FREE Nutrition advice

[Jachut 487]

Ah, no not really. I've got several old physiology textbooks here that I dug out that say the complete opposite. I've reported this post, I really think its alarming that you're offering this unclear information as advice, not as an informed opinion. I dont pretend to be an expert (I've done 3/4 of a physio degree 20 years ago) and I have no problem in the world with what you're saying but I think it needs to be an opinion, not presented as fact, given that there's quite credible information to hand disputing it. I admit I may have misunderstood you, and what you're meaning and I apologise if this is so.

I must admit, I felt that way about the thread anyway when it was started. I think people need to go to their doctos for advice. I became alarmed when you advised a poster to try mushies ahead of her doctor's schedule. "Starvation mode" too is a highly contested phenomenon.

In academia, you cant say a single thing without backing it up with your sources. You have to be VERY careful to present information but allow people to make their own decisions. I do believe here, you need to be aware that there are all levels of education and understanding and some people will take what you say as absolute gospel.

I hope you can forgive me reporting it, it is not done to be nasty, but I feel there is a problem with this thread in its current form. I'm more than happy to see the discussion continued and will keep out of it, but I think it shouldnt be presented as medical advice or fact.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Jachut

[bambam31 168]

Alright, I wasn't trying to invoke a riot :smile2:...

As far as people using internet advice as Gospel... well... that's a lot like defending yourself in court - you have a fool for an attorney.

After all, anyone COULD pose as a representative from ANY profession on here and then copy and paste internet research - so ALL OF US on LBT should be exercising proper judgment. Our surgeons' should have the final say on any questionalble theories or practices. In fact, I'm going to pose this same question to my nutritionist and see what her opinion is. I know there are many many theories about nutrition, Vitamins, supplements, etc. We should just use this forum to advance the discussion and mine ideas...

OK... with that said, I think you both are really saying similar things. Although urwhatueat is speaking of nutrition in general and Jachut is speaking of nutrition as it directly relates to exercise.

Correct me if I'm wrong (BOTH of you)... I was told (by a trainer at the gym) to limit carb intake for more than an hour before exercising (cardio in particular) because when your heart rate enters your target zone it will burn the EASIEST fuel first - carbs in the bloodstream - because your body is an efficient machine. After than, it will turn toward converting stored fat into glucose as it's energy source. Hence, they recommend keeping your heart rate up for more than 30 minutes so you spend time in the fat burning "zone."

Then, immediately after exercising, your muscles need a mix of carbs and Protein for recovery. And the carbs help your muscles use the Protein. They also recommended around 0.6 grams of protein per pound of body weight as a target amount of your DAILY INTAKE.

Lively discussion promotes learning.

Brad

[Jachut 487]

Yes, that's what I thought too - blood carbs first, then your body will burn its muscle glycogen and when that's gone, stored fat.

I was taught at uni that burning Protein is a last resort for the body because its depleted of all else.

However, I'm not fussed by who's right or wrong and no doubt thinking has changed since I was doing a physio degree. I was more alarmed that such unclear information is contained in a thread called Free Nutrition Advice. I dont believe the thread itself is framed in an appropriate way for a discussion forum. The OP's advice and opinion is much appreciated and very helpful, however I dont think its really right to say I'm a nutritionist and can answer all your questions and then speak matter of factly on several highly contentious issues. The OP has EVERY right to express them but they should be more as opinions not facts.

[Kat817 19]

Below is an excerpt from our forum rules:

When using this forum, you agree that we cannot be and are not responsible for the truth, completeness, objectivity or usefulness of any user-generated content, nor do we endorse any content, including, but not limited to, postings or replies to postings made by members who are moderators.

We do nothing to verify member identities. You assume all risk in your use of information from other members.

At all times, in all threads, in all interactions both here at LBT as well as anywhere else on line you need to keep these things in mind.

Your face to face interaction with your own Doctor or nutritionist is your best bet at continued good health.

With that said, sharing ideas, and OPINIONS here is always a great motivator and works as a wonderful support system.

NO ONE ---- here, or in your local Dr.'s office has all the right answers for all the questions at all times.

The non combative, polite exchange is totally appreciated in this thread though--shows lots of class!!!

Kat

[jms462001 9]

All expert advise aside, I think any exercise we lapbanders do, regardless of when we eat our carbs, will be a huge advantage, especially if we compare it with the exercise some did before the band!!!

[bambam31 168]

All expert advise aside, I think any exercise we lapbanders do, regardless of when we eat our carbs, will be a huge advantage, especially if we compare it with the exercise some did before the band!!!

This is definitely true! I shriek when I think back (no so long ago :smile2:) to my couch potato days and how tired I always was.

But, as a matter of being time constrained, all of us have to use our time wisely and exercise as efficiently as we can to get the most bang for our buck so to speak.

Brad

[jms462001 9]

This is definitely true! I shriek when I think back (no so long ago :smile2:) to my couch potato days and how tired I always was.

But, as a matter of being time constrained, all of us have to use our time wisely and exercise as efficiently as we can to get the most bang for our buck so to speak.

Brad

And many of us with challenges such as severe arthritis have to find what works for us. But, there are no excuses for anyone. The exercise bike works for almost everyone who can et their butt up on it, Water exercises are great, and physical therapy can teach the right exercises for most all conditions. Time. I guess we all have to find that, but I know it is just an excuse when I use it because I can always squeeze it in somewhere!!! We don't need that much to do what we need to accomplish.

[Elisabethsew 50]

I'm a medical professional and the body burns Protein last. I think the key words in this thread are "free" and "advice." You get what you pay for and advice is just that; an opinion. Since people are anonymous, we have no way of knowing if people are what they say they are.

Anyone "taking" advice that is not backed up by peer reviewed scholarly articles that shows current research findings COULD be taking a BIG RISK.

[Jachut 487]

Thanks Moderators for clarifying.

Guys I agree that any exercise is good exercise and that when you have special needs such as arthritis you find what works for you.

I had special needs too - I hated strength training, roflmao! So I just ran.

I think we have a really bad tendency to overcomplicate this weight loss and exercise thing. You can in fact lose weight knowing NOTHING about it, if you just eat less and move more. Yet we like to know the science behind absolutely everything.

yet so many times, our own experience blows science out of the Water.

I know for me, I dont do a high Protein diet, and I didnt do any strength trianing coz I just plain didnt want to. I have built a very nice body on a carb based diet (low GI of course) and running. I dont care what anyone says, I *HAVE* built muscle from running. You know what, I think we take what applies to professional body builders and try to apply it to laymen. True if you're trying to pack on 40lb of muscle, cardio is detrimental to that process. True if you're trying to pack on 40lb of muscle, you need massive Protein supplementation and LOTS of calories. But if you're the average Joe, you can get away with a much easier regime. Losing weight whilst maintaining your lean body mass and building a huge competition body are two different processes.

I've got to the point where running will do no more, that was when I introduced some strength training, some interval training and a bit more careful eating and post exercise supplmentation, to take my body that extra mile. But when you've got loads of fat to lose, it really doesnt take anything that scientific or complicated to do it, just eating less and moving more will work.

Some people love all the science and the regimes, others find it intimidating. Like anything else, its personality dependent, but the best plan is what works for YOU.

[bambam31 168]

Thanks for sharing Jacqui! I love reading posts from people who've done it and more importantly, how they did it. That's what inspires the rest of us.

Brad

[plain 12]

Several studies have shown that a great male physique can be built by consuming between 0.6 and 0.8 grams of Protein per pound of body weight daily. So a 200-pound guy should shoot for 120-160 grams of Protein per day to gain muscle weight.

I thought the formula was 0.6 to 0.8 per kilogram (of ideal body weight). So that 200 lb guy should shoot for 55 - 73 grams of protein / day. Am I wrong?

[urwhatueat 0]

Ah, no not really. I've got several old physiology textbooks here that I dug out that say the complete opposite. I've reported this post, I really think its alarming that you're offering this unclear information as advice, not as an informed opinion. I dont pretend to be an expert (I've done 3/4 of a physio degree 20 years ago) and I have no problem in the world with what you're saying but I think it needs to be an opinion, not presented as fact, given that there's quite credible information to hand disputing it. I admit I may have misunderstood you, and what you're meaning and I apologise if this is so.

I must admit, I felt that way about the thread anyway when it was started. I think people need to go to their doctos for advice. I became alarmed when you advised a poster to try mushies ahead of her doctor's schedule. "Starvation mode" too is a highly contested phenomenon.

In academia, you cant say a single thing without backing it up with your sources. You have to be VERY careful to present information but allow people to make their own decisions. I do believe here, you need to be aware that there are all levels of education and understanding and some people will take what you say as absolute gospel.

I hope you can forgive me reporting it, it is not done to be nasty, but I feel there is a problem with this thread in its current form. I'm more than happy to see the discussion continued and will keep out of it, but I think it shouldnt be presented as medical advice or fact.

Your life must be pretty miserable if you are trolling around this forum trying to start shit with people when people are here looking for help. I will no longer be answering anymore of your questions as you have proven to be here on this forum only to argue and not learn anything.

[dietpeach 0]

Yes, that's what I thought too - blood carbs first, then your body will burn its muscle glycogen and when that's gone, stored fat.

I was taught at uni that burning Protein is a last resort for the body because its depleted of all else.

You are correct. I used to be a very serious athlete (national level) and this is what the trainers taught us. They said that it took about 45 minutes of running to use up the blood glucose and the glycogen stores and finally start burning fat, so if you need to burn fat you need to run for more than 45 minutes to do so. (New research that came out since my training days suggests that short bursts of intense exercise as in interval training also helps burn fat.)

Also, I never heard of a body "burning" Protein for fuel during exercise, though I have heard of people's bodies digesting its own muscle in case of starvation.

At any rate, there are always different theories around. I'm not trying to get involved in controversy, I'm simply putting my knowledge on the table. It's possible the nutritionist here learned differently or misunderstood the science (or isn't a nutritionist?). (But I agree, nobody on this board should ever advise someone to go against her doctor's orders - you were brave to stand up and say so.)

Edited December 17, 2008 by dietpeach

[urwhatueat 0]

I'm a medical professional and the body burns Protein last. I think the key words in this thread are "free" and "advice." You get what you pay for and advice is just that; an opinion. Since people are anonymous, we have no way of knowing if people are what they say they are.

Anyone "taking" advice that is not backed up by peer reviewed scholarly articles that shows current research findings COULD be taking a BIG RISK.

If our bodies burned Protein last and fat and carbs first we would all be thin. Your not a medical professional. You are just a negative person trying to start arguements with your friend. Get off this thread if you are not here for the right reasons and leave everyone else alone.

Shame on you! :smile2:

[*susan* 1,709]

I am temporarily locking this thread until everyone calms down.

urwhatueat, please check your private messages.

Thank you.

Susan