Fill Centers USA ... problems and questions

[delrio 0]

The only thing i have to say is that you sound hostile towards ME over this policy .

I pay my doctor for an office VISIT and the fill each time i get a fill. We discuss how things are going for me , what im eating ect. It takes longer than 10 minutes.

My doc has ALWAYS said and i have heard from others fills can take up to 2 weeks to either get the FULL affect or to realize they did not work .

I am not trying to be rude but If you did not like the policy before hand then why go to them ?

each person is different when it comes to the band. I dont see how they could possibly set a policy for the band fill or unfill for that matter, ( which is what i meant its lucky they dont charge for unfills ) for people when it comes to fills.

Fill centers , in my opinion make money from people who were banded else were and either did not set up after care else where before hand or need after care.

Are they taking advantage ? Probably .

However most people i know hwo are self pay pay around $100-$150 per fill . Is it right ? I dunno . I do know the docs make more money from the surgeries than they do the fills.

As for your question , I have NEVER EVER had a fill that I have known with in an hour if it will work for me or not . One way or another , if it was going ot be too tight or not . NEVER has that happened to me. I have had fills tighten up on me as long as a month out . Is it safe to say docs usually guess ? to a certain extent yes.

my doc would laugh at me if i walked in there and said " HEY give me such and such amount of a fill " He would look at me like im nuts . It all comes back to if you did not like fill centers policies then maybe you should not have gone to them ?

that's my input

Mindy

Mindy,

I apologize if I've come across as hostile. I believe this website has an area that you can submit complaints about posts. You're welcome to submit my post to them.

I thought I'd give you a heads up that when you post messages on discussion boards, using all caps for words or phrases is considered yelling, and that too could be interpreted as hostile. I've noticed that in your posts you have a tendency towards 'yelling', so perhaps you might tone that down.

Also, when you start a post with 'the only thing I have to say to you is that .... ", it's usually best to limit your post to the statement you make following that statement. When you make that statement and then continue to elaborate for another 1 or 2 paragraphs, you're contradicting yourself. Just a friendly tip. :thumbup:

With regard to your subsequent post, it sounds like you've misinterpreted my original post. Perhaps I could clarify some things for you.

First of all, your experience with your doctor does not reflect everyone else's experiences. There is no evidence that your experiences with your doctor represent the majority of other bandsters, either. So when you insist that your doctor and you are always right, and we cannot have experiences that contradict yours, I think you're being unfair. We're all entitled to our opinions, just as you are.

Yes, fills can take up to two weeks to either get the full affect, or to realize that they did not work. Note your use of the word 'can'. This word indicates that whatever 'can' be done is not an absolute. If fills 'can' take up to two weeks, you're also suggesting that they also cannot. This contradicts your original argument that fills 'cannot possibly be right or or wrong within 24-48 hours'. Apparently, they 'can'. Again, you appear to be speaking for the majority of bandsters. Even if you're correct, my experience is that I know within an hour or two whether or not my fill is correct. If you have any scientific evidence that backs up or suggests that your experience is right, and mine is wrong, I'd be interested to take a look if you'd share it with me. If I'm learning too quickly that my fills are working or not, I'd like to address it. In your original post you insist (or rather shout) that there is 'no way' of knowing whether or not a fill is working within 24-48 hours. I know many doctors who would beg to differ. One doctor who filled patients in Texas whipped 5 or 6 patients out of the flouroscopy room in an hour. Following the fill, patients were asked to sip a cup of Water. Depending on how that felt to them, the doctor would adjust their fill. Many patients came in from out of town. This doctor was aware that it would be unreasonable to fly back to Texas if he was inaccurate. He reassured me that testing the fill within a few minutes of the fill would in fact be indicative if the fill was correct. Dr. Kuri and other doctors I've spoken with suggest the same thing. Does this mean that that they're right and your doctor is wrong? I don't think so. These doctors who have done thousands of fills are speaking from experience.

I'm glad that your doctor takes the time to chit chat with you for more than ten minutes. He sounds like a nice guy. However, by sharing this with us, do you mean to suggest that every other doctor who does fills follow the same procedure? Or perhaps you're suggesting that my experience is all in my head? When I say that my fills take 10 mins. or less, that's what I mean. Perhaps some of Dr. Kuri's bandsters could testify to this, as I've seen him perform multiple fills within an hour.

With regard to the Fill Center's policy on adjusting fills. You suggest that you don't see 'how they could possibly set a policy for a band fill'. But they already have, Mindy, haven't they? Perhaps you could explain to me why they charge for an unfill, but not an underfill? If you can do so, I'll be impressed. Because they themselves cannot, and they set the policy. Since a fill and an underfill take about the same amount of time and skill, the only difference is that with the fill, they're using a little more Fluid than with an underfill. This suggests that the 150.00 that they're charging is for the additional Fluid. What else would justify the difference? Does this make sense to you? It doesn't to me. I don't think a few cc's of fluid is worth 150.00. Furthermore, whether they overfill or underfill, the bottom line is that they've been inaccurate. I'll concede that this doesn't mean that they've necessarily made a mistake, but for 150.00 and the knowledge that they're merely guessing on the right fill, I think it would be reasonable for them to allow one adjustment if the fill is incorrect. When they charge you if they're wrong, I think this is unfair. It may not be their mistake, but it certainly isn't our mistake. So why should either of us be penalized with an additional charge? I should re-emphasize that they know that they are merely guessing. When I purchase a gift for someone, but I'm guessing whether or not they'll like it, most stores have a policy that I can return that item with 30 days. Many doctors have policies that the guess they've made on a diagnosis is just that, a guess. My doctors often invite me to give them a call if my symptoms change or indicate that their diagnosis is incorrect. They don't charge me again for that phone consultation, even if it lasts 20 minutes or longer. This is reasonable. They recognize that medicine is not an exact science, so charging patients for every time that they're wrong would be greedy and unfair to their patient. I acknowledge that there may be some doctors who charge additional money for phone calls. There may be doctors who charge money for a follow-up exam if they've missed something. However, this has not been my experience with my doctors. I think fill doctors realize that filling bands isn't an exact science either. They know that they are guessing. Charging additional money when they're wrong is simply greedy, and it's also more profitable for them.

When you state that 'each person is different when it comes to the band', I'm not entirely sure that this supports your argument against this policy. Since every patient is different, and doctors are aware of this, it seems unfair that some patients are penalized because they're different than the patients who get their fills right the first time.

You suggest that your doctor would 'laugh at you' if you told him exactly which amount you wanted him to fill. That was my original point. Doing so would indeed be ridiculous. I used that example to illustrate that the only justification I can think of for charging 150.00 when a doctor is wrong, is if the patient 'guessed' the fill and the doctor merely followed orders. In that case, the patient made the mistake and the doctor did not. So fine, charge the patient. I know of some bandsters who are so familiar with their band and which fills work for them, that they can in fact pinpoint which fill works for them, and they're probably right most of the time or they'd leave it to their doctor's discretion. Your doctor might laugh at you if you told him which fill you wanted, but many doctors realize that their patients know their bodies better than they do, and they respect their patient's judgement call. If your doctor would laugh at you if you advised him how much of a fill you wanted, that is unfortunate. It indicates that he has no respect for your knowledge of your body and what works for you based on your experience. I find that doctors who listen to their patients and then offer their opinions are much better doctors.

Since you yourself suggest that it is 'safe to say that doctors guess', you're acknowledging that fills are not an exact science. I agree, and because of that, I'm refuting this policy. You also suggest that 'fill centers probably take advantage' of patients. By acknowledging this, you contradict your orginal argument that the Fill Center's policies on profit are perfectly reasonable. Is it reasonable to take advantage of a patient? I don't think so.

Yes, most doctors make more money off of the surgeries than they do on fills. I don't understand how this is relevant to our discussion though.

The Fill Center does provide a valuable service, Mindy. I haven't suggested otherwise. Especially when it comes to bandsters who have had their surgeries elsewhere. But in my opinion, valuable service doesn't justify taking advantage of a patient. A slightly higher fee of 15-20 is reasonable. But the Fill Center is a monopoly, and monopolies have rarely been viewed as being fair. Take utilities, for example. They know that customers can't go anywhere else for their electricity or heat, so they charge a premium for their services. Is this fair? Maybe. But I'm especially giddy when competition forces price decreases for companies like this. When monopolies are broken up, consumers always win.

Why do I use Fill Centers? Because as I suggested in my last post, they have me over a barrell. There aren't many doctors who do fills in Utah. So Fill Center is convenient for me. Is that convience worth the excessive fees that they charge? No. But my only alternative is to go to even greedier doctors who charge upwards of 500.00 for fills. This is one of the few positives associated with Fill Centers. However, if more doctors in Utah learned to do fills, and the increased competion forced Fill Centers to lower their prices, then my question is this: were their original fees reasonable? I don't think so. It suggests the exact opposite of this.

There are many services that we as consumers utilize, and we don't agree with all of their policies. Can you think of a personal example of this? Are you perfectly happy with all of the companies you deal with? Especially when they have absolutely no competition? If so, congratulations. You have exceptional luck in this one area. Suggesting that I should 'go elsewhere' because I don't like one of Fill Center's policies is ludicrous. It is unreasonable as well.

So Mindy, I understand that you are not trying to be rude. However, I do think that you've been argumentative. I think we've both spent enough time on this debate for this discussion post. I'm happy to discuss this with you via email if you'd like. Let's give others the opportunity to share their views on our discussion and try to learn from them without attacking them, okay?

Best of luck on your continued success,

Miya

[delrio 0]

well I have to admit I often feel they are just bleeding money from us on fills and this is why.If fills are included in the price of banding I have noticed they get bigger fills and find their level of restriction sooner than those of us that pay for fills.

Then there is the the odd thing of losing a 1/2 cc of fill ever time from the last fill so even though they say they gave you 1cc it only raised you .5 because they say you lost that .5 but yet they are not concerned about it as it is normal?Then you have to wonder are they bleeding by giving you only .5 or are they being cautious?And why the tale of the lose of .5 cc is it to keep you happy thinking yo got 1cc when you really only got .5? Who knows but we have to trust them to take care of us so they do have us over a barrel in ever since of the word.

I pay $75.00 for an office visit and then another $75.00 if I get a fill,I do see the NUT.

Hi Bamgal,

It's good to hear that someone agrees with me, they're bleeding us for fills. I didn't know that doctors who include adjustments with the surgery tend to overfill. Interesting.

Thanks for the feedback,

Miya

[delrio 0]

I use Fill Center USA and I've not had the problem with them being to conservative with mine, I'm a little less then 6mo. out and have had 2 fills and a slight unfill. I'm now at 4.4cc in a 10cc band with a 9cc fill level. And can't make up my mind on rather I need another yet or not. Some days I feel I can eat more then I should and other days I still get stuck or PB. So I've just been waiting.

Kimaly,

Good to hear that your fills are working for you! If you had a fill that needed an adjustment, do you think 165.00 is a reasonable fee for that?

Hopefully, I'll be able to find my 'sweet spot' and not worry about fills anymore.

Miya

[Totallytater 1]

Mindy, I don't think it is a FillcentersUSA policy to give conservative fills. My FillcenterUSA doctor will give me as much fill as I am comfortable with when I try to swallow the Water. I am usually more conservative than he is and ask him to back off a bit. I don't want to be throwing up my spit, so I take it easy. But he would give me as much as I will tolerate. So I don't think there is any rip off policy across the board. Some providers may be conservative, and others are more agressive. I really love my FillcentersUSA provider. He really seems to care about my weight loss even though he was not my original surgeon. He is Dr. Ahigian in Huntersville, NC.

[susan1961 0]

I'm a health professional...I'll say that right up front. And I suspect I'll get blasted for my perspective. But here's my 2 cents:

$165 does sound like a lot for a minor procedure.

BUT: please keep in mind that that $165 is also paying for:

- the RENT on that space in which you get your fills

- the utilities for that space

- the person who answers the phone and schedules you

- the phone they answer

- the malpractice insurance (this ranges from $20K to over $200K PER YEAR depending upon the state and the doctors specialty)

- the benefits (FICA, disability, health insurance for the staff)

- the training

- the supplies

- the advertising for Fill Centers (so you know they're there and can find them)

- their recruitment and retention costs

- and of course the profit for the chain. Someone invested in this idea and needs to see a return on investment. Or there will be NO Fill Centers

- etc.

Physicians who do surgery make enough on the surgery to pay their office overhead. A business that does only fills has to make enough just doing fills to cover all their overhead and, if it's a for profit business, their profit.

Competition is good. If there is money to be made in this, there will be competitors. The fact that there aren't competitors suggests to me that, overall, no one is making a killing on this.

[coltonwade 27]

Mindy, I don't think it is a FillcentersUSA policy to give conservative fills. My FillcenterUSA doctor will give me as much fill as I am comfortable with when I try to swallow the Water. I am usually more conservative than he is and ask him to back off a bit. I don't want to be throwing up my spit, so I take it easy. But he would give me as much as I will tolerate. So I don't think there is any rip off policy across the board. Some providers may be conservative, and others are more agressive. I really love my FillcentersUSA provider. He really seems to care about my weight loss even though he was not my original surgeon. He is Dr. Ahigian in Huntersville, NC.

From what I have seen i think some fill centers are better than others. Conservative is not necessarily a bad thing. I dont want to come off that way at all. I think it can be like anything , there are bad ones and good ones .

Thanks

Mindy

[coltonwade 27]

I think you make some good points. From what I understand docs make their money from the surgeries not the fills.

So a place that only does fills , they make their money from their fills.

Mindy

I'm a health professional...I'll say that right up front. And I suspect I'll get blasted for my perspective. But here's my 2 cents:

$165 does sound like a lot for a minor procedure.

BUT: please keep in mind that that $165 is also paying for:

- the RENT on that space in which you get your fills

- the utilities for that space

- the person who answers the phone and schedules you

- the phone they answer

- the malpractice insurance (this ranges from $20K to over $200K PER YEAR depending upon the state and the doctors specialty)

- the benefits (FICA, disability, health insurance for the staff)

- the training

- the supplies

- the advertising for Fill Centers (so you know they're there and can find them)

- their recruitment and retention costs

- and of course the profit for the chain. Someone invested in this idea and needs to see a return on investment. Or there will be NO Fill Centers

- etc.

Physicians who do surgery make enough on the surgery to pay their office overhead. A business that does only fills has to make enough just doing fills to cover all their overhead and, if it's a for profit business, their profit.

Competition is good. If there is money to be made in this, there will be competitors. The fact that there aren't competitors suggests to me that, overall, no one is making a killing on this.

[coltonwade 27]

Mindy,

I apologize if I've come across as hostile. I believe this website has an area that you can submit complaints about posts. You're welcome to submit my post to them.

I am well aware of this policy since i am a moderator !

I thought I'd give you a heads up that when you post messages on discussion boards, using all caps for words or phrases is considered yelling, and that too could be interpreted as hostile. I've noticed that in your posts you have a tendency towards 'yelling', so perhaps you might tone that down.

IF you have a personal issue with me or any other member as per the rules please take it off the board, I will not address any of this directly on the board.

Also, when you start a post with 'the only thing I have to say to you is that .... ", it's usually best to limit your post to the statement you make following that statement. When you make that statement and then continue to elaborate for another 1 or 2 paragraphs, you're contradicting yourself. Just a friendly tip. :thumbup:

See above

With regard to your subsequent post, it sounds like you've misinterpreted my original post. Perhaps I could clarify some things for you.

First of all, your experience with your doctor does not reflect everyone else's experiences. There is no evidence that your experiences with your doctor represent the majority of other bandsters, either. So when you insist that your doctor and you are always right, and we cannot have experiences that contradict yours, I think you're being unfair. We're all entitled to our opinions, just as you are.

I have not ever said my experience is right , my doc is right If you were to look at my other posts you will see that I am always saying each doc is different. I am not a

"my doc is the best " You need to look at my other posts and realize that .

Yes, fills can take up to two weeks to either get the full affect, or to realize that they did not work. Note your use of the word 'can'. This word indicates that whatever 'can' be done is not an absolute. If fills 'can' take up to two weeks, you're also suggesting that they also cannot. This contradicts your original argument that fills 'cannot possibly be right or or wrong within 24-48 hours'. Apparently, they 'can'. Again, you appear to be speaking for the majority of bandsters. Even if you're correct, my experience is that I know within an hour or two whether or not my fill is correct. If you have any scientific evidence that backs up or suggests that your experience is right, and mine is wrong, I'd be interested to take a look if you'd share it with me. If I'm learning too quickly that my fills are working or not, I'd like to address it. In your original post you insist (or rather shout) that there is 'no way' of knowing whether or not a fill is working within 24-48 hours. I know many doctors who would beg to differ. One doctor who filled patients in Texas whipped 5 or 6 patients out of the flouroscopy room in an hour. Following the fill, patients were asked to sip a cup of Water. Depending on how that felt to them, the doctor would adjust their fill. Many patients came in from out of town. This doctor was aware that it would be unreasonable to fly back to Texas if he was inaccurate. He reassured me that testing the fill within a few minutes of the fill would in fact be indicative if the fill was correct. Dr. Kuri and other doctors I've spoken with suggest the same thing. Does this mean that that they're right and your doctor is wrong? I don't think so. These doctors who have done thousands of fills are speaking from experience.

I'm glad that your doctor takes the time to chit chat with you for more than ten minutes. He sounds like a nice guy. However, by sharing this with us, do you mean to suggest that every other doctor who does fills follow the same procedure? Did i say that ? Or perhaps you're suggesting that my experience is all in my head? Again did i say that ? do not put words into my mouth .When I say that my fills take 10 mins. or less, that's what I mean. Perhaps some of Dr. Kuri's bandsters could testify to this, as I've seen him perform multiple fills within an hour.

With regard to the Fill Center's policy on adjusting fills. You suggest that you don't see 'how they could possibly set a policy for a band fill'. But they already have, Mindy, haven't they? Perhaps you could explain to me why they charge for an unfill, but not an underfill? If you can do so, I'll be impressed. Because they themselves cannot, and they set the policy. Since a fill and an underfill take about the same amount of time and skill, the only difference is that with the fill, they're using a little more Fluid than with an underfill. This suggests that the 150.00 that they're charging is for the additional Fluid. What else would justify the difference? Does this make sense to you? It doesn't to me. I don't think a few cc's of fluid is worth 150.00. Furthermore, whether they overfill or underfill, the bottom line is that they've been inaccurate. I'll concede that this doesn't mean that they've necessarily made a mistake, but for 150.00 and the knowledge that they're merely guessing on the right fill, I think it would be reasonable for them to allow one adjustment if the fill is incorrect. When they charge you if they're wrong, I think this is unfair. It may not be their mistake, but it certainly isn't our mistake. So why should either of us be penalized with an additional charge? I should re-emphasize that they know that they are merely guessing. When I purchase a gift for someone, but I'm guessing whether or not they'll like it, most stores have a policy that I can return that item with 30 days. Many doctors have policies that the guess they've made on a diagnosis is just that, a guess. My doctors often invite me to give them a call if my symptoms change or indicate that their diagnosis is incorrect. They don't charge me again for that phone consultation, even if it lasts 20 minutes or longer. This is reasonable. They recognize that medicine is not an exact science, so charging patients for every time that they're wrong would be greedy and unfair to their patient. I acknowledge that there may be some doctors who charge additional money for phone calls. There may be doctors who charge money for a follow-up exam if they've missed something. However, this has not been my experience with my doctors. I think fill doctors realize that filling bands isn't an exact science either. They know that they are guessing. Charging additional money when they're wrong is simply greedy, and it's also more profitable for them.

When you state that 'each person is different when it comes to the band', I'm not entirely sure that this supports your argument against this policy. Since every patient is different, and doctors are aware of this, it seems unfair that some patients are penalized because they're different than the patients who get their fills right the first time.

You suggest that your doctor would 'laugh at you' if you told him exactly which amount you wanted him to fill. That was my original point. Doing so would indeed be ridiculous. I used that example to illustrate that the only justification I can think of for charging 150.00 when a doctor is wrong, is if the patient 'guessed' the fill and the doctor merely followed orders. In that case, the patient made the mistake and the doctor did not. So fine, charge the patient. I know of some bandsters who are so familiar with their band and which fills work for them, that they can in fact pinpoint which fill works for them, and they're probably right most of the time or they'd leave it to their doctor's discretion. Your doctor might laugh at you if you told him which fill you wanted, but many doctors realize that their patients know their bodies better than they do, and they respect their patient's judgement call. If your doctor would laugh at you if you advised him how much of a fill you wanted, that is unfortunate. It indicates that he has no respect for your knowledge of your body and what works for you based on your experience. I find that doctors who listen to their patients and then offer their opinions are much better doctors.

Since you yourself suggest that it is 'safe to say that doctors guess', you're acknowledging that fills are not an exact science. I agree, and because of that, I'm refuting this policy. You also suggest that 'fill centers probably take advantage' of patients. By acknowledging this, you contradict your orginal argument that the Fill Center's policies on profit are perfectly reasonable. Is it reasonable to take advantage of a patient? I don't think so.

Yes, most doctors make more money off of the surgeries than they do on fills. I don't understand how this is relevant to our discussion though.

The Fill Center does provide a valuable service, Mindy. I haven't suggested otherwise. Especially when it comes to bandsters who have had their surgeries elsewhere. But in my opinion, valuable service doesn't justify taking advantage of a patient. A slightly higher fee of 15-20 is reasonable. But the Fill Center is a monopoly, and monopolies have rarely been viewed as being fair. Take utilities, for example. They know that customers can't go anywhere else for their electricity or heat, so they charge a premium for their services. Is this fair? Maybe. But I'm especially giddy when competition forces price decreases for companies like this. When monopolies are broken up, consumers always win.

Why do I use Fill Centers? Because as I suggested in my last post, they have me over a barrell. There aren't many doctors who do fills in Utah. So Fill Center is convenient for me. Is that convience worth the excessive fees that they charge? No. But my only alternative is to go to even greedier doctors who charge upwards of 500.00 for fills. This is one of the few positives associated with Fill Centers. However, if more doctors in Utah learned to do fills, and the increased competion forced Fill Centers to lower their prices, then my question is this: were their original fees reasonable? I don't think so. It suggests the exact opposite of this.

There are many services that we as consumers utilize, and we don't agree with all of their policies. Can you think of a personal example of this? Are you perfectly happy with all of the companies you deal with? Especially when they have absolutely no competition? If so, congratulations. You have exceptional luck in this one area. Suggesting that I should 'go elsewhere' because I don't like one of Fill Center's policies is ludicrous. It is unreasonable as well.

So Mindy, I understand that you are not trying to be rude. However, I do think that you've been argumentative. I think we've both spent enough time on this debate for this discussion post. I'm happy to discuss this with you via email if you'd like. Let's give others the opportunity to share their views on our discussion and try to learn from them without attacking them, okay?

Best of luck on your continued success,

I am done I will address the rest later.

Mindy

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Mindy,

First of all, I think it's rape to charge anywhere near 100.00 bucks or more for 5-10 mins. work. There may be a few exceptions, but my fills have never exceeded 10 mins. I don't care what the doctor is doing. Fills are a ripoff to begin with, especially in the US. Doctors in the US who charge this amount or more do so because they can, not because they've earned it.

I agree, this has been my mantra from day #1. Remember Brad Wilcox, MD? He used to post here? He charges around $1,000 for a fill if you had your surgery in MX. He considers it a punishment for leaving the country. He claims it's his OM's decision. Right. But in comparison $165 is a bargain. ;o)

They know that patients need multiple fills, and many patients can't get back to their doctors in other countries. They also realize that there aren't a lot of doctors filling patients from other countries. So they take advantage of that. They're milking patients for every dime.

Again, you are chanting my mantra. However... the real money is from surgery and if the fill doctors are not getting $ from surgery they will get it in fills. To be honest, I think that is fair to some degree. You didn't go to that person for your surgery but you want inexpensive aftercare. It doesn't work that way. These people are in business to make a living. Supply/demand. Same scenario holds true for many US banded people. Their doc dies, retires, moves, the person moves... they are in the same exact boat as MX banded folks. Just another reason to get a sleeve over a band. No aftercare and if you do need aftercare you can get it, you are not stuck with a band surgeon.

But, you knew this going into banding that this is how the game is played... kinda not fair to be complaining about the rules now. While I agree with you in theory I also feel that these were the rules before you were banded. If you didn't agree with them then other options were available.

I've seen specialists for hour long visits and have never been charged 165.00. If specialists don't make that in an hour, how do doctors justify charging it for 5-10 mins.

I have never seen a specialist for under $300 for 20 minutes. You are getting a bargain if you are seeing a specialist for under $165.

work? Especially since the majority of fills are uncomplicated? If a fill doesn't go well, fine, attach a 10.00 fee or something. 165.00 is exhorbitant. Furthermore, what's the required training for giving a fill? A few hours? A couple of days? It's not as if they've invested themselves extensively to learn how to do a fill. Many nurses do fills, so it doesn't even require an MD to do them.

Amazingly, nurses do things that require training, too. ;o) Fills are not a science, they are an art. After you have done about 1000 of them you are likely 10x better than when you had done 10 of them.

Your fills may take 4-7 days. However, my fills are either working or not within 24-48 hours. This has been consistent with 8 fills. I've been told by 3 doctors that 1-2 days is usually how long it takes for patients to know whether or not the fill is correct.

Interesting that you have the need to ask so many doctors the same question. I'd have to disagree with your three doctors and on this one I'd go to the actual source, the patients. Read the boards, it is not uncommon in the least for a fill not to kick in right away and some do indeed take 2 weeks. Mine always took three days, I could bank on it. If I could eat steak before my fill I could eat steak until my 3rd day after a fill then my world changed.

I do agree with you that each person by the 8+ fill knows when theirs will kick in.

Furthermore, since the Fill Center has a policy of 72 hours, there must be something to that time frame, don't you think?[

No, not really.

If 4-7 days out was typical, and they wanted patients to have fills corrected accordingly, their policy would be likely to reflect that.

Ummm, they are a business and as a business they are there to make money?

I guess my question to you is this: since fills are always iffy, and it's difficult to tell immediately following a fill whether or not it's working (meaning within an hour or so), it's safe to say that the doctors usually guess. If they're guessing and they're wrong, why should the patient be further burdened?

Then pay for Fluoro and it won't be nearly as much of an issue.

So how would they make their money? Well, what's reasonable for 5-10 mins. work? 20? 30? 50? At least we're in a reasonable range here. If they charged 30.00 and did 6 fills an hour (which isn't untypical), that's 180.00 and hour.

I question why you would plan your aftercare, get a band, and THEN decide you don't agree with the rules. Find someone else to do your fills, go back to MX, get them done under fluoro, find an alternative.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

So Mindy, I understand that you are not trying to be rude. However, I do think that you've been argumentative. I think we've both spent enough time on this debate for this discussion post. I'm happy to discuss this with you via email if you'd like. Let's give others the opportunity to share their views on our discussion and try to learn from them without attacking them, okay?

Best of luck on your continued success,

Miya

Miya....

Wow... I have to admit, I didn't read all of that. That was one long post. However, I have to say that there is a great deal of projection going on here. All the things you are accusing Mindy of, you are actually the one doing it. The rude behaviors, accusations, manipulation of words... and I didn't even read it all!

I really don't see where Mindy has done any of the things you claim. She made no across the board statements. She never claimed her doctor is like every other doctor out there and to suggest that she find studies to support a claim she didn't make... are you serious?

Look, bottom line here... I agree with you that some doctors charge a huge amount for fills. They do it because they can. It's that simple. Are some of them taking advantage of fat folks that will do damn near anything to lose weight? Of course. But you know what? This is the game you signed up for. It's a bit late to be complaining about it now.

Please don't be so mean to Mindy anymore, she's been here a long time and is quite capable of speaking her own mind without your changing her words and THEN asking her to defend her stance with studies that you know very well do not exist for claims she did not make.

Instead of complaining about this after the fact, why not set up your own fill business. Hire a nurse, rent an office, get the RN certified in fills, charge $20 a fill and not only can you turn a nice profit according to the numbers you posted earlier, you can get affordable fills for yourself. There, problem solved.

Edited January 12, 2009 by WASaBubbleButt

[kimaly 57]

Kimaly,

Good to hear that your fills are working for you! If you had a fill that needed an adjustment, do you think 165.00 is a reasonable fee for that?

Hopefully, I'll be able to find my 'sweet spot' and not worry about fills anymore.

Miya

I hope you find your sweet spot soon also. But for myself I feel Fill Center Usa is worth what I pay, They not only do my fills they call to check on me and answer any questions I have and have since the day I got back from Mexico. I did need an adjustment(unfill) but it was in the 72hrs and I didn't have to pay. but if I needed more I would be willing to pay, there's no way to really know with a fill and I knew this going into surgery.

[lapbandtalker 0]

Some have totally missed it.

FillCentersUSA isn't like a chain. Don't make that mistake of thinking it is.

What it is (that I've learned thru experience) is they ask docs around the nation to be a part of their group. These doctors are already established and doing bands. (there may be some who began banding as part of increasing their business when FillCentersUSA contacted them)

They have patients OUTSIDE what FillCenters refers....and they are just that- a referral service. FillCentersUSA referrs patients.

And because they are doctors, they will vary just like other doctors will. So don't be surprised if you are looking for an assembly line appeal- you won't find that with FillCenters.

Be up front with your doc (even if it's a FillCenter doc) they know what the guidelines for fills are - as should you. Ask for it. If they tell you "no", take your business elsewhere!

I had read many threads about patients not getting the correct amount of fill....and it draging on and on and on...but these people had insurance! So they were still paying too much.

here you go:

Postoperatively, the surgeon may adjust the stoma size percutaneously by injecting or aspirating saline with the access port needle via the self-sealing access port.

The following are general guidelines for LAP-BAND® System adjustments:

1. The initial postoperative adjustment should occurr 4-6 weeks after the operation. In most cases, you will add 1-2cc of saline to the 9.75 and 10 cm LAP-BAND®, 2-3 cc to the VG LAP-BAND® and 4 cc to the 11cm LAP-BAND®.

2. The patient should be reviewed regularly (every 4-6 weeks) and weight and clinical status measured. If the weight loss has averaged less than 1lb per week over the period and the patient indicates there is not excessive restriction to eating, a further increment of Fluid should be added (usually 0.3-0.5ml).

3. Where the average weight loss between visits has been greater than 2lbs per week, normally no additional Fluid would be added.

4. If the weight loss has averaged between 1 and 2lbs per week, additional fluid would be indicated if the patient feels he/she can eat too freely or finds difficulty in complying with the dietary rules.

5. Fluid would be removed from the system if there were symptoms of excessive restrction or obstruction, including excessive sense of fulness, heartburn, regurgitation and vomiting. If symptoms are not relieved by removal of the fluid, barium meal should be used to evaluate the anatomy.

......

by Inamed Health

Edited January 14, 2009 by lapbandtalker

[stI24nger 1]

delrio.

I hope you were on the debate team in high school.

If not, perhaps you could find a fun Creative Writing class at your local Community College.

Your words are elegant. Your grammar, spelling, and syntax -- bar none. I am jealous of your clear, precise thought processes and unrelenting attention to detail.

However, I agree with WASaBubbleButt--you were shockingly RUDE (ooppps, sorry for yelling) to Mindy. No one gets on these boards to have every opinion and experience they express BLASTED (oops, there I go again--tee hee) and over-analyzed by others. She's just a person like you and me.

You came here to express your distaste for your fill center's pricing policy and ended up tearing coltonwade a new one and offending all of her friends. I sincerely hope that was not your intent.

[Bamagal 1]

Guys I am not a Mod. but if I were I would lock this topic.It has been hijacked and has gotten way off topic.All this he said she said is not doing anyone any good here.

[stI24nger 1]

Eh, maybe.....well, probably.

I just wandered in at random and really felt compelled to comment.

I'm not sure "hijacked" is the right word....the people who initiated the conversation are still running it. "Strayed off topic" is probably more accurate. And strayed is putting it lightly. But, like I said, I wandered to this thread at random, and just had to comment. It's too brazen for me to not put my two cents in.