not unwarranted harrassment.

It's kind of a slippery slope.

Are they needed and necessary? Unfortunately, yes. However, I was once reported by a woman who was angry with me, and I know of another woman who lost her children because somebody reported a cigarette burn when it was a chickenpox scar. Long story, but she was not very vocal and ended up with a shitty lawyer, and she went to jail and had her kids adopted out from under her before she was even found guilty of anything. So yes, people DO get abused by a system that is supposed to protect the abused.

Then you have the kids that are returned time and again to known abusers, only to be eventually killed by the parent or caregiver.

I don't know what the answer is, but in my case, it WAS a case of revenge (and to this day I still don't know what for) and though investigated, my case was closed due to unfounded allegations.

I also absolutely agree with your last paragraph. The problem is, they are underpaid, overworked government workers. That never makes for a good mix. I think good people go into that job with the best of intentions, but sadly it just becomes too much to keep up with.

[Carrie_C 9]

I have actually been on the other side. I have seen children in danger and social workers do NOTHING. I reported my own sister a few years ago because she was heavy on drugs and living with a man who beat her and her little boy. They never had food. My sister and her boyfriend took all the money they had each week and bought drugs with it. They always had their power off and they never had Water. Their house was nothing but filth. They didn't have running water, but they would still use the toliet. And of course they couldn't flush it, so you can imagine the smell. They had roaches everywhere. They would take the little boy with them to buy drugs and they would run out of gas in the middle of the night and have to walk home with the little boy in the freezing cold. They got food stamps, but they would sell them to buy drugs. They were all 3 skin and bones from not eating. My sister would not get any help. I got tired of my nephew living that way. My sister would call the cops when he beat them, and he would go to jail, but she always took him back when he got out. And he always got out of it when he went to court. So I reported her to DCS. It took them months after I reported her to send someone out. The social workers didn't do anything. They offered my sister and her boyfriend alcohol and drug counseling and they went for a few months. But then they just stopped going. And they continued to live that way for years. DCS never went back. They didn't do one single thing to help my nephew. He should have been taken away ASAP.

[BethFromVA 5]

And, Carrie, that is the flip side of the coin. I am sure the bulk of them do pretty decent jobs doing what's best for the children, but what I've heard too often or seen myself is them either being used from one neighbor/family member against another as a get-even tactic, or the kids who are for SURE in a bad situation who SHOULD be removed but are not. I'm sure those cases are just the fringe, but still... it's what we hear about.

[pattygreen 5]

I'll tell you a story concerning DCF. My Daughter-in-law left her son who was 4 with my daughter who was 20 at the time to babysit him at my house. I was out shopping. My daughter-in-laws brother and his teen friend came over and my 10 year old son did a stupid thing and rolled up a piece of computer copier paper and lit the end of it with the stove and brought it outside, pretending to 'smoke' a cigarette. I believe he wanted to seem 'cool' in front of these older boys. My daughter came outside then and when she saw him, she took it away from him and told the other 2 boys to leave. They did. But when they got home they shared the incident with my daughter-in-laws mom,(who doesn't like me, and is menatlly unstable) who happened to also be the 4 year olds grandmother. But they embelished the story to say that my 10 year old handed the 4 year old the pretend 'cigarette' to try smoking it and they told her that we didn't have any food in our house and that my kids were hungry and eating pancakes they had to make with only Water. DCF came over and investigated us for that. They knew me, because I had been caring for foster children for many years, they dropped the case because neglect was unfounded and because pancakes are made by adding only water and there was plenty of food in my house. They believed my son when he told them he never handed the paper to the 4 year old. When I heard about my sons behavior, I disciplined him for it.

So, you see, people do tell stories to DCF just to cause trouble with those whom they have something against. I also understand that DCF needs to investigate all the complaints and why. Yet, I still feel that they get into peoples personal business that they can handle themselves. If my son had done that while I was home and watching TV or doing laundry, they might have requested that I take parenting classes or something. But because they were in the care of my 20 year old who has no children of her own, they could do nothing about it. They also go too far in their investigations. They felt the need to question my husband, who was working at the time. They needed to know all kinds of info about us, that was irrelevent to the incident.

I guess what bothers me the most is that DCF needs to focus on the "REAL" abuse cases and help the children who have parents who use drugs and abuse their kids mentally and physically, and those children end up dead or outgrowing their abusers because noone did anything to help them.

Edited April 13, 2009 by pattygreen

[Kat817 19]

The question is.....without the interviews and questions how do you expect them to KNOW which cases are the "REAL" abuse cases? Are they to consult their magic 8 ball???

It might have been a pretend cigarette, but it was an open fire held by a child, who could have literally burnt the house down, as well as allowing the burning paper to drop on the 4 year olds head, causing them to catch fire.

Yes it might have been a stupid show off prank, but it was putting the 4 year old in danger. As well as anyone else in the vicinity.

Without looking into cases like this----how are the social workers to know? And yes I do think it should have been looked into. Same as every move Nadya has made needs to be looked in to.

[HeatherO 7]

The question is.....without the interviews and questions how do you expect them to KNOW which cases are the "REAL" abuse cases? Are they to consult their magic 8 ball???

It might have been a pretend cigarette, but it was an open fire held by a child, who could have literally burnt the house down, as well as allowing the burning paper to drop on the 4 year olds head, causing them to catch fire.

Yes it might have been a stupid show off prank, but it was putting the 4 year old in danger. As well as anyone else in the vicinity.

Without looking into cases like this----how are the social workers to know? And yes I do think it should have been looked into. Same as every move Nadya has made needs to be looked in to.

I can't help but agree with Kat.

Yes, you can find cases where abuse doesn't exist and someone is angry and just wants to make someones life difficult. Yes, you can find cases where a child is abused and social workers either take no action or very poor action that doesn't help the child. These are the fringes. Most of the time social workers are trained to try and find real cases of abuse and deal with them in the best fashion they can with the resources that they have. When child welfare is the goal, it can't be all bad.

I had a social worker come to my house once when my son was about 2.5 to investigate a black eye. It happened while my son was actually at daycare and was running and sliding on his knees (linoleum and a windsuit make for some fun sliding activites when you are 2.5) and he unfortunately ran into a table.

So someone reported it, probably a neighbor since daycare knew all about the hows and they whys since it happened there. Was I upset that someone came to my door . . . absolutely not. I had her in for coffee and we talked about it, cased closed and never saw a social worker at my house again (other than when I had foster children and I was working with the social workers on the other side of the fence).

I have been on both sides of the fence and all I can say is that every child absolutely deserves to be protected. The system isn't perfect, but the intentions are good for the most part. If a few false allegations have to be investigated in order to allow help to come to children that really need it, so be it.

[BethFromVA 5]

In my case, the complaint was that my child was wearing long sleeves and long pants in summer, that I didn't feed her, and that she was in dirty clothes. Hardly abuse. Nor was any of it true.

My daughter most certainly was not wearing long pants and shirts in summer (insane in Houston), the wash was done the day the lady came (the same day she called me at work, so I certainly did NOT have time to run home and do it), and we had plenty of food in the house.

My daughter, along with the daughter of the woman who called in on me and another little girl, would spend the entire weekends going from house to house eating. They would come to my house and have sandwiches, maybe go to another and get chips or fruit, etc. That was how they spent the weekends.

This lady came to my home and had to go through my pantry and fridge (full), check her clothes (all clean and weather appropriate), and pull her into the bedroom without me and inquire I don't even know what.

Granted, the case was closed six months after the investigation (standard), but still... I felt so violated and told this woman that her agency was being used by a bitch with an obvious grudge and mental problems.

I don't know what the answer is, but I think that they could be a bit more discriminating about the complaints they investigate.

[HeatherO 7]

I'll tell you a story concerning DCF. My Daughter-in-law left her son who was 4 with my daughter who was 20 at the time to babysit him at my house. I was out shopping. My daughter-in-laws brother and his teen friend came over and my 10 year old son did a stupid thing and rolled up a piece of computer copier paper and lit the end of it with the stove and brought it outside, pretending to 'smoke' a cigarette. I believe he wanted to seem 'cool' in front of these older boys. My daughter came outside then and when she saw him, she took it away from him and told the other 2 boys to leave. They did. But when they got home they shared the incident with my daughter-in-laws mom,(who doesn't like me, and is menatlly unstable) who happened to also be the 4 year olds grandmother. But they embelished the story to say that my 10 year old handed the 4 year old the pretend 'cigarette' to try smoking it and they told her that we didn't have any food in our house and that my kids were hungry and eating pancakes they had to make with only Water. DCF came over and investigated us for that. They knew me, because I had been caring for foster children for many years, they dropped the case because neglect was unfounded and because pancakes are made by adding only water and there was plenty of food in my house. They believed my son when he told them he never handed the paper to the 4 year old. When I heard about my sons behavior, I disciplined him for it.

So, you see, people do tell stories to DCF just to cause trouble with those whom they have something against. I also understand that DCF needs to investigate all the complaints and why. Yet, I still feel that they get into peoples personal business that they can handle themselves. If my son had done that while I was home and watching TV or doing laundry, they might have requested that I take parenting classes or something. But because they were in the care of my 20 year old who has no children of her own, they could do nothing about it. They also go too far in their investigations. They felt the need to question my husband, who was working at the time. They needed to know all kinds of info about us, that was irrelevent to the incident.

I guess what bothers me the most is that DCF needs to focus on the "REAL" abuse cases and help the children who have parents who use drugs and abuse their kids mentally and physically, and those children end up dead or outgrowing their abusers because noone did anything to help them.

Seeing children playing with fire is enough of a reason to involve others IMO. It is ashame that someone embellished the situation. However, it seems like in this case the social workers talked with you, found there was nothing amiss and closed the case. To me it sounds like the system worked as intended.

DCF doesn't know what is real and what is not unless they look into it. They don't know what is going on in every home. They have to rely on incidents being reported to know who to even look at.

If the hassle you went through was enough to know the system was working well enough to have a child removed from unsafe conditions down the street where "real" abuse was occuring, isn't it worth it?

[Carrie_C 9]

I agree with Heather and Kat. I think they should investigate every incident that is reported the same way. If a social worker were to come to my house to investigate a complaint, I would be angry at the person who reported me, but I wouldn't take it out on the social worker and I certainly wouldn't tell them, no you can't come into my house, especially when I had nothing to hide. If I were a social worker, I would find it suspicious if someone got really mad and wouldn't cooperate with me. That would just make me think they had something to hide.

[pattygreen 5]

Social workers are trained to understand the way parents that are accused feel when they are innocent and being questioned.

In beths case, if I were a social worker and someone reported to me that a child was in dirty clothes that were long sleeved, I'd tell her to get her nose back where it belongs about that. If she said the mom wasn't feeding her kids, I'd look into it, but not even tell the parents that I was checking on the dirty clothes. I would take one look in the fridge and then at the child, and get my nose out of the rest of their business after I saw the child and seen she was fed. That's what they were reported on, that's what they should check out. Case closed? no. They go to your job, they call the kids doctors, they check with neighbors, the school, etc. When I was being investigated on the above report, the social worker looked at a screen on one of my windows while she was standing outside and said, "You need to fix that screen with a tear in it." What the heck did that have to do with the situation? They take the basic report and fly with it , taking their opportunity to 'Look' into your business and see if there is anything they can get you on. This is how they work, which is what I complain about. Those in Government, and yes, SW's are goverment cause they are set up for the protection of the people, get into the affairs that are none of their business. I know this is their motive, because as a foster parent, I talked with and had relationships with many SW's. I've even seen the unfairness towards tthe parents of the children who were in my care and how the SW's favoritisms went to me over them. I've witnessed many injustices in the system. Even kids that were placed in my home who shouldn't have been taken from their parents IMO.