Get fill even though not sticking to diet?

[SlicedBread 0]

I know this sounds like a silly question, but please bear with us.

My girlfriend, who doesn't like computers, has asked me to post this question on her behalf.

She has only had one adjustment, and it seems to be doing a little for her, but only a very little, in terms of keeping her full longer *when she eats per the prescribed procedure*, i.e. Proteins first, no liquids, etc.

Here's the problem. She fully and freely acknowledges that she is absolutely not "working the band", i.e. she's not sticking to the diet. She's eating the unadvisable foods, she's eating "too much" of them, she's having liquids with her meals, and so on.

Now, we *know* this is not the advised course of action, so please no judgmental or shaming comments. But here's the question.

She wonders if she should get an adjustment anyway. The theory being that, even if she eats non-protein items like a salad, it will still help her a good bit, rather than the little bit of help she's getting now.

Is it true that you're fuller longer almost regardless of what you eat (excepting ice cream and the like) because there's less room for whatever you take in?

[rodriguezequal 3]

First off I just want to say that nothing in life worth having comes easy...it's tough. Sometimes it takes time to get your "sweet spot" or restriction. She probably isn't having any restriction yet which is allowing her to eat like she did before the surgery. By getting her fills until she has restriction it may allow her/help her make the right choices in what she eats. Tell her to push forward...it's worth it...so worth it. Her hard work and dedication will pay off. I'm not saying that she wont ever slip up or that she shouldn't ever have a scoop of ice cream again...I'm just saying that if she tries and gets her fills and the weight starts coming off maybe that will be th motivation she needs to step it up and make better choices when it comes to food. As soon as she makes her mind up to stick to it and push herself then she will see the results...It's all up to her :wink2: Good luck and my thoughts are with you and her...I know she will do well and I know she will succeed!!!! Go for it!!! I'm here if you need me :thumbup:

[RestlessMonkey 7]

I think she should talk to her surgeon. It's possible she needs some time with a nutritionist or psych consult. If she gets too tight and doesn't eat the right foods etc she can become anemic or do other harm. Not being prissy or mean, either; just until she's ready to follow the rules, I'd think being restricted will just cause her problems. Aside from the fact that as she gets restriction she may not be able to eat the lettuce etc in a salad, even if she CAN, 1/2 cup of veggies doesn't usually have the Protein of 1/2 cup of meat. She'd need to eat something very high in protein and that's even more work...

The point is to not hurt herself, whether she ever loses an ounce more or not. I think chats w/surgeon etc are in order. She's not the only one to be reluctant; maybe they can help her move on! :thumbup:

[Jachut 487]

Having a good fill cuts your appetite and makes it easier to make good choices. Not being able to stick to the diet can be a great reason to get a fill.

Protein schmotein anyway. A half cup of veges is a very worthwhile thing to ingest. I'd hate to see what you'd look like after a year on a diet of meat only. The thought of eating only Protein items is ridiculous, its very unhealthy. Protein first does not mean protein only, she SHOULD be eating salad and veges, not thinking that these are the wrong things to eat.

Personally, I eat bread and cereals too. But I know that with good restriction I have less appetite, am more easily satisfied and dont have the desire for sweet foods and extras. I wouldnt hesitate to get a fill in her situation but she does need to commit to sticking to the rules too. You can be super tight and still not follow the rules. Alcohol, chocolate and ice cream will always go down fine so she needs to eat these foods in moderation.

[Lshelley21 0]

not starting a hot topic or anything, but you need 1 bite of Protein for every 5 bites of anything else. You need the protein now because she will start to loose most of her hair if not, as well as her body. The more protein you eat the more muscle she can gain, and the faster to repair her body. Don't get me wrong, veggies are great, but with the lap band you are not suppose to have a lot of Fiber at all....

[Hoosier Tom 0]

I know this sounds like a silly question, but please bear with us.

My girlfriend, who doesn't like computers, has asked me to post this question on her behalf.

She has only had one adjustment, and it seems to be doing a little for her, but only a very little, in terms of keeping her full longer *when she eats per the prescribed procedure*, i.e. Proteins first, no liquids, etc.

Here's the problem. She fully and freely acknowledges that she is absolutely not "working the band", i.e. she's not sticking to the diet. She's eating the unadvisable foods, she's eating "too much" of them, she's having liquids with her meals, and so on.

Now, we *know* this is not the advised course of action, so please no judgmental or shaming comments. But here's the question.

She wonders if she should get an adjustment anyway. The theory being that, even if she eats non-protein items like a salad, it will still help her a good bit, rather than the little bit of help she's getting now.

Is it true that you're fuller longer almost regardless of what you eat (excepting ice cream and the like) because there's less room for whatever you take in?

OK, I'll bite and be the proverbial bad guy.

Why did she even get the band in the first place? Yeah, I can understand someone slipping up every now and then and eating the wrong things, but when someone knowingly and willingly violates the rules of the band, then it is really hard for me to have sympathy for them. What that tells me is that 1.) they were not prepared for this journey to begin with; and 2.) they shouldn't have had the band placed until they were ready.

The psychologist that pronounced your girlfriend "ready" should find another line of work.

The band is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It is there to create a small pouch that will enable us to hold a miniscule amount of food, compared to what we were eating prior to having bariatric surgery. Now, with that tool, we can choose to eat the same kinds of crap that we ate before that got us into this mess, or we can choose to eat good, healthy foods that will enable us to shed the pounds that break down our hips, knees and give us high blood pressure, diabetes, and every other malady known to morbidly obese people.

My surgeon likes to call the band the "thinking persons weight loss surgery" because, unlike other procedures, having a band leaves you with every choice you had prior to surgery. It requires you to become smarter to make it succeed.

I like that.

Yeah, we all bend the rules every now and then and have a scoop of ice cream or something to that effect. But it is the exception, and not the rule.

The rules say Protein is a mainstay of our diets. Why? Because we want to lose weight the right way. Without Protein, the weight we lose is lean muscle mass. Protein keeps our lean muscle mass built up and helps ensure we lose the right way. The rules say we eat protein first. Why? In case we can't get anything else in, we've gotten our protein. The rules say we don't drink with our meals. Why? Because it washes everything we just ate straight through and it doesn't stay with us. The rules say we eat a certain amount of food at a sitting. Why? Prolonged overeating of amounts will stretch the pouch and negate any effect of the pouch, thus reducing/eliminating weight loss.

Rules. Now I remember why we have them... for structure and discipline.

Your girlfriend can run to her doctor (or every other fill doctor in the country, for that matter) and tighten that band until hell freezes over, but it still will not compensate for her poor behavior choices. Therein lies the key.

I'm sorry, but I've had this band for 5 years. I've been highly successful with my band. I've coached others along who have the band and have spoken at various support groups as well. You would not believe the numbers of people who approach me and attempt to justify poor behaviors and choices all in the name of an unwillingness to modify their lifestyles and once and for all -- get healthy! They want sympathy, but sympathy doesn't get the job done. It just tells them more of what they want to hear as opposed to telling them what they don't want to hear.

Your girlfriend has a choice to make. Nobody here can make it for her. Unfortunately for her, the main choice is not whether to go and get a fill. Yeah, she could probably use one, but it's not the primary need at this point. The choice is whether or not she wants to change her choices and modify her lifestyle or not. If not, she needs to rethink why she even got the band at all.

Yeah, some here are going to think this sounds harsh, but reality is oft times harsh when you take a step back and look at it in unvarnished terms. I'd rather be thought of in this manner now, and maybe have her thank me down the road because I opened her eyes than to pat her on the back and give her misinformation that only leads her further down a road of misery and lack of success.

The nutritionist should be her first stop, coupled with a therapist to help modify the behaviors. I'm not so worried about adjustments at this point. Mind you, I'm not saying one cannot enjoy the "sinful" pleasures every now and then, but if she is engaged in the true life/death struggle with weight that the majority of us are, those indulgences should be few and far between, based on her current behaviors and struggles.

I'll probably get bashed for this post, but so be it. Underneath the tough talk, I really am for your girlfriends success with her band. Good luck!

[Jachut 487]

not starting a hot topic or anything, but you need 1 bite of Protein for every 5 bites of anything else. You need the Protein now because she will start to loose most of her hair if not, as well as her body. The more protein you eat the more muscle she can gain, and the faster to repair her body. Don't get me wrong, veggies are great, but with the lap band you are not suppose to have a lot of fiber at all....

Sorry, but this makes NO sense at all. Your body's nutritional needs are exactly the same AFTER banding as before, meaning for good health and especially the health of your bowels, you STILL need 30 grams or so of fibre a day. There is no magic that happens in your body that suddenly means the only thing you have to worry about is protein, it still works the same way as it did before. You absolutely cannot afford to only eat protein and not even worry about fibre - or all the Vitamins, minerals and antioxidants that are in plant foods. Protein by itself will not sustain good health and nutrition, it is part of a balanced diet. We can debate how much you need of course, but we all agree you need it. But to say that you're not supposed to get fibre as a banded person is just plain incorrect.

You need exactly what you needed before. You may not get it all, with limited stomach capacity that becomes very hard and that's the choice you make when you decide to be banded. That's why eating the same thing day in day out is a very very bad idea, you need lots of VARIETY so you get adequate amounts of everything.

Yes, protein is important, but so is everything else. But Tom is very right, poor food choices are not fixed by tightening the band. But to worry that you're needing an adjustment because you're choosing to eat salad is ridiculous, salad is healthy and we need it! Just add some protein to the salad!

Edited December 6, 2008 by Jachut

[terilynn112 1]

OK, I'll bite and be the proverbial bad guy.

Why did she even get the band in the first place? Yeah, I can understand someone slipping up every now and then and eating the wrong things, but when someone knowingly and willingly violates the rules of the band, then it is really hard for me to have sympathy for them. What that tells me is that 1.) they were not prepared for this journey to begin with; and 2.) they shouldn't have had the band placed until they were ready.

The psychologist that pronounced your girlfriend "ready" should find another line of work.

The band is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It is there to create a small pouch that will enable us to hold a miniscule amount of food, compared to what we were eating prior to having bariatric surgery. Now, with that tool, we can choose to eat the same kinds of crap that we ate before that got us into this mess, or we can choose to eat good, healthy foods that will enable us to shed the pounds that break down our hips, knees and give us high blood pressure, diabetes, and every other malady known to morbidly obese people.

My surgeon likes to call the band the "thinking persons weight loss surgery" because, unlike other procedures, having a band leaves you with every choice you had prior to surgery. It requires you to become smarter to make it succeed.

I like that.

Yeah, we all bend the rules every now and then and have a scoop of ice cream or something to that effect. But it is the exception, and not the rule.

The rules say Protein is a mainstay of our diets. Why? Because we want to lose weight the right way. Without Protein, the weight we lose is lean muscle mass. Protein keeps our lean muscle mass built up and helps ensure we lose the right way. The rules say we eat protein first. Why? In case we can't get anything else in, we've gotten our protein. The rules say we don't drink with our meals. Why? Because it washes everything we just ate straight through and it doesn't stay with us. The rules say we eat a certain amount of food at a sitting. Why? Prolonged overeating of amounts will stretch the pouch and negate any effect of the pouch, thus reducing/eliminating weight loss.

Rules. Now I remember why we have them... for structure and discipline.

Your girlfriend can run to her doctor (or every other fill doctor in the country, for that matter) and tighten that band until hell freezes over, but it still will not compensate for her poor behavior choices. Therein lies the key.

I'm sorry, but I've had this band for 5 years. I've been highly successful with my band. I've coached others along who have the band and have spoken at various support groups as well. You would not believe the numbers of people who approach me and attempt to justify poor behaviors and choices all in the name of an unwillingness to modify their lifestyles and once and for all -- get healthy! They want sympathy, but sympathy doesn't get the job done. It just tells them more of what they want to hear as opposed to telling them what they don't want to hear.

Your girlfriend has a choice to make. Nobody here can make it for her. Unfortunately for her, the main choice is not whether to go and get a fill. Yeah, she could probably use one, but it's not the primary need at this point. The choice is whether or not she wants to change her choices and modify her lifestyle or not. If not, she needs to rethink why she even got the band at all.

Yeah, some here are going to think this sounds harsh, but reality is oft times harsh when you take a step back and look at it in unvarnished terms. I'd rather be thought of in this manner now, and maybe have her thank me down the road because I opened her eyes than to pat her on the back and give her misinformation that only leads her further down a road of misery and lack of success.

The nutritionist should be her first stop, coupled with a therapist to help modify the behaviors. I'm not so worried about adjustments at this point. Mind you, I'm not saying one cannot enjoy the "sinful" pleasures every now and then, but if she is engaged in the true life/death struggle with weight that the majority of us are, those indulgences should be few and far between, based on her current behaviors and struggles.

I'll probably get bashed for this post, but so be it. Underneath the tough talk, I really am for your girlfriends success with her band. Good luck!

Ok... I'm at a stall.... and I needed to read this today. Thank you for posting. I will be calling the nut monday morning. Maybe she can help me get over my stall.

teri

[Daisalana 33]

Good luck.. and someone is wrong, you DO need fiber.. in fact fiber helps you stay fuller longer, and helps with Constipation (which can be common when you reduce your food intake!). Don't reduce fiber.

[SlicedBread 0]

OK, I'll bite and be the proverbial bad guy ... I'll probably get bashed for this post ... I really am for your girlfriends success with her band. Good luck!

Thanks for the good wishes. You'll only get bashed a little by me.

You weren't the bad guy as much as the clueless guy. You didn't read the question.

As I clearly stated and implied in my question, we *already* had intimately, deeply painful personal knowledge of every single thing you said.

Our question was not about her shrink or about her nutritionist or what a bad person she is or how unready she was.

If she had read your message, all it would have done would have been to make her feel... say it with me, everybody ... ashamed. Yes, ashamed because she's not working the band. And she SHOULD be ashamed because, as well ALLLLL know, overeating is simply about will power. Right? Why don't fat people just eat less?

And this shame and sense of personal failure leads to ... anyone? anyone?... Thaaaaat's riiiiiight, emotional overeating. Thanks a lot. Really astute reaction you had there with your sage post.

If you really think it's about, (quoting your self-satisfied comment), "structure and discipline", you may be far less informed about the emotional component of this condition than you seem superbly proud to think.

You say you've coached people with their bands? You've spoken to groups? I shudder to think how many people went home after you "helped" them and felt bad enough about themselves, compared to your gloriously disciplined self, to binge.

Our situation may have touched a nerve for you, which may be why you responded as you did. If your issues are so close to the surface that you lash out at somebody else who reminds you of them, you may be more dangerous than helpful to others who are struggling. I ask you to think twice before you speak to other band patients. Maybe thrice.

I still hope to get help from the group, so I will redirect attention to our *actual* question.

Namely: We admit we're having trouble and that she wasn't really ready. We're trying to make the best of it now. Assume she eats exactly the same after a fill as she does now, i.e. not really working the band. If she gets the fill, will she still feel fuller longer or be prevented from overeating as much, because the tighter restriction does some work? Even when she eats something other than Protein? Even when she's not working the band, at that meal? Will there still be *some* appreciable benefit? Has anyone struggled with our same situation?

Sorry about the back-and-forth, everyone. Any helpful comments deeply appreciated.

[luluc 6]

Namely: We admit we're having trouble and that she wasn't really ready. We're trying to make the best of it now. Assume she eats exactly the same after a fill as she does now, i.e. not really working the band. If she gets the fill, will she still feel fuller longer or be prevented from overeating as much, because the tighter restriction does some work? Even when she eats something other than Protein? Even when she's not working the band, at that meal? Will there still be *some* appreciable benefit? Has anyone struggled with our same situation?

Sorry about the back-and-forth, everyone. Any helpful comments deeply appreciated.

maybe getting away from the mindset of "working the band" for a bit, would help and focus on a healthy diet one she can live with long term....which includes - Protein, fruits, veggies, complex carbs would be best for her.

i don't even know what working the band means to be honest, considering every dr has their own set of instructions - no 2 alike. i had 8 fills before i reached restriction; and along the way, each one allowed for smaller portions and kept me satisfied for longer periods of time. i also did not want to be so restricted that i could not each carbs such as whole grain breads, brown rice, Pasta. i want to eat all foods, i'm lucky to get 50-60grams of protein each day and have since day one. no issues with nutrition/health or loss of hair.

i don't eat perfect each and every day - i've let up on my fruits & veggies lately and i feel it .... so DH hit our farmers market today and loaded up. i still journal my food daily; because it helps me identify what i'm eating & how much....i felt a craving for a salad last night and looked back, it had been a while since having one. maybe her journaling her food would help?

[kjhack 3]

I personally like Hoosier Tom's comments. I think they helped me stay on track and think about my choices. Thanks Tom. And to your friend, best of luck.

[Jachut 487]

I agree with Lulu - eat a healthy diet and forget about being so obsessed with "working the band". Like she says, we all have different instructions. By Tom's definition, I dont work my band AT ALL. Yet here I am 10kg below my goal weight.

If you eat less and exercise a bit you'll lose weight. We can debate day is night, black is white, argue about Protein, fibre - none of it really matters so much to WEIGHT loss, more to what we believe affects our general health.

In the end,no matter how much people like to turn this into rules, regulations, Iron self will and its my way or the highway, if you eat less, you generally lose weight. It doesnt matter what you eat - 1200 calories a day and a bit of exercise and most people will drop weight.

Personally, I approached this as a new lifestyle. I try to make healthy choices, usually I do, but there's room for bad choices occasionally too. I am not interested in people's dont drink before meals, eat x grams of Protein, stay below 1000 calories per day rules. I ignore them completely and in fact most Australian surgeons dont really preach them either.

Seen from that perspective, perhaps she IS ready to start taking baby steps towards a healthy lifestyle. Success is all in the definition, she can view herself as a failure because she's not adhering to a strict set of rules or she can view herself as on the way to success because she's taken the very biggest step - getting banded - and is starting to try to sort through her issues.

She'll get there in the end as long as she doesnt sabotage herself with self hate for not sticking to what is really a dubious set of instructions anyway. I think surgeons and nutritionists are failing dismally to understand obesity by trying to encourage people to view the lapband as another strict diet.

[bambam31 168]

slicedbread... To directly answer your question, no doubt, additional fills will help your gf feel fuller with less food as it pertains to solid foods, no matter whether those solid foods are healthy food choices or not. So if right now she's eating two cheesburgers, bun and all, with large fries - after a fill she may only be able to eat 1 cheeseburger and small fries. She'll definitely benefit from a fill IMO. However, no additional restriction will be accrued in regards to liquid calories or "sliders" (like ice cream) from additional fills.

I solidly agree with Jacqui that the more restriction you have, the easier it is with time to make wiser food choices - so go for the fills!

So in the SHORT TERM, continue to get fills until a satisfied level of restriction is achieved. But know full well that good restriction will limit her ability to continue eating many unhealthy foods. Quite simply, she'll vomit them right back up. A few painfull events of getting food stuck will guide her to make better food choices. :biggrin: The band requires we pay attention, or it gives us not so subtle reminders....

But in the LONG TERM, Tom's response and experience cannot be ignored because, like it or not, he's painfully spot on accurate. Healthy food choices, lifestyle change, and intense - ever challenging exercise is the only way to achieve her long term goal. That's just the painfull truth and it cannot be rationalized away.

Brad

Edited December 8, 2008 by bambam31
addition

[bbjerseygirl 0]

You have gotten many responses to this thread which is great and I am not going to read them all. I apologize if I am repeating myself. Your friend has had only one fill which means she has had surgery not long ago.

She hasn't learned to break the bad habits yet and that comes with time. The good thing is she is aware of her mistakes and when she is ready, she will learn to implement the rules set forth for her to succeed. Sometimes it takes people mentally longer to work with the band. It is sort of like a mental game with themselves and to see how far they can challenge or push themselves.

I do feel she should get another adjustment too. The first adjustment obviously did not allow her the proper restriction. I had just had my 8th and still don't have perfect restriction, but I was pretty much disciplined and have lost. I think if she gets another adjustment or maybe 2 more she will do better.

You must also advise your friend even though she is not following the proper diet, it is not just a bad idea cause she wont lose weight. It could jeopardize the band and its proper placement. Overeating and eating the wrong foods could cause problems for her so she really shouldn't continue and should talk to her nutritionist or doctor. She can do this, she just needs some help and guidance. It is out there for her, she just has to seek it out and ask for it.

Tell your friend no to stress herself out or get discouraged cause it will make eating wrong worse. Good luck to her!